Fundamentals?

[DelicateSound]

There seems to be a growing concensus in the Martial Art world over the whole Art VS Art debate [finally!].

i.e: Every style has its speciality, and that in a fight it is "the man not the art"; that the practitioner must be able to make the art work for him.


A few stereotyped examples :D
*The BJJ guy has to be able to take his opponant to the ground.
*The WC guy should get in range and keep the centerline.
*The Chung Moo Quan-Do guy must jump off an 11-storey drop to escape.


You get the idea. :)


My point is, in every art irrelevant of the "method" of fighting, there are skills that are fundamental to the practitioner's ability to make his art work, skills that will help the practitioner.

e.g:

*Physical fitness.
*Flexibility.
*Conditioning/Ability to take punishment.
*Ability to release power of the strike/throw/move.
*Ability to use strength.
*Ability to remain calm and in control.



Anyone disagree? Or even better can you think of any more?


:)

[DelicateSound]

And on a further note, look around your school. The guys who are at the "top", that you know would hand your ass to you on a plate. Yes, THOSE guys. Do they seem to have these fundamental skills?

In every school I've been to they did.

Observe the same in legendary fighters, MMA successes etc.

Would you say that these characteristics [esp. under pressure] are as important as the learning of techs. and applications themselves?

[KC Elbows]

I'd say I agree. The best fighters at the schools I've gone to followed those rules, except the chung moo do thing, as it was held on the ground floor.

For instance, all three of the best six elbows fighters I know are constantly on the offensive, and are good at breaking down their opponent's structure.

The good longfist fighter I know is excellent at keeping things at his range.

The good wing chun guy I know is good at getting into his range and staying there.

The good karate guy I know is good at approaching the brick, psyching out the brick, and breaking the brick.[OK, I made that guy up, but the others are real, and I know there's good karate out there].

[No_Know]

" there are skills that are fundamental to the practitioner's ability to make his art work, skills that will help the practitioner."

There is the person working at the art that develops skills.

Without the art the person would not have the motivation to improve in so-many areas.

Without the art the individual woud not get the fighting skill.

Factory workers are strong. Dancers are flexible. Aerobics instructors are physically fit. Nuns, priests and monks have an ability to remain calm and in control. Strikes throws moves basically don't exist outside of the art (for the purposes of what you might comprehend). But even these are traits of the arts they practice. I say arts you might say jobs or work or trade.

It's the individual not the art. If you really believe that bring-up examples or some-such of Martial artistic Individuals whith no Relation to Martial artistic training.

There are people who do not practice They are in an art but not representative of the art. They more represent their society. The art produces. When the art is followed.-ish.

The individuals within an art can improve in ways.Yet, it Is the Art. And the person willing to be an artist can represent the Art. Otherwise they are merely people getting something from what they're doing.

Perhaps some such some might say whatever whatever very whatever

[dre]

. . .and of course for CMA one of those fundamentals would be weight distribution, correct? Which lends strength to strikes that would have much less if executed independently of the rest of the body.

[Ralek]

Actually you don't need any of the qualities that you listed. The definatley help but they are not as important as technique.

A good example of this is Royce Gracie a Brazilian Jiujitsu stylist. He is not very strong and has a history of being easily injured. In the UFC he was always outweighed by an average of 50 pounds. But he beat everyone. Ken Shamrock outwiehged Royce by 50 pounds yet Royce choked him out. Dan Severn was a former Olympic Gold medal wrestler and outweighed Royce by 80 pounds but Royce choked him out with a triangle. Groin attacks were legal in these fights. The only rules were no biting or eye gouging. Royce beat Jason Delucia a Shaolin kung fu 5 animals stylist with an armbar. Royce beat Keith Hackney a Chinese Kenpo stylist with an armbar from the guard. Royce has been outwieghed in every single fight he fought in the UFC.

Royce had no physical attributes. Yet using technique he was able to win against huge guys who were in extrememly good shape and really strong and huge and world class fighters. (like Ken Shamrock and Dan Severn)

[Felipe Bido]

Royce would CHOKE Royce...


Sh¡t..he's tough...

[CD Lee]

Quoted by who? Ralek?!?!?!? no sh1t...



Royce had no physical attributes.


Uhhhh....bullsh**. Royce has great physical attributes for fighting, especially for BJJ style fighting. He is fast, limber, has a great weight distribution, great fighting weight, and is much much stronger than you think. He has a great balance of mass and height with very limber and quick reflexes.

Why in the world do you think he has no positive physical attributes for FIGHTING? Have you ever tried to hang on to a 30 lb. terrier that wanted to run or tried to put a cat under water that did not want to go under?

Is this THE Ralek??? In the words of John McEnroe, " You CANNOT be serious!"

[DelicateSound]

Royce had no physical attributes.

And Tyson was a one-armed leper.

Now back to the original topic guys.....

[HuangKaiVun]

No, I agree with Ralek.

Technique - of which physical attributes play no small part - is the most important.

And stop flaming him, guys. He's not here to make trouble anymore.


Fundamentals are everything.

That's because done properly, fundamentals are what save the butt in combat or elsewhere.

In my school, we focus almost exclusively on fundamentals. Our advanced concepts are but rearrangements of our most basic concepts.

[SevenStar]

Actually, I agree with him too *WTF??!??!* Royce does have good attributes, but as far as height, weight, etc. He was almost always at the disadvantage. It can be extremely hard to pull even simple grappling techs on someone that outweighs you by 50 lbs if your technique is off.

[Lao Shan]

Without good foundations you cannot execute technique properly.

[SevenStar]

as far as what? a person doesn't need a good solid stance, good strikes, etc. to make a chin na tech work, or basic self defense techs. foundation definitely makes the tech stronger but is not required for some techs.

[Lao Shan]

Foundation is more than stances. Chin na cannot be practical without practice. Practice builds foundation. Technique is built off of this.

[Ralek]

SevenStar. Welcome to the BJJ side.

CD Lee. Royce has no physical attributes. The man can only bench 155 pounds. Kids in high school can bench more than that. I'm not making fun of Royce i'm just saying that he is not a physical person. He relies on technique. Techniuqe is not influenced by physical attributes, it is in your mind.

[dre]

Techniqe IS fundamentals.

[Ralek]

Kung fu IS ineffective in real fights.

[Felipe Bido]

Royce would CHOKE this thread

[dre]

I don't see anything holding you here Rael.

[DelicateSound]

You are all a bunch of thick ****ing morons.

At what point did I mention height and weight? Knobheads.

I'm on about stuff like power generation, calmness under pressure and ability to act decisively.

Ralek says "Royce doesn't have any of those.." So Royce isn't calm under pressure? Doesn't act decisively? Can't generate power?

Read the ****ing question you loser.

i.e: Traits that are UNIVERSAL aims in all Martial Arts

This isn't some ****ty BJJ VS Kung Fu argument.

This place is just a hive of trolls and losers.



:rolleyes:

[CD Lee]

Ralek. Royce has good physical attributes. Just not for a bodybuilder or brick smasher. He is more like Kung Fu. Limber and fast, and relies on technique not muscle. We have already mentioned the BJJ uses principles from the internal KF styles. Welcome to Kung Fu Ralek. Good to have you on board finally.

[HuangKaiVun]

Kung fu IS effective in real fights.

I guess Ralek is here to troll again.

Too bad I can't try him.

[DelicateSound]

Yawn.

Ah hell, just keep trolling. Why not, you morons ruin every other thread....