Connecting Energy

[Scotorabie]

I have a question for everyone: How do you understand connecting energy? ie what is your experience of it, how do you produce it, use it, and maintain it during practice and application of Taijiquan?

[HuangKaiVun]

Sense what your opponent does.

Then do what he doesn't WANT you to do to him.

Practice this by doing the Taiji solo sets and sparring freeform.

[Prairie]

Well.... I must say that I've got a long way to go to be competant at what I'm about to write, but here goes....

I believe that to connect to an opponent, one must be able to be sensitive by touch how the opponent's body is moving and stabilizing. Some folks might call this "listenning energy." I have no idea why it's considered an energy when it seems like it's more of a skill (but maybe that's another topic) Of course to "listen" to the opponent one must be relaxed. And to stay connected one must understand what the opponent might be trying to do such that one can follow the motion appropriately. I believe that the important part here is the ability to "listen", but it's all tied together.

As for practicing to connect, I think it vital to put your hands on someone and try. One can learn lessons from solo form work, but feeling what an opponent is doing isn't one of them.

[HuangKaiVun]

I disagree on the solo form stuff, Prairie.

By doing the solo form well, a person becomes familiar with what an opponent might do.

Also, doing the solo form properly teaches a person about his body and his limitations. Constant solo form practice helps a person FEEL his energy in relation to the environment.

A fighter can't sense somebody else's energy if he can't even sense his own.

[Scotorabie]

Huang, I'm afraid I agree with Prairie in that although solo form work has significant value in terms of personal development, its martial benefits are seriously dwarfed by partner work. I also believe (from my own experience) that the form is more likely to provide the benefits you describe once a great deal of push-hands and other training has been done. In my view, solo practice is more relevant as exercise than as a means to improve application directly. I also believe the stimulus of another being's energy is what develops the connective sensation to begin with, rather than the form producing it through practice.

Also, I have a question for Prairie on his view of connectivity being a skill in that I would like a more complete explanation of how such skill originates, since to me it has always felt like a structural adjustment producing direct sensation.

[Prairie]

First of all, Prairie is a she. With that minor thing out of the way, I'll continue. :)

HuangKaiVin: I agree that one can (and should) view the solo form practice as a kind of shadow boxing. One can visualize what the opponent may do in a situation and figure out how the form applies. Also, I agree that one can learn proper alignments and relaxation that one requires to properly sense what the opponent is doing.

Scotorabie: At the root of it, whether we call it "energy" or "skill" doesn't matter. I suspect that we are referring to the same aspect of our art. However, I believe that there is skill involved with achieving proper alignments while being suitably relaxed to sense the different tensions in an opponent's body. I believe (as Huang said earlier) that this skill originates with being able to sense one's own body. This requires relaxation, alignment, and concentration of the mind to feel. Perhaps this is where the skill originates - with relaxation, alignment, and concentration. I don't know for sure of course - because I have certainly not acheived any great ability at this.

The topic was on connecting with an opponent. Concentrating on the sensations of touch to guage an opponent's current mechanical state is the next step that requires all that is needed to sense one's own body plus a great deal of understanding on how to interpret the signals that your senses are giving you. To connect in this sense I believe could be called a skill.

I'm not sure if I answered any questions or just raised new ones...

[Kuanti]

As I have recently learned, before you can hear others you must quieten yourself (i.e. relax/sung). The solo form as well as standing practice will help to achieve this.

[Walter Joyce]

While the solo form and standing can and do enable ones innate sense of being, or proprioception, partner work is the next phase for developing the ability to sense anothers energy, or movement.

Too many people have fallen into the "form and standing is enough to develop martial skill" trap. Clarity of thought and purpose suggests that the next stage after self-awareness and alignment while still or moving (standing and form work) is partner work, building from the simple, basic pushhands, to the final stage, free fighting.

The care with which one progesses through the intermediate stages (two handed pushing, walking pushing, two person forms and drills, and rou shou, I study ba gua as well) will determine the end result in regards actual level of fighting ability, and method of fighting applied.

Thats my $.02.

[Scotorabie]

Prairie: Sorry if I seemed a bit sexist there;). Your explanation makes a great deal more sense to me know, as like all things improved experience generates increased proficiency with what you are trying to do (in this case, keep your body and mind under the right conditions to perform connection with another person).

I have a question for Kuanti, in that I would like to know more specifically how you understand the results of practice such as form and post-training in the production of these qualities. For instance, how do you feel that these methods change yourself in to being able to do these things at a functional level?

