ATTN: yik-wah-tik

[premier]

It really makes me sad to see that you constantly try to rip the CLF family apart by trying to discredit Chan family CLF, Chan Yong Fa and the past masters. You do this in most of your posts and for no obvious reason. Please explain. Why?

[yik-wah-tik]

ok so you want me to explain huh?

i will say this first. i will back a chan family clf member before anyone else outside our system, but yes i do have problems with chan family. remember this is only my personal feelings.

for one, the simple fact that a chan family sifu had the nerve to ask my classmate if he wanted to be corrected in his hung sing choy lee fut. we are not chan family choy lee fut, so how can he correct us? (and your problem with this is what?)

two, the chan family has always claimed we (the hung sing side) have always had our history wrong in regards to jeong hung sing. the hung sing family all tell the exact same story, and the chan family try to sidetrack us with their version.
how can all hung sing be wrong?

three, the chan family sifu's have all thrown around their weight because of their bloodline to chan heung. so what!!!!!!! hung sing people don't ever do that. i personally have not thrown my weight when it comes to our clf. i only wanted to tell our side of the story. and again, the chan family come out to discredit!!!!!

four, the chan families story always changes. 1-there were originally were 148 sets???????? then mysteriously there are now 195 and still counting, and all are supposed to be sets passed down by chan heung???????????

five, if chan family would stop trying to discredit, and stop throwing around their weight, then maybe all choy lee fut can survive together.
buk sing and hung sing never start trouble, which allows the chan side to run freely and make any claims they want. i personally feel the hung sing and buk sing sides need to speak up a little louder. although we are starting to speak up and i do mean "we". i decided to openly express my gripes and i am sure you will try to shoot them down.

you know, we might get somewhere if you chose to listen to me and not brush me off. if you have not put in the work then you would not understand my position. if you do not understand my position then it makes no sense for me to keep trying to explain to you. all you have to do is re-read my posts and take an outsider look and try and understand why i come on like that with the chan family.

fran :eek:

"graceful staff flies above like a dragon wiggling it's tail-strong fist releases out like a tiger raising its head"

[iron_silk]

Well...

A good master of kung fu can always help a learning individual get better without knowing the system, but by the mere experience and knowledge that one person knows. But since it's all CLF and all moves are essential the same if not similar. Offering help and insight should be no offense unless the true intent is not to help another person. So if you don't want help then fine, it's simple as that.
Now since i wasn't there I am not going to make any actual right and wrong statements, but from the reasons which you seem to state is some what frivolous.
I am not disputing what occured with you and other family members but you say "hung sing" people don't throw their weight around but perhaps not all CLF family members either.
It's unfortunate that there is not wittness or documentation of their bad behaviour towards "hung sing" (well ones that I am privy to)so it's hard for anyone to take side when only you are the one throwing your definitive version around.
I am not saying you are not right but your clear dislike towards chan family can bring people to believe your research to be bias and unfair.
And regards to number of sets changing...I have heard most of the sets usually remain within the real "Chan" lineage, but slowly now they are willing to bring out and share.
It is traditional custom of masters holding something back for their own family, so it "might" not be that far fetch.
Finally...
Now I really do feel that people should quit bringing this up and bothering you with it since we all agreed that it's getting us no where.

Sorry for being nosey, but I felt it's a public forum and "What the hey!" right?

[iron_silk]

and it would be hard to believe a person compared to a historical belief that's been transfered for so many years right?
Perhaps the Chan Family is as strong in their belief of the history as presented to the world right now, and any attempt of others trying to skew the actual history is trying to make a name for themselves...as you and/or Hung sing members feel that Chan Family is pushing you guys down?

And well apparently other people (ie on this forum) know of your secret evidence as well? letters was it? I am not sure.

