OT: trouble on - US Navy - all ****ers?

[Mr Punch]

Went up Fuji the other week. Beautiful (anyone who wants a fuller description is welcome to mail me, and I'll send them the mini travelogue I wrote).

Really beautiful. The only thing that marred the experience was the roughly 300 US sailors oxygen-puffing, smoking, moaning and shouting, most of the way up it, before finally turning back.

The first half of them said they were Navy, most of the rest said they were marines. Dunno the difference myself, but the second bunch did seem a little healthier.

The stupid thing was, they were all built like muscle-boys fresh from the gym, and some of them were puffing on issued oxygen tubes from backpacks, and they were still slowly labouring up the thing like it was some kind of effort. As I skipped happily on past them I felt quite justified in laughing "PUSSIES! I thought you were supposed to be some kind of military" at them. There's no way the dozy fux could have caught me, or probably done anything if they had!!!

This one guy I spoke to, when I said I was from the UK, proudly said he'd been to Scotland, and the best thing he had to say about it was that he got a really easy lay when some lass heard his American accent.

My response will not be recorded on a family forum. His response to that was looking at me to see if I was joking, then shutting the **** up.

Most of the US navy I see are hanging around *****houses and skanky bars causing grief with the locals and the other gaijin, and the vast proportion of them seem seem to be tweaking speed, dropping e or just too ****ed to find their way back to Yokosuka (or even ****ing pronounce it). Is there no drugs testing in the military?

By their very being abroad, these 'people' are representatives of the US of A. And these unfit drug-dealing and -abusing fux are supposed to be some kind of fighting force.

Would anybody with experience of the military abroad care to comment? Or, failing that, would some nice Americans on this board like to say something nice before I flip out and kill your entire ****ing navy like the sick dogs that they are!?

These scum **** me off. That's all.

[ewallace]

So, can I sign you up for the US Navy or what?

[rogue]

And they are in Japan because why?:p

[Chang Style Novice]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say in the Navy you might spend a lot of time at sea level. And Mt. Fuji is how high above sea level? And acclimation to thinner air at high altitudes takes how long?

As for the rest of their behavior, it sounds inexcusable and I believe every word of it, unfortunately. A lot of people enter the military to escape bad circumstances - it's one of the ways upward mobility is possible in our society, by putting yourself at risk in the service of the country. A sad fact is that a lot of people won't succeed, and keep the bad habits they learned in bad circumstances.

[dnc101]

Unfortunately, I can believe you. CSN gave a good answer, as far as it goes. Another reason is the degradation (liberalisation) of our military ever since the late 60's, especially with regards to discipline. I was in the Marines during that period, and one of the many career designated personell who opted to leave.

I pulled one tour of duty in Japan and one in Okinawa, and I loved it. I've also been up Mount Fuji, and it is an experience I'd highly recomend. (By the way, I made it all the way up without oxygen.) It was beautiful, and I'm sorry your experience was spoiled by some of my less than respectful (of themselves and others) countrymen.

[joedoe]

What kind of altitude were you at?

[Chang Style Novice]

According to this topographical map (http://volcano.und.nodak.edu/vwdocs/volc_images/north_asia/topograph.html) Mt. Fuji has an altitude of 3500 meters, which this conversion site (http://www.onlineconversion.com/) says equals 2.14 miles, and I believe the trail goes all the way to the peak.

Good gravy I must be bored.

[Budokan]

Quit bad mouthing our military or we'll drop another atom bomb on you.

:D

[joedoe]

Originally posted by Chang Style Novice
According to this topographical map (http://volcano.und.nodak.edu/vwdocs/volc_images/north_asia/topograph.html) Mt. Fuji has an altitude of 3500 meters, which this conversion site (http://www.onlineconversion.com/) says equals 2.14 miles, and I believe the trail goes all the way to the peak.

Good gravy I must be bored.

That is a long way up.

[Jowbacca]

Mat:

I went to high school in Okinawa; on Kadena AFB (God I STILL wanna go back).
Luckily, I was off-island for that first major rape- 3 guys on that one 12 year-old.
But I did happen to return the following Christmas for vacation in time to witness the after effects.
I heard there was another rape a year or 2 ago.

"First" or "another" are probably misleading words. My first summer on Oki, I worked in the passports office; so we handled people coming and going. There were something like 27 service members jailed between 89 and 93 for sexual crimes on Okinawa alone.

Thanks to these crimes, there were curfews. A bunch of places I loved to go were shut down. A bunch of my friends relocated to mainland to have something to do. All because of the breakdown of discipline.

As high schoolers we noticed that the marines wouldn't even fight one of us unless they had us outnumbered 5 to 1.

