Is it a good idea to lay low if you study a rare style??

[Royal Dragon]

Hello,
[Begin rant]
This question is being inspred by Tim's Shen Wu discussion forum where at this very moment, memebers of that forum are trying to flam baste me and serve me for supper over the fact that I study a rare art that they have never heard of.

One member has even gone to the extreme as to make up quotes and attribute them to me in an attempt to discredit me. They seem to think the art I study long distance is some sort of made up concoction I came up with to scam $$ out of students (I'm not even teaching it for God sakes!!)

Most of you have known me for a long time now, and may remember the trials and tribulations my lineage went through before. So you guys know I avoid fradulant behaivior as general practice, and have done considerable reseach into my art (I'm sure I've board you all to death with this many time over, right?) but how do I defend myself with people who judge me to be a fraud right off without even looking to see if the art I study even exists?? These guys are actually looking at the "Other side", the one both I and my Sifu walked out on and put as much distance as we could from, and attributing "THEIR" actions, claims and silly beliefes to me.:( :rolleyes:

So I'm asking, do you think it is better to just be quiet, and not talk about what I am doing?? Or should I just deal with those who think I'm a liar and attack me because I don't study a big name well known style? :confused:

I'm tired of fighting, arguing and "Defending" myself. I just want to converes martial arts and learn what I can from whoever can offer me knowledge. When someone asks me what I study, I don't want them to go "Really?", sounds made up to me. I bet your a fraud. And then lynch me for it. It's too tireing. I'm wore out, I don't need or want crap like this. All I want to do is "MY" Kung Fu, not someone elses, but mine. I don't care if it's rare, I like it. The fact that it is rare intrigues me even more. Why do I have to defend that??:confused:

Just so you know, the site flam' basting me is Tim Cartell's Shen Wu discussion fourm. look in the flame room. It started from a conversation in the taiji room. I was asking about ancient Taiji Quan.

[End of rant]

Ok, I feel better now. Comments anyone??

RD

[Budokan]

Do you enjoy the style you're doing now? If so, then why do you care what other people think? Life's too short for that malarkey.

If you're happy then stick with it. And to h*ll with everybody else.
(That goes for you tae bo folks, too :D )

[Shaolin Master]

RD,

It can be usefule to stay quite :) as I have told you before.

Anyway, my new email is sifu@authenticshaolin.com "again" it is up and running now..... sorry I cannot access the bigpond account from China, now I am settled though.

Just tell them "kung fu" or "Long Fist" and only be specific with those that seem truely interested.......

till soon.,

[joedoe]

I agree with Shaolin Master. I keep it general unless people are genuinely interested.

[SanHeChuan]

If they are a total layman, reply kung fu, as they wouldn't understand what long fist is or what kung fu is for that matter.

If they do martial arts, Long fist would be appropriate, as they should have educated them selves about other martial arts, though many do not.

And if they do kung fu, then you can say Tai Tzu Chang Chuan and if they don't understand that there are like 50 bigillion styles and they couldn't have heard of every family style or lineage then THEY are morons. Though you'll still have to explain to the rest of us that it's a family style rooted in long fist (or vise versa? I don't know, Bla bla bla), as we may be educated in the styles of kung fu but we can't know everything.

[Royal Dragon]

Hi guys, thanks for the comments.

I feel better now after a good night sleep. It's not as big of a deal as I made it out to be before. I was just a little Irate, that's all.

These guys are suposed to be martial artists, experianced ones at that. Why they are deciding to lynch me is beyond me. They keep going back to Kash's and Siebert's sites as If "I" am involed with those guys or something :rolleyes:

Anyway, some good may come of it. Tim Cartel (The site's owner) aparently has some contact with a player of Tai Tzu's Southern division. Maybe it wll lead me to a new research source.
Shaolin Master, it's good to hear from you again :) .

I'll drop you an E-mail later.

