Golden Buddha Fist (Law Horn Kuen)

[phunky1632]

Hey Everybody,

I practice Ying Jow Pai (Eagle Claw) KF here in NYC with Sifu Leung Shum & Sifu Frank Marrero. We have a form called Law Horn Kuen (Golden Buddha Fist). Apparently, alot of styles have a buddha fist form, based on the form that Dat Mor (Sp?) made up for some monks. He based this on 18 golden buddha statues, these buddhas were supposed to be the guardians of heaven. Each was in a different warriors pose.

http://www.gunners1.demon.co.uk/returnofbronzemen.htm

Check out the link above. Are those pics of representations of these 18 golden buddhas ????? The face looks suspiciously like those plastic fighting monk statues that are sold in MA stores....
Has anyone see a pic of the 18 golden buddhas or have any other info on that?

Does anyone know anything else about the buddha fist form and are my details correct ??? Thanks.

[joedoe]

The face looks suspiciously like those plastic fighting monk statues that are sold in MA stores....

That is because those little statues are based on the 18 Lohan that the forms are based on.

Do you know much about Chan sect Buddhism?

[phunky1632]

got it. I guess the difference betw. Law Horn & Lohan is because of the diff betw. cantonese & mandarin ? I don't know anything about Chan buddhism. Any info about the 18 Lohan is appreciated...

Just found this online...

"Wrom: UIVOTQNQEMSFDULHPQQWOYIYZUNNYCG
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: 18 lohan hands (was Re: Chung Moo Doe)
Date: 11 Aug 1995 19:59:40 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
"18 lohan hands" refers to the shih pa lo han sho which were supposedly the original 18 drills that Bodhidharma introduced to the Shaolin monks. As to who the "lohan" were, Bruce Haines describes them in his master's thesis (taken from Overlook's "Martial Arts Reader"):

"At the present time Lo-Han is used to designate all famous disciples of the historic Buddha, but more generally the term refers to those five hundred arhats (Sanskrit term for thos who achieved Nirvana) who are supposed to rappear on earth as Buddhas, according to Buddhist mythology in some sects of the religion.

The precise meaning of Lo-Han in Bodhidharma's time, however, is lost, and we are forced to rely on the educated assumption that they were some form of temple guardians of Hindu origin. It also appears that their original Hindu number was sixteen, and that the Chinese added two to bring the number to eighteen...

...For our purposes, however, the main significance of the shih pa lo han so, via Bodhidharma, is that it is reputed to be the basis for the famous Shaolin ch'uan fa."

In a similar way, ship pal gye, a Korean interpretation of Chinese Shaolin wushu, means 18 tenets or methods."

[phunky1632]

http://www.khandro.net/deities_arhats.htm

Originally 16 arhats not 18. A possible explanation for how it became 18 is given near the end of the page. Very interesteing stuff......

also, that link is a commentary & expansion on this link, an article written in 1898 for the Royal Asiatic Society...

http://ccbs.ntu.edu.tw/FULLTEXT/JR-ENG/watte.htm

[GeneChing]

Researching Kungfu by studying kungfu movies is like researching astronomy by studying Star Trek. Come on.
I published the complete Shaolin Xiao Lohan form with accompanied with pictures of the Lohan's of Ba Ma Si temple and their explanations. It was a four part series. If you are seriously researching this, I suggest you invest in these back issues:

http://store.yahoo.com/martialartsmart/kunmag20juli.html
http://store.yahoo.com/martialartsmart/kunmag20sepi.html
http://store.yahoo.com/martialartsmart/kunmag20novi.html
http://store.yahoo.com/martialartsmart/kunmagjanisk.html

[phunky1632]

I study Eagle Claw KF.

I watch KF movies for entertainment.

The link i orig posted shows a movie poster that just happened to remind me of the background story I had read about Law Horn Kuen, Ying Jow Pai's Buddha Fist Form.

I'll check out your links. Perhaps you should see the ones that I posted later also. They explain the origins of the 18 lohan from the 16 arhats and give all the explanations of each.

[joedoe]

law horn = lohan = arhat. All 3 terms refer to the same thing.

I remember being told what the derivation from arhat to lohan was but I cannot remember it right now.

[phunky1632]

One of those articles i referred to above points out that lohan is the chinese adaptation/pronunciation of the sanskrit word arhat.

I'd be interested in figuring out, though this part is probably lost in history, how the arhat guardians of buddhism (not really depicted as warriors) were transposed onto 16 or 18 warriors. I wonder how that leap was made? Probably convenience and to tie the martial art to buddhism? The arhats were meant to guard buddhism throughout the world, after buddha's death but they weren't warriors.

http://www.trincoll.edu/classes/relg254pics/relg254pics/class18/

check out the above link and you'll see some statues of lohans...

Has anyone see lohan statues in fighting poses? Perhaps the old story about a lawhorn/lohan form based on 18 golden lohan statues in fighting poses is bull. Either way, makes for interesting stuff. Anyone have a link to pics of lohan statues in fighting poses, please post !!!!

[ngokfei]

Am also a student of Sifu Shum

You really have to take a look at the chinese characters of the forms. Due to Sifu's bad english at the time his translations are not accurate. As stated the form is translated as Arhat's Fist.

This form is one of the original collaboration sets put together when Fan Tzi and Ngok Fei's techniques were combined.

Alot of sets out there give recognition to religion but mainly to the Chan Sect Shaolin Martial ARts. I've never read information pertaining to the form being related to the 16/18, etc Arhats or Techniques.

Many of the original EC sets are base shaolin sets with Clawing and Locking technqiues placed inside of them.

later

eric

[HuangKaiVun]

All of those postures, used properly, are very effective in real fighting.

Shaolin or not, what does it matter?

[ngokfei]

and you point is what?

Didn't mention the "18 lohan" postures being useless.

Just clarifying a point for a fellow training brother.