I guess I kind of have a love-hate relationship with military folk. On one hand the bad eggs are capable of sickening acts of inhumanity. On the other hand, we shouldn't be so quick to write off everyone else due to the atrocious actions of some immature sickos.

On Okinawa I also saw great acts of charity, brotherhood, and kindness.

The problem with the bad eggs runs deep; but you've gotta figure that psychos run into battle, while normal people probably p!ss themselves.

I definitely feel you on your complaints; and if it weren't for those guys I'd probably have an easier time of going back home.

[Mojo]

LOL at Budokan !

[guohuen]

Nineteen year olds with alcohol and money. What was your point again?

[red5angel]

Went up KFO the other week. Beautiful (anyone who wants a fuller description is welcome to mail me, and I'll send them the mini travelogue I wrote).

Really beautiful. The only thing that marred the experience was the roughly 1 Brit in Japan oxygen-puffing, smoking, moaning and shouting, most of the way.


The stupid thing was, he was built like a computer geek fresh from his soapbox, and some of them were puffing on swollen foreign ego from his lack of knowledge ad ignorance on the US military, and they were still slowly labouring the thing like it was some kind of effort. As I read happily on past them I felt quite justified in laughing "PUSSIES! I thought you were supposed to be some kind of martial artist" at him. There's no way the dozy fuk could have caught me, or probably done anything if they had!!!

This one guy I spoke to, said he was from the UK, proudly.

My response will not be recorded on a family forum. His response to that was looking at me to see if I was joking, then not shutting the **** up= like he should probably do or face looking even more ignorant.

Most of Mat I see are hanging around dojos and skanky forums causing grief with the locals and the other gaijin, and the vast proportion of him seems to be tweaking his ego, dropping his idiocy on everyone else or just too ****ed to find their way back behind a computer keyboard (or even ****ing pronounce it). Is there no drugs testing in Japan?

By his very being abroad, this person is representing himself. And this unfit computer jockey and -abusing fuk is supposed to be some kind of fighting man.

Would anybody with experience of the KFO abroad care to comment? Or, failing that, would some nice Americans on this board like to say something nice before I flip out and kill your entire fukking kind like the sick dogs that they are!?

These scum **** me off. That's all.

[red5angel]

Mat you ignoramus, someone should have told your mom to stop drinking while she was pregnant.

[SaMantis]

ditto guohuen's point. 19-year-olds with alcohol and money. also, birds of a feather flock together.

the "representatives" you didn't see were the quieter folks in smaller groups (or alone) who spoke politely to everyone, stayed sober, and made it to the top and back. those folks avoid large groups of jack asses off and on the base. they generally do much better in and out of the military, career-wise. Can't figure out why. :rolleyes:

Unfortunately there's plenty of drug abuse in the military, they just have much better public affairs tactics. Also, a lot of kids drop acid because it's not detectable on standard drug tests.

[ewallace]

The don't ask/don't tell policy of our armed forces unfortunately applies to crackheads as well as fruits. They do give U/A's in the military though.

[African Tiger]

on the side of my beloved Marines.

Having climbed Mt. Rainer in Eastern Washington State (14,410 feet), when I was EIGHT (8), WITHOUT OXYGEN, I can tell you that being built like a brick s h it house ain't got di ck to do with climbing!

Haven't you seen those twerpy looking mountain climbers and rock climbers on TV? There's a reason they look like skin and bones and the honey's have no hooters - all these people do is climb. They live for the climb. They sleep on the rockface for fun.

Professional - as in Mt. Everest-level - climbers train by climbing several smaller mountains. They don't go to the gym and execute millions of bench presses and leg presses - trust me.

I've also heard that cardiovascular training is actually detrimental to climbing, as the body is using oxygen TOO efficiently, and actually starving the brain for oxygen. I don't know this for sure, but it was told to me by another climber.

These "wimpy" sailors and marines you referred to were probably mid-westerners or city boys, who have never gone hiking above 1,000 feet. I'm sure you felt so proud of yourself by looking down (literally and figuratively) on them, but I wonder if YOU would be able to hike 20+ miles while wearing a 50lbs pack and carrying a 20 lbs M-60 machine gun, or a 35 lbs radio and your 7 lbs M-16A2 rifle?

I HAVE :p Both the radio and the M-16, the '60, and once a 72lbs grenade launcher. :p :p

Semper Fi.

[joedoe]

I accept that it is hard to hike at altitude, however as professional soldiers I would have thought they would have trained for that? Correct me if I am wrong, but wouldn't you want your fighting force to be capable of performing at altitude as well as at sea level (well, your marines anyway :))? I've heard there were problems with this in Afghanistan.