[yik-wah-tik]

for one, i don't know why i am responding to you on post meant for me from premier. i do understand this is a public forum, so i guess i'll respond to your comments.

it is clear that you are a chan family member. next, i did not say all chan family members throw their weight around, only some elders. secondly, all the elders i know are too old fashioned and keep their mouths shut with a who cares attitude. but i stand up for our family because i care.

if the chan family is so strong in their beliefs, then why do they fight our story so strongly? if we are wrong, then let us be wrong, right? but there is an underlying reason they have to dispute our story as hung sing. thirdly, all the claims chan family has made about jeong yim has not been backed up after my posting of revelant questions.
as elders, they should be able to answer those questions.

you say my research is biased and unfair, if you do not totally know who i am and what i am planning to do, then i couldn't expect you to understand my position. but in the near future you will.

i personally don't have any problems with the chan family gung fu, just their position on the hung sing thing!

also, i am not the only one who feels the way i do, and i am speaking about high ranking elders too, but i care enough to speak out.

many factions of gung fu have this type of quarrel about their history i.e. hung ga, and i will make ****ed sure our version of our history will be known regardless of how many chan family members will stand up to claim i am wrong. eventually other members of hung sing and buk sing will take my position.

i must have some reason for coming out so strong, i have claimed who i am, what school i am from and who my sifu is. i have also posted our website. my sifu regularly checks out these forums for a laugh. if i am alone in my beliefs, then wouldn't my sifu repremand me for my comments? yet, i am still standing strong on my beliefs, and i am still a current senior at my kwoon.

you claim "slowly now they are willing to bring out and share" to me that's a load of crock, why now if not before?

and in regards to your comment about letters? i have never heard anything about letters? but i have never claimed to have secret knowledge, i am just not willing to give out on this forum the information. but trust me, i am sharing this information, for the world to see.

and if anything, all the chan family will remember what i have said here on this forum, and so part of my work is complete.

fran :D

"graceful staff flies above like a dragon wiggling it's tail-strong fist releases out like a tiger raising its head

[extrajoseph]

Have you ever thought of the idea that the high ranking elders from all branches do not bother to speak with you on this topic because they think you are just too ridiculous for words? Just a thought.

BTW, which elders of the Chan family throw their weight around? and in what way? It would be nice to back up your latest inuandoes with some names and clarification or are we asking too much again?
I for one will be more than satisfied with just one name and one event backed up with witness statements and not just more gossips.

I can see you now coming back from Futshan in a few weeks time with all the "proofs". May I suggest that you get your Sifu or someone with a better reputation, to present these findings, if there are any, instead of you as the "authorised historian". I have never seem anything more from you other than hot air in these postings. You have gone way past your use-by date my friend I am afraid.

Joseph

[CLFNole]

Not with the topic but do any of you have any knowledge of the following CLF people (all are deceased but are related to my lineage):

Wong Fook
Leung Gwai
So Kam Fook
Poon Dik

I know a limited amount about each one and am trying to find out who their respective teachers were. I believe Poon Dik followed both Wong Fook and Leung Gwai. I think Poon Dik and So Kam Fook were si hing/di.

Any info would be appreciated.

Peace.

[Serpent]

You said:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
if the chan family is so strong in their beliefs, then why do they fight our story so strongly? if we are wrong, then let us be wrong, right? but there is an underlying reason they have to dispute our story as hung sing. thirdly, all the claims chan family has made about jeong yim has not been backed up after my posting of revelant questions.
as elders, they should be able to answer those questions.
[/quote]

Well, maybe they're just letting you be wrong while they get on with their kung fu.

[iron_silk]

"I am not saying you are not right but your clear dislike towards chan family can bring people to believe your research to be bias and unfair."

"you say my research is biased and unfair,"

ha ha ha

well I got nothing against your position, nor am I really a Chan Family member...my interest in the history is kind of strange, so i won't bother going into it.

But clearly stated above...I was not talking about you are right or wrong, or whether you are actual bias or not...BUT that you seem like it.
I don't discredit your research and dedication, nor bad experience from Chan Family, BUT I find your approach in communicating some what wrong.

Now above all else i do hope your information and hard work gets to be spoken out, perhaps by or in a more credible manner.
And that perhaps we should back off on bugging you regarding the issue.

And sorry again I know this was meant soley for you but I just have an interest but seems...to make me stupid and reply anyway.