Thanks guys,

RD

[Brad]

Royal Dragon.. i'll tell you what i believe.. this is all bs..there is no such thing as Tai Tzu..
What the hell is this guy talking about? Tai Tzu isn't exactly "unknown". I've read about in books/articles by Adam Hsu, Liang Shou Yu's Kungfu elements, Kungfu Qigong's 100 top kungfu styles issue, my teacher's mentioned it before, and I've seen a picture of teacher in beijing holding a posture with the label "Tai Tzu Chang Quan".

[KC Elbows]

I've been accused a couple of times, but usually those accusations start when someone's losing an argument, it's like a last ditch attempt to discredit something I'm saying.

What's funny is that I try not to talk up my style as the ultimate or anything. I'm just another kung fu man.

[guohuen]

There seems to be a direct correlation between the actual amount of experience a person has and the amount of critisising of other styles they do. Those that only know the buzzwords seem to do the most.

[jon]

"there is no such thing as Tai Tzu.. "
* As someone already stated its certainly not that rare.
I was actualy given a brief demonstration of it by a tourist who stopped and showed interest while we where training at the Gardens.
He was an middle aged western gentleman and he didnt think i would have heard of the system and i had;) He was a little secretive about it but still conceded to show me a small set.
The set he showed me i was assued was an intermediate set and nothing to special.
It was nearly all done in a strait line and used many elbow techniques and several movements which showed marked similarity to other movements ive seen within the internals.
His powergeneration was diffinately internal in nature and to be frank dispite the performer not being exactly a master i was VERY impressed with what i saw.

My honest advice is simply laugh it off, people within your circle will recognise the system for its worth. People who are not within your circle are unlikely to understand anyway.

[CD Lee]

You should know by now, if you have done your surfing, that some of Tim's students tend to get a little wound up over stuff. Tim never does, he is pretty cool, and lets his fighting do his talking, and he is always in control. He does let his students go a little wild on the board, but they are adults.

Don't hide it. Don't flaunt it. How many poeple that do not do Kung Fu know what Xingyiquan is? NOBODY that I have met. All my relatives and friends have no idea what I take, althouh they have asked and I have told them. I just say it is a Chinese Kung Fu that I do for health. Just for excersice. Of course that is not really why...

[norther practitioner]

Beat them up.....then be like, oh yeah.

Whatever man, they're a bunch of chumps. I have to say, studying a rare style is cool, plus you get to keep it around, but the downside is if you are looking to move or something, that could hamper keeping with that part. style.

[GeneChing]

It's a good idea to lay low if you have a thin skin and can't take a few callous remarks. Otherwise, bust that rare stuff out, if you have the courage. There are no secrets. Let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late.

[SifuAbel]

RD,

What should you care that a few ignora-mouses on some web page are talking smack?

Different names that refer to the same style :
Sung Tai tzu, Tai Jow Kune, Chueng Kune pai, Tai Tzu Chuan. This is actually a rather large family of styles. Forms in other arts also reflect this, such as The Tai Jow kune in eagle claw, Tai jow being one of the noted elders in Ng jow Kune (5 Elders style). The Yeuh Fei connection in the Southern Sung dynasty; Lance fighter, developed eagle claw and Hsing-yi. (he even had a giant Sung symbol tattooed to his chest) There is a lot of history that you can draw on. These guys are just being A holes anyway.

[SaMantis]

Do what Jay & Silent Bob did. Go to every one of their houses and kick their asses, one by one. That'll learn 'em.

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by SaMantis
Do what Jay & Silent Bob did. Go to every one of their houses and kick their asses, one by one. That'll learn 'em.

I agree. Gian, you should start by kicking Mike Sigman's @ss.

[Royal Dragon]

You guys want to see the E-mail I got?? It's funny!!!

Here Ya go:

Royal Dragon

From your tenuous pronouncements, both here and on emptyflower, i would suggest that everyone knows what you are. You insulted one of my teachers and told several others, whom i deeply respect, that they are talking bull****. Considering they have been practising for fourty years you should exhibit some Wu De, not to mention common sense.