Don't get me wrong - they are doing a tough job that I probably would not be capable of doing myself. But what are they going to do if they have to fight a mountain war (like Afghanistan)?

[Chang Style Novice]

The problem with trying to train for high altitudes is that it goes away once you leave the high altitudes. The only way to acclimate to thin air is to live in it, and there's no way to prevent the body from acclimating back to low altitudes.

[joedoe]

I may be wrong, but I was told that once you are used to living at altitude, it is easier to regain it if you 're-acclimatize'.

Having lived at sea level all my life, I wouldn't really know. I do know that I was seriously ****ed during a hike in the mountains surrounding Salt Lake City one winter, and I don't think they are that high up.

[{i^(]

on the side of my swabbie shipmates:

Stop yer bellyaching- close the cathouses, get rid of the gambling dens, and tell girls not to fall for the 'scum' who've been out to sea for 6 months at a shot, looking at the backsides of their friends and puking. Yes, we just wanted a beer and a good fight, that's it.

Never went to Japan, though. Heard about the tour, wouldn't want to do it. I was Atlantic seaboard.

As for 'liberalization' and stuff- I was in during Reagan's reign- didn't see that! "Zero tolerance" was the battlecry.

[Mr Punch]

I know some of these boys are capable of doing a good job. And I know the pressures must be high.

I also know that climbing mountains is not necessarily indicative of any ability to fight, but as a general level of fitness it was appalling! I don't think it's difficult climbing mountains like Fuji. It's a bit steep in places but it's no Everest: it's a walk. They didn't have any kit with them, just the oxygen bags.

AT: I wasn't looking down on them, I was ****ed off at them. But yes, I do look down on them. This sounds high and mighty, but I have certain standards for myself, in martial arts as in daily life, and they don't include this kind of behaviour. Pride just doesn't come into it.

I'm not just talking about the mountain climbing, but it's very safe over here, and the ONLY time you get grief is from US sailors on meth, e, acid, or beer. They always moan about curfews and tests, and you do hear of some of them getting caught, but surely there should be some vetting procedure in the first place? Wouldn't it save the US navy a helluva lot of money? UA doesn't seem to make much difference: I know one guy who's been UA and dealing e and meth for about 5 months.

Most of them seem to be spoilt brats or borderline criminal no-hopers. I'm not gonna trot out the cliche that I've met some good ones, because in all honesty, I haven't yet!

And yeah, I've run, walked, waded rivers and climbed walls, fences, mountains with 45lbs of kit on my back... sorry, but nobody's ever trusted me with a gun to carry!

guohen: LOL! I know, 19 year-olds with testosterone ODs, money, access to drugs and *****... true, funny, but doesn't excuse it.

red5: 10 out of 10 for effort. 5 for results (you got an answer!).

[rogue]

I accept that it is hard to hike at altitude, however as professional soldiers I would have thought they would have trained for that? Correct me if I am wrong, but wouldn't you want your fighting force to be capable of performing at altitude as well as at sea level (well, your marines anyway )? Well given their name I don't believe that Marines usually operate at high altitudes too often. But then I believed a Marine Trac driver that told me the jar heads didn't have tanks. :rolleyes:

[joedoe]

Coastal mountains maybe? :)

[{i^(]

From here, it looks like they were on a tour. More than likely they were issued the stupid oxygen bags by a weenie medical officer. If you looked around, yer holiness, you might've even seen the zero chirping at his charges.

You were the one who wasted your trip up Fuji. You could've just regarded it all as part of the swim of humanity, but no, you thought, "Ooh, goodness me! SAILORS! Wot scum!" Yes, you're being high and mighty and no one cares about your 'standards', so go p1ss. The Navy is not about going on tours and appreciating your 'standards', ya flatd1ck, it's about keeping enough guns, bombs, and personnel pointed everywhere so if anything happens, someone's there to make someone else eat boot leather.

Oh, yeh, and the other stuff- screwing up tours for you. That's the whole job. We follow you around. I was a Bos'n, so all those marines on this thread now know for certain just what kinda 'scum' I am. And they know I'm NOT being foul-mouthed but in fact being quite friendly.

[Shadow Dragon]

{i^(.

Wanna see some reports as to what some US-Soldiers get up to in Japan.

From stealing cars for joy-rides to harrasing young japanese women and hit and runs it is all documented on japanese and other media.

Wanna see how much restrictions exist for foreigners in Japan due to bad US Military behaviour?

Many US-Personnel I spoke to agreed that Japan seems to get a lower level of Soldiers than lets say Europe for their bases.

Be a foreigner in japan and have short cut hair = reducing your privileges to next to nothing.

