Is Kung fu the most advanced of all fighting methods?

[S.Teebas]

Is it? Becasue you hear a lot of people talk about kung fu being mroe advanced than WESTERN ARTS like boxing or wrestlin, or how about korean arts or a japanese arts?

[Shadow Dragon]

I think it is simply another sales speech:

Like:
The most effective.
The most traditional.
The deadliest.
The most authentic.
etc
etc
etc.

:p :p :p

Cheers.

[S.Teebas]

yeah..

well is it TOO advanced? like is a more simple combat method better employed in a real life situation?

[Shadow Dragon]

Hmm.

Lets see.

I compare MA systems/styles to a workers tool chest.

Many tools in there, some that are regularly used and some solely for special uses.

Also different craftsmen got differen tools in their chest.

Some tools are common and some specific to a Trade.

One Craftsmen can work with few tools, and can even make do without some tools.
Whereas another needs multiple tools and can't do a specific task without the specialised tool.

Both are skilled Craftsmen and top of their profession.

You need to find your own answer.

Cheers.

[bob10]

I guess any claim like that from anywhere has to be judged in the light of available evidence.
Where was it used
How was it used
Who uses it
How effective was it
etc etc

And what is meant by advanced? Efficient? Complicated? Comprehensive?

Boxing and wrestling are not martial systems as such, but methods drawn from systems. On the other hand I wouldn't underestimate a good boxer!

[scotty1]

You could go round all day with this one. A good boxer will use his art to a more advanced degree than a sh!t kung fu guy.

Just because there are more techniques doesn't make it more advanced. How many can you use effectively?

I can't believe someone's asked this question again. :)

[Former castleva]

I would never pop out and say that any system would be better than other,it´s all about how it works for you.Different people need different methods.
Kung-fu is a very broad thing so you could say it is more advanced in a certain way,for there are over 1000 styles (if that is what you mean)

[Kristoffer]

uh yeah.. :D

[MightyB]

"Is it? Becasue you hear a lot of people talk about kung fu being mroe advanced than WESTERN ARTS like boxing or wrestlin, or how about korean arts or a japanese arts?"

Wrestling and Boxing were actually first. Well, actually I've read somewhere that the Egyptions were first, then the Greeks, who spread it to India, then to China, then to...

Most European Martial Arts went out with gun powder, too bad, but hey, never bring a knife to a gun fight. The survivors have been heavily modified for sport, but are just as intricate, sophisticated, and just as- if not more- deadly than other martial arts. I'd put my money on an expert traditional European fencer (combat skills not just competition skills) facing any other swordsman any day. Thrust is way faster than a slash. Boxing used to include everything, and stay the heck away from a real Pancration guy.

Peace, love, and all that jazz...

the B

[KC Elbows]

It's more advanced than thumb wrestling, but less advanced than nuclear warheads.

This topic, however, is less advanced than thumb wrestling.

[SevenStar]

Western arts as well as eastern arts like thai boxing are as simple or as advanced as you make them. here's simple boxing:

jab, cross, hook, uppercut, overhand, straight.

slip, bob, weave.

not alot to it, right? add a roundhouse and some knees and elbows, and you have muay thai, right?


Now, get into more advanced concepts: distancing, timing, countering, footwork, proper mechanics, etc. the rabbit hole is deeper than some think.

[rogue]

Shadow Dragon are you nuts? How can you say that? I can't believe it.

(OK, I really agree with everything you said SD, but I'm afraid if we're caught agreeing we may fullfill one of the signs of the end times and something bad may happen. ;) )

I've sometimes wondered if some of the "advanced" ideas that some CMA ( WC and TCC ) have may get in the way of a student being effective.

[Crimson Phoenix]

I can't imagine anyone spending so much energy and time training and thinking otherwise...

[KC Elbows]

Yes, but what is the most advanced style of kung fu? And in that style, what is the most advanced lineage? And in that lineage, who is the most advanced practitioner? And once you find him or her, are they good at everything? Of course not, they're very skilled at the things that work for them.

If I were a midget, I'd do midget wrestling. Since I'm not, kung fu is what I do, and I like it. "Advanced" doesn't matter until I've got "basic" down pat, and I'm not completely sure that getting "basic" down pat isn't advanced anyway.

Whatever that means.

[HuangKaiVun]

The old traditional styles of kung fu were very limited.

Hsing Yi originally had 5 fists. Baguazhang originally had 2 moves. Lohan Fist originally had 18 postures. Seng Men originally had 36 moves (some repeated).

The consensus among older generation styles is that if you have too much complexity in a system, it creates too much confusion and stagnation in a freeflow combat setting.

Also, just because it's lesser in number doesn't mean it's any less sophisticated. Most of those older styles have multiple ways of using those moves, though the simple solution is always favored over the complex one.

[Shadow Dragon]

Originally posted by rogue
I've sometimes wondered if some of the "advanced" ideas that some CMA ( WC and TCC ) have may get in the way of a student being effective.

In my Opinion, yes, they do.

Especially in TCC with the Chi, Fa-Jing and other ideas.

Both styles I studied hardly ever talked about Chi., Dan-tien breathing, etc.
Even Jing are not mentioned until the student has reached an intermediate level.
To a certain degree I also blame the easy access to MA related publications.
Which cam really confuse a student as he often cannot differentiate between a low level concept and a more advanced one.

Cheers.

[red5angel]

Of course Kungfu is the most advanced form of fighting you fool! Look at the facts, the Chinese created gunpowder, that changed the face of fighting for ever. They have always been more advanced then western countries and they have thousands of styles of kungfu.

What were you thinking, you must be a grappler........



















;)

[MightyB]

The Chinese may have invented gunpowder, but it was the Europeans that showed 'em how to use it.

[red5angel]

Point to MightyB!

[dre]

You mean it's not to scare off ghosts?

[rogue]

Even Jing are not mentioned until the student has reached an intermediate level. I was learning opposite of you, what are the odd of that?:D

Heres' a quote from the sparring group we used to have...
Kickboxer: I kicked your a$$. (laughing)
WC Player: But you never got my centerline. (laughing)
KB:The hell with your centerline, the rest of you was mine.

[scotty1]

All sensible responses, excluding Crimson Phoenix:)

[Crimson Phoenix]

LOL :D

[scotty1]

Tee hee:D

[MightyB]

Heres' a quote from the sparring group we used to have...
Kickboxer: I kicked your a$$. (laughing)
WC Player: But you never got my centerline. (laughing)
KB:The hell with your centerline, the rest of you was mine.

:D

That was awesome Rogue

Here's one that I actually heard:

"yeah, but did you see how bad his form was when he was kicking me?"









The B

[S.Teebas]

heres another quote:

WC guy: this is chi sau
Kickboxer: ok (punches WC guy in head and laughes)
WC: ok (smashes kickboxer)
Kickboxer: Ahh.. (cries like a baby)

[Royal Dragon]

Is Kung fu the most advanced of all fighting methods?

Reply]
Duh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D

I think the Advanced stuff is only a hinderance if it is taught to early. On the other hand, Chinese styles (Especially the internals) have some of the most advanced power generation methods of any art. The problem is it takes so darn long to ingrain them to the point where they are second nature.

I feel it's better to learn a simple fighting system FIRST, to get you going right away, and then work on the more advanced mechanics down the road when they can be used to improve what you are already doing.

[guohuen]

A good plan. And as usual I fell into it by accident.