The Rev Fish told you whats what and here Tim has told you. Meynard has scalped your bs video Tai Ji and the Tai Tzu brotherhood in the US seems to be composed of more GrandMasters than all of Chess history. That says more than all of your protestation.

As to being folded like a cheap napkin, ok then, I will be going to back to china next month and then on to the States over Christmas. Let me have your school details and when you'd like to meet. We can discuss real CMA after crossing hands.

WTF


Reply]
Personally, I not sure what he is talking about. I was trying to discuss Taiji's origins and I got slammed. I have a taiji set "Called' original taiji. Some of you may remeber me discussing it before here. Basically it's just the 8 pstures done in the 8 gates with a few extra's. It could very well be the original, who knows. I think they took offense to that.

I responded with something like "Don't bother me, your an internet troll, nothing more" or something to that effect.

[Royal Dragon]

You know what I think the problem is? I made the mistake of going over there and trolling for hit's to my forums.

Abel, jon,
Yes, Tai Tzu is in alot of places. Most don't have the full thing (considering it is actually like 4 seperate styles lumped together, that's not suprising), but there is considerably more out there than I originally thought.

I have that Elbow form by the way. It is an intermediate set form the internal system. I'm not sure of it's origin, but it's a cool set. I don't really practice it much though, I have too much on my plate as it is right now.

[dre]

You've got a rare style. Be proud of it. Half of them are envious that they don't have anything half as special as what you have. Ignore the ignoramuses.

If someone asks you , tell them. If the laugh, so what? You know what you can do, so ignore the bs.

[Leonidas]

Just checking if my avatar works, dont mind me.

[HuangKaiVun]

As my sifu said:

when you touch hands in real life, you KNOW.

[David Jamieson]

I gotta agree with Gene.

Can't stand the heat? Get out of the kitchen. But what you have is what you have and if YOU value it enough to share then please do.

What others "think" or "say" has little bearing on your personal Kung Fu. It is yours not theirs.

It is good to want what you have. It is not so good to want that which you cannot have.

peace

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by Kung Lek

It is good to want what you have. It is not so good to want that which you cannot have.


Now THAT'S a gem. I like that one a lot.

[bustr]

They've never heard of Tai Tzu Chang Chuan? Such narrow-minded a55holes aren't worth arguing with. I've had similar experiences with sharp and rearend. Though I wasn't a student of the style being discussed. There refusal to explore all avenues just shows their own stupidity. They'll suffer for it. You and I have no right to interfere with their efforts to remain ignorant a55ess. **** on em if they don't like it.

[jmd161]

Two of the styles i study are very rare and most have never seen much less heard of them.

1) Cheung Kune Pai ( Sung Style Longfist )
2) Huk Fu Muhn ( Black Tiger Style )

My sihing was In Kung Fu Qigong twice mar/apr and jul/aug 2001 talking about my Sigung,Sifu,and the rare Black Tiger Style.So people know a little about Black Tiger now.

But almost no one knows about Cheung Kune Pai.

jmd161:)

[Shaolindynasty]

"1) Cheung Kune Pai ( Sung Style Longfist )"

Actually I think that's the same style that RD is talking about. Just a different dialect.

[CD Lee]

JMD161 -

I think you are making that up.
:D :D :D

[SifuAbel]

Actually, he's not making it up.
Cheung Kune pai(southern sub.) means long fist style. This tree has many branches; north, south, hybrids, namesakes(forms in other styles).

[CD Lee]

SifuAbel - Awww, c'mon. You have to get all serious? Let me kid the guy a little ok? This is, after all, the KFO Forum.

[Royal Dragon]

"But almost no one knows about Cheung Kune Pai."

True

It is Tai Tzu. It's an interesting branch of the system infact. I'm not really sure of it's history, but it "Looks" to me to be a Northern branch that was pracitced in the South so long it took on Southern attributes. I see lots of the Northern techniques in the forms, but they are done like a Southern Long Fist.
It has a nmber of rare sets like the Tai tzu Mantis, and Golden Dragon. A VERY cool and rare branch of the style.


