Efficiency and Economy

[red5angel]

Another thread got me thinking about this. I have a lot of opinions, strong ones sometimes :) on WC and how it is taught and utilized now a days. One of the most glaring problems that comes to mind is efficiency. Wing Chun is supposed to be efficient, quick and effective right? How do you get to be efficient? Through precision of movement, and control. Why flail away with your arms when you don’t need to? Pay attention to what you are doing, and ask yourself if each technique can be honed down, refined until your limbs barely move, and move only when they need to. Too much flailing going on, a lot of flying hands and arms. While Bui Jee is a neat form, and has its purpose, SLT is what we should be shooting for, nice and tight and close to the body.

[black and blue]

I try not to chase hands

I try to take the quickest route to the target

I try to hold and work the center line (with hands 'and' feet)

I try to end the confrontation in as few motions as possible
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With any luck this will result in my WC being as economical as possible :)

Oh, and like my giff I keep a little hammer up my sleeve! Economy in a real fight is a blunt, heavy object bumping someone's head:D

[Mithrandir]

Good Points Red,

I don't know the third form so I have no grounds for personal judgement on that point. In my limited experience I have yet to reach true efficiency. :) I do believe it will be attained through consistantly training precisely day in and day out. Wing Chun is a never-ending journey and will lead one (if one lets it) to finer and finer degrees of precision. That is the beauty of the art we study...it just keeps getting better and better as long as one approaches it honestly with a student's mindset.

Just some thoughts

[AndrewP]

Well, being shown and doing and examining Bil Jee has shown me one important lesson: GO BACK AND DO FIRST FORM!! No exagerration. Go back, analyze, make drills, shadow box, work with parameters with only SLT moves and principles. I was surprised. The more advanced I am getting in my many years :) (2.5 years) the more I see SLT is where it's at. Everything else complements first form and doesn't necessarily "advance". In my first year I thought I knew 75% of SLT. In my second I though I knew 25%. Now I think I have "advanced" to a 15% understanding of the First Form. Practice and then you practice.

My two cents worth.

Andrew P

[[Censored]]

Which of the five elements is the best, and which should we prefer over others?

How can the longest movement be the most efficient?

[reneritchie]

Is chocolate an element? Even if it is, I don't think Red should be allowed to answer 'chocolate'. Or 'caramel' either. Heck, anything that helps for the creation/destruction cycle of dessert. And no trans-uranics either. I hate them trans-uranics.

RR

[red5angel]

Censored, prefer none, practice them all.....

I think that it is something anyone should be addressing while in training. I am always trying to look at what I am doing and ask myself, can this be done more efficiently? Can this motion be reduced and simplified to make it even more efficient then it is at the moment? How far do I have to go or how hard do I have to hit?
I thing as wingchun people all of us should be striving to shave away at the excess and hone it down to a fine point, make it so we dont have to waste any energy in doing what it is we do. I think the economy and efficiency is a huge advantage to WC, and I think if we can make it even more so then we are headed in the right direction.

AndrewP, well said on the "understanding" of SLT!? :)

[yenhoi]

economy and effeciency, 2 sides:

training:

Do your basics. Study the SLT. Study the Chum Kil, (when I get there) study the Bil Jee. Study Mook Jong form.

Attempt not to waste time, or energy in your training.


fighting:

relationship between yourself and the opponent. Is there really a opponent? Economy and effeciency here doesnt necessarily mean perfection, or the most economical and most effecient, it means concerning your relationship with your opponent.

If you throw a wild haymaker, and it lands somehow, and your opponent is no longer awake, then you have been very economical and effecient. The same as if you had used a straight punch, the opponent is no longer an issue, effeciency is gained.

[[Censored]]

Red, so do you prefer SLT over Bil Jee (which is merely "neat" :confused: ), or not? Make a definitive statement.

[red5angel]

"Attempt not to waste time, or energy in your training." Well said Yenhoi.

Censored, I dont prefer either, they are both important but SLT is often over looked once one begins to learn the other two forms. In many of the schools I have visited and with the people I have trained with, It has been my experience that people tend not to do SLT daily once they begin to learn the other two forms because they are "more fun", percieved to be more dynamic or more active. This is what I am talking about, SLT is compact, still, comparatively, and that is what we should work at with our wingchun. Make sense?
By the way, dont misconstrue or misquote me on BJ being "neat", I think all the forms are very cool, but talking to wingchun people, they often times pay much attention to BJ, before learning it because it is the "mystical" or "deadly" form of wingchun, after learning it because it is "more fun" to do it then slow and compact SLT.