Leopard Strike/open hand

[zen_celt]

I was working on a self defense technique in my Karate class the other day and it invloes a Shotai(palm heel strike) to the ribs. As I practiced it on my attacker, I naturally struck using my palm, but my fingers were clenched into a leopardf ist as I had learned in Kung Fu. My sensei told me to never strike like that again, and I was told by a class mate that the reason for this is that if you miss with the palm, you could hit at a bad angle with your second knuckle(not the one you use with a fist but the one after it) and hurt your hand. Now, I understand about the bad angle and all that but I figure it's hard to screw that up. Especially when the Shotai hand formation feels awkward to me and I think I'm more likely to get injured with that than the leopard fist palm strike. Maybe I'm just messing them both up, I don't know.
Any thoughts on this?


As a side note, would those of you who use the leopard strike mind giving me some idea on how to condition it so I can utilize the regular pointed version of it in a fight without fear of breaking my wrist or hand?
-ZC

[Former castleva]

It´s funny thing you thought about that as...
Karate´s kuma-te "bear hand" looks very similar to leopard fist.
There is almost no difference (maybe thumb is tucked more to side of palm in leopard fist...) but ribs are one of the basic targets for leopard fist´s repetitive smashes.
Kuma-te can be and is used with similar hand form but strikes with palm heel (but I think it can and should be used in leopard fist manner,excellent for solar plexus. To lessen the amount of confusion I shall note that there are similar hand maneuvers used in different arts and at times in same arts,it freaks me out at times)
I don´t know why to use a palm heel to ribs actually.
Even basic closed fist (seiken) or especially empi (elbow),tetsui-uchi (hammerfist) or even phoenix eye as an example would make a better deal.



"As a side note, would those of you who use the leopard strike mind giving me some idea on how to condition it so I can utilize the regular pointed version of it in a fight without fear of breaking my wrist or hand?"
Common sense of using it only those specific weak targets it is meant for.
Besides that,I use phoenix eye wall/post to condition my phoenix eye(s).
Basically a huge wooden board with soft padding targets in it (to keep it safe yet effective,with targets at different heights and angles) BTW,thanks for the one who first introduced this traditional phoenix eye conditioning tool to me in this forum that yun fen (PEfist players use)
My straightforward logics goes that as you use basically same areas (second knuckles of fingers) in both striking maneuvers,similar conditioning method could also come to play with leopard fist as striking a bag with it is like calling injury (not to mention I practiced it on a tree trunk...don´t do that)

[KC Elbows]

Are there chin na's with the leopard fist?

[fa_jing]

We use side-palm to ribs all of the time in
Wing Chun. It definitely will hurt the opponent. You need to get your fingers out of the way so that they do not reduce the impact.

[CLFNole]

To condition for the panther fist do push-ups in the panther fist postition. Start against a wall for a while then gradually work you way down to the floor using your knees down in the beginning if need be. Remember practice the push-ups with the panther fist in both vertical and horizontal positions.

After a while your wrists will gain the proper strength required. Then try hitting a bag however be careful.

As pointed out earlier panther fist strikes are generally for soft tissue areas, however the wrists must be conditioned for effective use.

Peace.

[zen_celt]

In the style of Karate I'm currently studying(Bushidokan), we have only 7 strikes, blocks, kicks, and stances. The strikes utilized are : Seiken(2knuckle fist) Uraken(backfist) Tetui(Hammer Fist) Hiji(elbow) Shotai(palm heel) Shuto(knife hand) Haito (ridge hand). we use variations on all of these but it's just adirectional change for the most part, i.e. reverse elbow(strike backwards with an elbow).

The point, I guess, of the Shotai in this particular self defense is as a follow up. It's in response to a left jab. Your first attack is a shuto to the ribs, followed up by the shotai, and then a knee to the same spot...

I just couldn't figure out why it's so awful to use a leopard style palm strike instead of their version of a palm strike(excluding the "this is how it's done HERE" mentality).

As far as the leopard fist being used as other than a palm strike, i.e. punch, I'm curious about its uses. I realize it's primarily a soft target weapon, yet when I was reading a Bujinkan ninjutsu book, it said that the leopard fist strike was a common one in the Togakure Ryu and was used to knock opponents backwards. Now, I'm no ninjutsu master or anything but I assume it means as a strike other than palm heel. Any Bujinkan students want to clarify this for me please?
I'm curious as to how this is done without injuring the wrist etc.

CLFNole- About the leopard fist pushups, how do you do those? Are you on your second knuckles doing them because I can't keep up on my fist that way. It seems awfully hard just based on balance.
As far as strike training, I've tried using it against a heavy bag and I had to either hit very softly or watch my wrist crumble. Am I doing something wrong? I mean, most any other strike I execute on the bag is just fine, assuming you exclude my lack of power, of course, but thise one gives me trouble.
thanks for the responses guys
-ZC

[CLFNole]

zen_celt:

Due to the way the middle knuckle protrudes you have to angle the panther fist slightly. In the vertical position you work the middle knuckle to the pinky knuckle more or less. In the horizontal position the index, middle and third knuckle. What I do is press up straight at the top and put the focus primarily on the middle knuckle and then angle and bit on the descent.

The reason punching the bag isn't working for you is because your wirst is not conditioned and strengthened correctly.

I am a choy lay fut practioner and the chop choy (panther fist) is one of out trademarks. That being said many students can't even throw one is actuality only in their forms. Conditioning the panther fist and learning to do panther fist push-ups will allow one to actual hit something without hurting the wirst.

Work gradually then use a softer punching bag then graduate to a heavy bag.

I did the push-ups against the wall for nearly 3-4 months before i started doing real push ups on the floor. So be patient.

Peace.

[No_Know]

Missing a palm heel strike with a Leopard fist hand holds the muscles of the hand and arm tighter than if in palm fingers straight~ formation. You would be more likely to pull muscles~ if you missed that strike in Leopard fist formation.

Hitting takes a while, You should allow your body to be used to the shock. Very light to start. Be Appropriate.

[zen_celt]

I used to study CLF myself, that's why I use the chop choy somewhat automatically. I just never got the wrist strength etc. for a straight forward strike to any targets but soft ones. As always, more practice!
Thanks for the description of the pushups. I'll try those.
-ZC

[Former castleva]

Thanks for telling zen_celt.
I understand.Your style is a bit hard on the ribs,huh.
:)

[TaoBoy]

Originally posted by KC Elbows
Are there chin na's with the leopard fist?

Maybe you're thinking of the Eagle Claw - looks a little like a Leopard Fist but is used for grasping not striking.