The Tai Tzu Mantis was probually created around the time of the regular North mantis. The founder of Northern Mantis was a Tai tzu master, and probually a master of several other styles too, as well as being well versed in many others (18 total I'm told). It stands to reason that since the original mantis had many improvements to it, that the Tai Tzu masters who were Wong Long's (The creator of Mantis)contemporaries would have absorbed those improvements into their Tai Tzu. I understand it is a rare branch of Tai Tzu. I am told it is found in Taiwan. There is also a Tai Tzu crane style too. Again, it is not the more common Tai tzu Chang Chuan, and is very rare. I was lucky enough to find someone who has video of it. Geting them to send it to me is another thing though.

Tai tzu, no matter what branch always contains certain techniques and concepts in the forms. So far they are always there. I'm not sure how to describe it, as i'm trying to figure it out myself, but I'm getting to the point where I can tell a Tai tzu set without having to compare it to the rest of my files. I do get confused with Cha fist though. There are a few things I have gotten that I "Thought" were Tai Tzu, but they tured out to be Cha fist. There is a certian similarity in the way the two styles are played. I was originally told "Cha Fist" came from Tai tzu, but dissmised it because I found out that Cha fist existed prior to 960 AD when Tai tzu was created. I suspect there is some sort of mutual influance going on there though.

[couch]

One quick search in Google.com for what you're studying, and I found a plethora (<---big word!) of info.

Tell those bizzes over at the other forum to go to Google and do their research before talking crap.

[Royal Dragon]

I think they did that and found the sites that are put up by known frauds that teach Taiji, Hsing I and Bagua as Tai Tzu. That made the problem worse.

[Ben Gash]

It's always difficult. Many people in the West just don't seem to realise that what is on offer here is only a fraction of what exists.
When talking to other martial artists I tend to emphasise the more well known systems that I've studied such as CLF,WC, Changquan and Taijiquan. I do however know some seriously cool stuff that few people outside of South East Asia have ever heard of, yet alone seen. When questioned on it I generally just refer to it as 5 animals or Southern Shaolin (indeed, a similar strategy has already been suggested here).
One of the problems is that people have set assumptions about things, which can lead to them automatically rubbishing things. I'm sure that if Kwong Wing Lam had to do it again he'd just call it Hay Say Fu Kuen.
Who are these idiots who've never heard of Taizhuquan though? It's only in dozens of books and syllabuses.

[The Willow Sword]

a style that everyone thinks is fake or crap and you try to branch out and you get treated like a black man gets treated back in the 1930's in the south. :mad:

[Royal Dragon]

They are from Tim's Shen Wu discussion forum. I went on their asking abot the original Taiji because my Taiji has a form called just that. It is basically the 8 postures done in the 8 gates with a few extra's and it IS what "I" would expect the original Taiji to have looked like, but I wanted other's opinions.

They took offence to my name, my questioning, the fact that I'm learning much of my Tai Tzu by video couraspondnce because there are almost NO teachers of it in this country, and the few that are here are on one end of the US or the other, and I'm in the middle. There is no other way to do it. I tried to explain I have real live teachers here near me, and I am trained in Shaoilin from a number of sources (Mostly from the same family), but it went in one ear and out the other.

I think they just needed to lynch someone, and I happened to fit the criteria or something. :rolleyes:

It's over now, I won't poston that forum or even look at it now.

[rubthebuddha]

didja ever real want to, RD?

[Royal Dragon]

Dija "I" ever really want'a what??

[OneStrike]

i know exactly what you mean i am to the point of not even saying what i study anymore. in fact even on here some people get jumped on my sihing left these boards because there are some small minded people out there (even though this board is better than some others). its just a shame that anything other people dont understand they reject.

internet warriors :rolleyes:

[Royal Dragon]

LOL, don't you know it!!!

I just checked the Shen Wu fourm (I'm a glutten for self punishment) And they are still at it over me, even though I left the board a week ago.