Later!

;)

[iron_silk]

also about the release of forms previously hidden from public may not actually be true, BUT doesn't mean it can't be either.

it's too bad you don't seem to show yourself as an unbias individual...now this time I am also using the word "seem" refering to how you allow others to perceive rather than actually being, since I got no proof of how factual your research and methods were :)

also it prevents others from replying to you without such emotions when you, yourself, reply with such childish (teen-age) energy.

I know I am digging a deep hole with you...sorry by the way...I don't mean to offend you...BUT it does seem that you don't put much attention into your replies, ie what others are saying

so in short I don't mean to be a jerk, I just wanted to let you know, how perhaps you are perceived and how you could improve...

maybe you can start getting some respect and more people will listen to you that way. :D

and since you don't mind to be wrong, but just want your history told...well then...all the research must've been a bit of a waste of time then no? (joking!)

[yik-wah-tik]

believe me, i am aware of my actions. and yes i am a hot head. and maybe i should use more restrain when i post things, but here, the people are faceless internet terrorists who hide behind the vail of anonymity. as i have stated many times who i am, where i am from and who my sifu is, if anyone was to contact my sifu directly, they would find out i am not just spouting off "hot air" as our counterpart "master joseph" has claimed i have done. personally i think my approach scares some reality into them, especially joseph, who came ont o a post meant strictly for me and attacked me personally AGAIN!!!!!

i can't take people like serpent, joseph, or whoever seriously when they will not reveal their true identities.......such as jospeph who made the most hillarious comment that i still laugh at to this day........" my sifu's are dead now and from china and you will never have heard of them". hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.....that kills me, and he claims to be an authentic gung fu man....hahahahahahahahahahahaaaa......sorry i don't mean to laugh like this but hahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!

sorry, i got side tracked.

i asure you iron silk, that the research i have done is more than credible, and will be done in a most credible manner. this is an open forum as you know, and i have completed what i wanted to, as some have said to me, i have made some go and research their history deeper because of me.

i am always open to be proven wrong, i just believe in my history so strongly. if someone can prove me wrong, then be my guest, because i will be a better historian for it in the long run. i absorb all i hear and root out the garbage, such as some of the stuff i hear about jeong yim outside of the hung sing branch.

so continue to post me up, i am willing to converse with you. although i come at this like gangbusters, on a one on one, you would find that i am not all that bad.

i really find it funny that most here are hair trigger ready to dispute anything not put out by the chan family, instead of as i have said "absorb" the info, research it, and come to their own conclusions. but no, they jump on me, but i am strong and can handle myself in any situation.

so keep up the dialogue with me and maybe we will get somewhere.

thanks to joseph, you are a really swell guy!!!!
wanna be just like you ;)


frank or what ever, whomever i chose to be, but who will i be the next time.....that is the question

"graceful staff flies above like a dragon wiggling it's tail-strong fist releases out like a tiger raising its head"

[iron_silk]

Thanks for your reponse. Except for the crazy laughter, that was a very pleasant message.

Have a good one, and if you research happens I can wait to read about it in the kung fu magazine.

Later :)

Joseph is a somewhat friendly guy...I do hope you guys are able to play nice.

[yik-wah-tik]

thanks for your responce,

hey i thought what he said has hella funny.

i would play nice, but he attacked first, and i responded. i would play nice with those who play nice with me.

for instance, with you, i have not shot you down. i understand where you are coming from.


frank :D

"graceful staff flies above like a dragon wiggling it's tail-strong fist releases out like a tiger raising its head"

[premier]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> for one, the simple fact that a chan family sifu had the nerve to ask my classmate if he wanted to be corrected in his hung sing choy lee fut. we are not chan family choy lee fut, so how can he correct us? (and your problem with this is what?)
[/quote]

None. I understand, but just as I've said to you two times already, you can't judge the whole god**** branch based on one sifu's acts. Is this really too hard to understand? Go on. Critize that sifu behind his back all you want, if that makes you feel better, but don't go critize the branch because of it. Those other 100 000 people didn't have anything to do with it and see your branch as nothing else than kung fu brothers.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> two, the chan family has always claimed we (the hung sing side) have always had our history wrong in regards to jeong hung sing. the hung sing family all tell the exact same story, and the chan family try to sidetrack us with their version.
how can all hung sing be wrong?
[/quote]

I could just as easily ask you the same question. How can the whole chan family be wrong? The main thing is though that no one knows for sure. That's why it's silly to argue about this.