Many US-Soldiers seem to forget that theu are representatives and good-will Ambassadors of the USA, their behaviour will influence how the rest of the World sees the USA as they are supposed to be the best of the best.

Most People of course know that it is a few rotten Apple taht commit those things, but who can tell the difference of who is rotten and who is not??

Cheers.

[{i^(]

Fair enough- no one's a fan of criminality. Those who rape etc. should be sent to leavenworth, and are. FWIW- the Navy constantly reminds squids that they are representatives, etc.

As I understand it, being a foreigner in Japan means having no privileges anyhow. All I'm saying is don't tar them all with one brush, and I'm thinking that you're not wanting to, BTW. Cathouses and etc. are equally rotten and the responsibility of the host nation that has the Navy there at their own sufferance and invitation. If its a problem, then the citizens should tell their representatives to ease the alliance to the USA and clean up there own backyards. Then it's just one less thing to do.

But no you want the behavior different somehow. Ok, fine. Write to the chief of naval operations. They'll send another memo downhill, and everyone will have their shore leave denied for another week or so, and then they'll just get more ***** and stupid as they save their money for another bout. It's the way of the world. Generally, the good guys stay onboard and save their money (all of it) so they can alter their circumstances when they get out.

[red5angel]

Joedoe, we have units who train for high altitude type stuff. If a unit is going to be deployed then they try to get the sensitized as quickly as possible but this isnt always true. As any fellow marine or sailor can tell you, being at sea level and then trying to get to the top of a mountain can be tough, even towing all that gear as AT points out!

Shadow Dragon, you hit the nail on the head, although ALL americans abroad should be representing their countries, as well as any people of any nation abroad, there are always a few bad apples and they are unfortunately the ones who get noticed. I served with quite a few marines who were well behaved and outstanding representatives of the United States of America. Squids too ;)

[Mr Punch]

Originally posted by {i^(
From here, it looks like they were on a tour. More than likely they were issued the stupid oxygen bags by a weenie medical officer. If you looked around, yer holiness, you might've even seen the zero chirping at his charges.

no, they were moaning bout being 'on a holiday'. it was unofficial. fair enuf to moan.


You were the one who wasted your trip up Fuji. You could've just regarded it all as part of the swim of humanity, but no, you thought, "Ooh, goodness me! SAILORS! Wot scum!" Yes, you're being high and mighty and no one cares about your 'standards', so go p1ss. The Navy is not about going on tours and appreciating your 'standards', ya flatd1ck, it's about keeping enough guns, bombs, and personnel pointed everywhere so if anything happens, someone's there to make someone else eat boot leather.

no. i didnt waste my trip. i enjoyed myself. this was a considered post 3 weeks after the trip. great memories. i'm not hi n mitey, they jus ****ed me off. read my second post again. i know wot they r there for.


Oh, yeh, and the other stuff- screwing up tours for you. That's the whole job. We follow you around. I was a Bos'n, so all those marines on this thread now know for certain just what kinda 'scum' I am. And they know I'm NOT being foul-mouthed but in fact being quite friendly.

wotever.

[Mr Punch]

Originally posted by {i^(
As I understand it, being a foreigner in Japan means having no privileges anyhow. All I'm saying is don't tar them all with one brush, and I'm thinking that you're not wanting to, BTW. Cathouses and etc. are equally rotten and the responsibility of the host nation that has the Navy there at their own sufferance and invitation. If its a problem, then the citizens should tell their representatives to ease the alliance to the USA and clean up there own backyards. Then it's just one less thing to do.

agreed.


But no you want the behavior different somehow. Ok, fine. Write to the chief of naval operations. They'll send another memo downhill, and everyone will have their shore leave denied for another week or so, and then they'll just get more ***** and stupid as they save their money for another bout. It's the way of the world. Generally, the good guys stay onboard and save their money (all of it) so they can alter their circumstances when they get out.

wot about sum kind of screening b4 they go in? should there not be some kind of standards for the fighting men of your country?

[Mr Punch]

Originally posted by sticky fingers
Budokan,
I just came back from Hiroshima and if you could only see what I saw at the A-Bomb museum you wouldn't have said that, even in jest. I bet you didn't know a number of American POWs were also killed by the atomic bomb.

funny that.


Mat,
Too bad we didn't get a chance to meet up. I got your call and called you back the next day but got no answer. I was a little busy anyway. I was lucky enough not to encounter any obnoxious marines when I climbed Mt Fuji. But go to any clubbing district any weekend and I'm sure you'll see ******* gaijin acting like monkeys be they American, Aussie, Canadian,British etc. (although the Americans always seem the loudest and rowdiest).

yeah, shame. met dave and steve k tho. bin training with them a lot the past coupla weeks. next time eh?