I didn't know I was THAT entertaining!!:rolleyes:

[HuangKaiVun]

I wonder what would happen if those guys met you in real life, Royal Dragon?

In classical violin, there are a lot of Internet folks that say that they can take me. But to this day, not a single one has dared face me in person. They know who they are too.

Reality always trumps fantasy.

[Royal Dragon]

"I wonder what would happen if those guys met you in real life, Royal Dragon"

reply]
Same thing that happenes to everyone that treats me like that, i'd ignor them untill they tried to hit me, then I'd end them.

[jon]

HuangKaiVun

"In classical violin, there are a lot of Internet folks that say that they can take me. But to this day, not a single one has dared face me in person. They know who they are too."
* errrrm just out of interest... How do I 'dare face you in person' with a violin? Is this not a BIT of a silly comparison?


As to you Royal Dragon try this on for size.
I study full time cma, i study the internals, i also kickbox.
You can imagine my exciting conversations.

What do you do?
I study martial arts and work.

What martial arts do you study?
Tai Chi, bagua, kickboxing.

Is Tai Chi a martial art?
Yes... well errrr at least it USED to be.

How often do you train?
Everyday

Are you good?
Not compared to many.

How do you fight kickboxing if you move so slowly?
I bribe my opponent:rolleyes:

Do you think you can beat me, my fourteen cousins, four submachine guns and three Pit bull terriors?
No

How do you fight in those weird looking poses.
Well actualy i dont 'fight' from those poss... ahh stuff it.
I shut my eyes and hope blindly that my opponent misses.

Why didnt you learn Karate?
I did for ages but all that yelling gave me a sore thought.

What belt are you?
Im just a lacky, i dont even have a belt yet:(

Can you break stuff with your hands?
No i tend to use powertools for that... its simply faster and easyer.

Whats the best martial art for learning how to fight quickly?
* Contact sport.
Football, soccer, wrestling, hockey, gridiron take your pick.



Yeah its a laugh a minute, the worst part is hardly anyone can tell im being sarcastic and they all walk away thinking i must be totaly insane.

PS not all of that was sarcastic, i really do believe contact sports are the best way to develop quick effective fighting skills.
If i had to make a 'fighter' in two months time i would put them into rugby leage and boxing. Two decades... now thats another story.

[jmd161]

With all you just pointed out not one mention of the .
" Spandex Fist In alll it's glory "

And the deadly art of Tae Bo:D

I mean you are LoneTiger aren't you?

jmd161:)

[Royal Dragon]

Do you think I could get respect if I switched to Tae Bo?

[jmd161]

Hey RD,

What's up?

Just to let you know i have'nt forgotten our little talk thru e-mail i've just been very busy.

Sifuabel was one of my Sifu's at my other school before he Dogged us and moved to Cali.Something about meeting the right women and Blah Blah Blah.I mean come on leaving all us sweaty, musky, ugly,guys for some Beautiful woman that makes you happy what's up with that?:D lol

Maybe you can share some info with him?

Just a thought.

jmd161:) (jeff)

[SifuAbel]

Lets see, sweaty ugly guys or a pretty girl with a tush that could stop traffic. Gee, tough choice. :D

[Royal Dragon]

I'd have to go with the traffic stopper myself :D

[jmd161]

I would really have to think that out for a moment.:confused:

Ok that's long enough.:p

British Airways how can i help you?

yeah does the Concord fly from miami,Fl to Lax? :D lol

jmd161:)

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by SifuAbel
Lets see, sweaty ugly guys or a pretty girl with a tush that could stop traffic. Gee, tough choice. :D

Oh c'mon, you were smack dab in the middle Cuban Paradise with a large sprinkling of Puerto Rican booty. The girls don't get no better than that.

[HuangKaiVun]

jon, violin duels are an integral part of classical violin tradition.

There are the same as Chinese kung fu duels: the last man standing is the WINNER. To this day, this reality persists.

It's called "economic survival".