Who? When? and where? has the chan family claimed your story is wrong? Telling our side of the story isn't claiming you to be wrong.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> three, the chan family sifu's have all thrown around their weight because of their bloodline to chan heung. so what!!!!!!! hung sing people don't ever do that. i personally have not thrown my weight when it comes to our clf. i only wanted to tell our side of the story. and again, the chan family come out to discredit!!!!!
[/quote]

Well. to be honest there's always advantage of having blood line to the creator of the style, but I don't want to go in to that, because I don't think it matters that much. All branches practise CLF with their own flavor and are good systems. How else would CLF be so popular today?

I'm sorry if I've accidentally discredited you some way. I don't want to discredit my fellow CLF practisioners, because I realize I don't benefit anything from it. It rips the whole family apart and makes it impossible to exchange knowledge, which would be hella cool on my opinion. So what do you benefit from it, if you want "all choy lee fut to survive together"?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> four, the chan families story always changes. 1-there were originally were 148 sets???????? then mysteriously there are now 195 and still counting, and all are supposed to be sets passed down by chan heung??????????? [/quote]

The forms are on the scrolls that Chan Yong Fa inherited from his ancestors. It's written in very old language and different dialect and it's very hard to for people nowadays to understand it. So it's really hard to "decode" all the family scrolls. Makes sense huh? I don't know for sure, but this might be one of the reasons. Not all these forms were passed on by chan heung. I don't know how many but the Jerng mun yuns after him created their own forms. Chan Yong Fa hasn't created any forms though as far as I know.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> five, if chan family would stop trying to discredit, and stop throwing around their weight, then maybe all choy lee fut can survive together.
buk sing and hung sing never start trouble, which allows the chan side to run freely and make any claims they want. i personally feel the hung sing and buk sing sides need to speak up a little louder. although we are starting to speak up and i do mean "we". i decided to openly express my gripes and i am sure you will try to shoot them down.
[/quote]

Again I have to ask Who? When? Where? Are we throwing our weight and discrediting so much we deserve to be discredited and unfairly judged ourselves? Do you realize you're attacking the whole family because of few individuals?

I don't know what has happened outside this forum. I haven't seen or heard anyone discrediting you or claiming you to be wrong about your history, but I have seen you coming to this forum and start to do it yourself.

It's ok to speak up and tell what you think. It's ok to express your gripes, but the conversation should be kept civilized. I'm open for new ideas and new evidence about our history. All I need is evidence. I just hope we all can stay open minded about it and not try to convert people. Let's just face it, you can't be any more certain about your history than I can be about mine, so why fight about it?


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> you know, we might get somewhere if you chose to listen to me and not brush me off. if you have not put in the work then you would not understand my position. if you do not understand my position then it makes no sense for me to keep trying to explain to you. all you have to do is re-read my posts and take an outsider look and try and understand why i come on like that with the chan family.
[/quote]

I try to understand your position, but do you understand mine? Believe me, I've read your posts several times and I think you have some good point every now and then, but then you do the same mistakes you're accusing me of.

I ask you a direct question once more: do you understand the difference between the whole chan family and one practisioner/sifu of the chan family?

and now I explain it to you once more: Don't judge the whole family besed on one sifu and one incident.

and now I assure you once more: I'm not out to get you. The Chan family isn't out to get you. No one is intentionally trying to discredit you.

So I hope this would end this little disagreement we've had lately. I understand why you what you do, but I think you've done it unfairly, because you've judged the whole chan family.

But just like you said it yourself: "if you do not understand my position then it makes no sense for me to keep trying to explain to you."


premier. Still a choy lee fut practisioner.