[HuangKaiVun]

Who are these people that fall under this "form and standing is enough to develop martial skill" trap of yours, Walter Joyce?

In all my years of training in martial arts (10+), I have NEVER met a real kung fu man who said that quote - or anything like it.

Definitely in Taijiquan I've never met anybody who claimed that.


If a person practices the form right, he can get in and out of postures smoothly and efficiently.

Being able to adjust to situations is of paramount importance in a fight, where an opponent usually is trying to do something OTHER than what you're trying to do.

Going against the post provides a measure of passive resistance that helps straighten out one's posture. By testing one's posture against the post, a fighter can detect weaknesses in his structure and address them before an opponent does.

[Walter Joyce]

I had a feeling you'd respond to this in your usual fashion. I hate to pull seniority on you HKV, but in my 20 plus years of training, especially the last 5 of internal, I have heard and seen many taiji people who fall under this paradigm, so much so that it is what I call a common complaint about taiji teachers. You may want to check threads about taiji and self-defense, legitimacy of teachers, the list goes on and on.

Anticipating what you may say, no, I do not fall under that heading, but after over 20 years of training, I have learned to listen more than I speak, and read more than I write.

Your reply fails to address the benfits of partner training.

My assertion was not a radical departure from the previous 3, read them and you'll see it is an attempt to consolidate the thinking contained in them.

[Scotorabie]

Huang, the point of me starting this thread was for me to try and gain as much information on this topic in Taiji as possible from other knowledgable practitioners. I value your opinion on training methods as much as anyone else's. However, in my opinion, there is no real accurate, quantitative way for anyone with an opinion based on "such and such a training strategy works and such and such doesn't" due to the fact that to truly study any such training and its function, you would have to gain more objective insight by means of scientific study (which, as far as I know, has never been done to any degree of decency for our art). Basically, I believe everyone is entitled to an opinion and that unless you have created a massive string of laboratory experiments in which you have analyzed the two contrasting strategies of solo vs partner work totally in depth, your statements concerning their value or lack thereof are rhetorical since they have no grounding in objective experience.

[Kuanti]

First off I completely agree that standing practice and solo form are not enough alone to develope martial skill. But to develop good sensitivity to your partener (and therefore good martial skills) you must first loose the tension within ourselves before you can sense it in others. Standing practice and solo form are good ways to achieve this important first step.

I am just a beginner and this is my understanding from what I have been taught and from discussions with others.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Interesting perspectives... For me personally, based on "my" experience, forms and other solo practices are the foundation work that supports the intended application of interaction .. interaction is what the Tai Chi symbol represents (Yin/Yang). Like the symbol, we are meant to interact (no one is an island). First we train ourselves to know ourselves, then we train ourselves to know others..

The connecting energy is always present, we train ourselves to acquire the skill of using it.. It has been several years since i have pushed hands with opened eyes.. the skills acquired from closing one's eyes while pushing are, by "my" experience, supereior. This has been the best method i have found for expanding my own skills at using connecting energies. There are no deceptions with eyes closed, the energies you sense are clear in their "intent".

While solo practice is supremely valuable, intensely rewarding, and essential.. it is no substitute for interacting with other living energies.. you can swing a bat all day long, but.. until someone throws a breaking fast-ball across the plate, the intended use of the bat is unrealized.

Listening energies are not only useful in combat applications, but is other areas as well. I train couples to do flat-circle drills while discussing relationship matters. While interacting in this way, whenever one or the other touches on a sensitive issue it is apparent in a change of "energy", a change that can be felt. Then, the couples can be sensitive to their partners issues that may have previously been hidden by the deception of words alone.

Ultimately, it is a matter of personal perspective.. Be well..

[Ray Pina]

hitting hand ... sticking hand ... pushing hand ... hitting hand

[HuangKaiVun]

Spoken like a NOVICE, Walter Joyce.

My insistence on doing MORE than solo training is clear here. I talk about the benefits of post training and the importance of free sparring, yet you think that "fails to address the benfits of partner training?"

I am stunned that a man of 20 years training fails to realize that post training and free sparring do not fall under the "benefits of partner training".


Scotorabie, you asked questions and were given answers based on traditional teaching. They worked for me, and they worked for my sifus and their sifu.

Don't get mad at me for answering them.

[Walter Joyce]

HKV
Ever hear the adage don't argue with idiots lest you become one? That will explain why I will not respond to you in the future.

[HuangKaiVun]

Thanks for sparing me the futility of arguing with you, then.

Any internal man who trains 20+ years and doesn't know what post training and sparring is supposed to accomplish - I have no reply for that.