There are a lot of professional violinists who have gone out and told people that I have absolutely "no ability". This despite my Juilliard pedigree and concert experience around the world.

They've gone around professionally trying to degrade me, telling evil stories and stopping me from competing with them for gigs. My own students have had their school teachers telling me how bad I'm supposedly teaching them! This because my students PLAY BETTER THAN THEIR TEACHERS DO.

In the world of violin, this practice is common. My mentor, an 83 year old master, told me how his colleagues TOLD HIM that they conspired to get rid of him. "You're too good", they told him. This was a few years ago AFTER both players had exited the NYC circuit.

Many people who have actually MET ME in real life have been quite surprised to see that I'm nowhere near as terrible as I am "supposed" to be. And I've beaten down (violinistically) quite a few professional violinists who had the gall to call me "arrogant" by PLAYING the things that they said "could not be played".

The older generation violin masters treat me with far more respect than today's younger players do, as my old fashioned abilities are more recognizeable to their sensibilities.

None of those arrogant young modern guys who say I am the "worst violinist in the world" are dumb enough to face me in the "HKV Challenge": playing all Paganini 24 Caprices on stage with me from memory.

That's because collectively they don't have the training and tradition to get through the 1st of the 24 routines, let alone the remaining 23.

[ewallace]

All right HKV. You think you are so smart because you can play Paganini 24 Caprices from memory. But the real test is can you score 100% on this:
http://www.maximonline.com/grit/beer_quiz/naked.asp

[The Willow Sword]

G=Becks
D=heineken
F=Grolsch
K=Corona
B=Miller HL
H=sam adams
I=Dos equis
C=killians
E=Coors
A=amstel
L=Michelobe
J=Red stripe


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA:D :p

[jmd161]

Originally posted by Water Dragon


Oh c'mon, you were smack dab in the middle Cuban Paradise with a large sprinkling of Puerto Rican booty. The girls don't get no better than that.

Water Dragon ,

This is miami you forget Colombian,Domiincan,Nicaraguan,etc........just to name a few

Also let's not forget our lovley American Girls.:D

"Hey" wait a minute then why am i single and alone?:(

Must be the sweaty,musky,ugly thing we talked about before.:D lol

jmd161:)

[Felipe Bido]

Ah..dominicans girls....love'em

Call me a traditional...:p


Back to topic. About Tai Tzu Quan, I saw a documental about northen and southern Tai Tzu. The southern forms were very external. Cool stuff

[Royal Dragon]

Wow, I didn't know Violin was such a "Contact" sport!!!

Say, where did you see that documantary? Is it the one with the really, really, really old master performing the Southern style?

I have a copy of that one (two actually). I just wish they had filemed the forms straight through so I could actually work them out. Instead, they go about 1/3 of the way through and suddenly switch angles, or they show the upper body and not the lower, or they show the form in sections and out of order etc...

It's a good video to get an overall idea of the Tai Tzu flavor though. It also shows some Gun Fist and Cha fist as well because Gun fist came directly from Tai Tzu's founding family (Chao), and Cha fist was influanced by it.

jmd161,

He he eh, LOL on talking to Abel. I actually called him to see if he knew YOU after those E-mails. :cool: :eek: :D

[jmd161]

Royal Dragon,

OOOhhhhhhhhhhh So you are the reason he came out of nowhere asking me who i was and who was my teacher? :D

I tried to fool him by acting like i did'nt know who he was,but it was already to late he had found me out.:D

jmd161:)

[jmd161]

Royal Dragon,

Did you see my post in the Kung fu given no respect thread?

I think you'll find some interesting things i said about Sifuabel.
check it out.

Here's the link.

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=222314#post222314

jmd161:)

[fa_jing]

HKV - Love the Paganini's! I also have an interesting recording of these played on Guitar. Supposedly Paganini did much of his composing on the guitar. I suppose you play Tchaikovksy D Major?