I didn't need oxygen either or got any symptoms of altitude sickness...my guess is that those guys were probably thinking 'Hey, we're Marines, we can RUN up this hill' and flaked out before the 6th station :D I bet it was ego deflating for them to be overtaken by obachans!!
Did you see the sunrise from the top?

btw, Mt Fuji is 3776m at its highest point ( which is accessible).

me neither, tho i got a mild dose of sunstroke, and a heavy dose of sunburn! the marines werent in such bad shape, the 'regulars' (dunno what theyd be) were ****ing stupid (in terms of fitness). the obachan were on fine fettle! saw sunrise from 200m above the 5th station. beautiful. saw the ungai (cloud sea) from the top. no view of tokyo, but gorgeous neway. practised aiki kata with my walking stick at the top, and my wing chun forms. sweet.

[JOHNNY]

"And yeah, I've run, walked, waded rivers and climbed walls, fences, mountains with 45lbs of kit on my back... sorry, but nobody's ever trusted me with a gun to carry!"
HAHA forty five pounds. That aint s h i t.!!! That is our base pack plus ammo and for me to the radio which is about 20lbs. Grunts carry more. You have a big mouth which is amusing. And if someone does something wrong does not mean the whole military is like that. Yes I have met Navy that seemed like civilians. I was on ship with them and some surprised me with their actions. There is Marines like that also but hey not everyones perfect. Most Marines I know are not like that and are respectable.
You my friend are an idiot with a big mouth you need to shut the f u c k up
Semper fidelis
johnny

[{i^(]

There's always this (http://masturbateforpeace.com/) for people that are anti-military :rolleyes: :eek:

[Mr Punch]

You'll be glad to know this is my last post on this thread.

I'm not anti-military. I am anti-moron, and that includes moron moderators, who should also know better.

The sailors I was kidding around with (calling pussies etc) took it in good humour, as it was intended.

A high proportion of the people there, I would say about half, were being as$holes. I knew this thread would cause some grief, but it was partly in good humour, and partly to let off steam, and also, of course to provoke some interesting argument.

As Sticky said, a lot of the gaijin over here behave like morons. I don't like them either, and I frequently try to argue against their ingrained prejudice and generally disrespectful bs... not that I think I am any kind of arbiter of moral standards, but just as you have stood up against me, because you think what I think is bs, same with me. Wude, moduk, or whatever the hell you wanna call it. I usually do it in a more reasoned and respectful manner than you did to me, but if you wanna get down to name-slinging: I'm now thinking - you are a ***** - I don't expect anyone to agree with me, or back me up on that... just a personal opinion which I'd be happy to change if you're man enough to post without slinging insults. I don't really care. I've wasted enough time with this bs.

And I wasn't saying I was hard cos I've carried 45lbs, nor was I challenging the great US military! It was a point of reference.

To paraphrase Red5, anyone abroad has a particular duty as a representative of their country, whether they like it or not: and in similar ways to a lesser degree, on a public net forum. I'm not painting the whole of the American military with the same brush, I merely stated that the ones I have met so far hav not been particularly good representatives of their country.

Sincere apologies to anyone I have offended, insincere apologies to anyone who doesn't understand the words 'tongue in cheek' and a big F U to you Johnny, who, until you can actually behave like a moderator, firmly remains 'cock in cheek'.

[sticky fingers]

Well done Trigger Happy JOHNNY

you've just proved Mat's point

[JOHNNY]

well stickyfingers, if i did then oh well!!!! i thought that some of his points were that the military are out of shape and behave poorly?? How did I proove that??? With his comments he is no better or less hostile for putting his biased opinion on a public forum. I hate people who are quick to generalize about the military and put there two cents where they are not needed. If he thinks I am a d i c k then he should of not made idiotic coments. I did not come onto the board making broad generlizations of Japenese or any other countries military or people. I as a Marine take it personal and have the people who make there ignorant comments would never fight for their country:rolleyes: . You know what Matt I am glad your are leaving I could care less. Ill live. You must of got picked on or something that you have created such animosity towards our military. Its okay you can keep your little c o c k in your pants!!! And for sticky this does not concern you so do not intervene.:o
johnny
semper fidelis
god speed

[IronFist]

Guys, I hate to tell you, but it's spelled w-h-a-t :p

I bet typing "wot" even takes longer because you're not used to typing it that way... in the time it takes you to slightly hesitate and think "w-o-t" instead of "w-h-a-t" takes longer than typing "w-h-a-t" would in the first place :p

IronFist