On the less-well-known tip, are you familiar with a set of Violin/Piano sonatas (I think) by Camille Saint-Saens? Jascha Heifitz did a superb recording, unfortunately I've lost it along the way.
LOL at violinistic rivalry. I knew some up-and-comers in High School. I knew one kid (taiwanese) who got into Julliard, but decided to go to Drexel instead for engineering. Go figure.
One girl in college heard the Heifitz work I mentioned above, and said that no one would play with the harsh tone that he used - basically saying his tone sucked, but he was good technician. LOFL! No one can touch Heifitz, in my opinion. Jealousy blinds. Sure, what's considered proper play may be different nowadays, but it's not an improvement, to me. Jascha was a man's violinist.

[guohuen]

LMAO!
Even on an amatuer or semi pro level when you put two violinist together you run the risk of musical combat. Same is usually true of guitarist and singers. Now when two violinist cooperate and support each other they become something greater than the sum of it's parts. Something very special.

[HuangKaiVun]

Two truly GREAT violinists complement each other.

The only guy in my life who ever kept up note-to-note with me in a "challenge" match was an incredibly talented 7th grade Chinese kid from Juilliard that literally could play ANYTHING.

He was the child of two professional violinists and had a violin that cost far more than a Lexus does.

We tore into Bazzini's "Le Ronde De Lutins", harmonics and all. By the time we were done, the auction guys (it was a viewing) were telling us to be quiet because we were offending (i.e. SCARING)the other violinists that were watching!


fa_jing, you know your violin!

I take it that you have Eliot Fisk's recording of the Caprices. I also play guitar and will tell you that the Caprices work better on guitar than violin. The Caprices are guitar pieces transcribed for violin.

Of course I play the Tchaikovsky D major. It's the easiest major violin concerto there is, which is why EVERYBODY seems to play it nowadays.

In fact, I'm preparing it for an audition to be a soloist with a major classical music orchestra in China. I was "discovered" last May by their guys at another auction viewing, and they want me to audition for it.

Heifetz's teacher was Leopold Auer, who was like the Yip Man of violin. I have violinistic lineage to Auer via my teacher Aaron Rosand, himself one of the greatest violinists of the day.

Heifetz does have a scratchy tone at times, and that's because he's playing old fashioned all-gut strings (which I also use when I get the chance) on his gazillion dollar equipment. The gut strings have less volume but far more detail than less sensitive metal strings do. Because recordings overmike people, Heifetz occasionally came out sounding "harsh" on record. But that's what it takes to PROJECT in a big concert hall - a lost art today.

I agree with you, fa_jing, is that Heifetz is a great master. But you should hear ME play.

You just might change your opinion that "nobody can touch Heifetz"!

[Chang Style Novice]

I've said it before, I'll say it again:

Dr. Lakshminarayana Subramaniam

And Paganini Caprices are fast and all, but not that great as music. I find them to be merely technical. Of course, I have little to nothing in the way of musical talent, I am merely an enthusiastic listener.

[fa_jing]

Just crossed the street over to Tower, it's the Saint-Saens Sonata #1 for violin and piano in D minor. The only copy I saw was played by Midori, who is pretty much the opposite of what I consider to be a good violinist. I almost became a classical music geek again just now, but am resisting the temptation. Appreciative listener is a good enough status. Still, it would have been beautiful to play the trombone for a living. But I do like a steady income and regular hours, and don't like associating with only musicians - or only physicists, which is why I got out of that, too. As soon as I make my fortune here in software, I can open up a Kung Fu school and do whatever I want. Anyway I admire all forms of human expression.

[Royal Dragon]

When is someone going to talk revenge???

[fa_jing]

This reply might better go to the "what do you all learn from KFO" thread - I have learned to hijack threads without shame!!! :cool:
It's much easier than creating your own threads and then trying to keep people on topic!

[Royal Dragon]

Hey, they are talking about VIOLIN"S HERE!!!! Everyone knows that threads are hijacked with BACON!!!!

Get it straight people!!!:eek:

[Chang Style Novice]

Although we strive to be peaceful, all martial arts practitioners must be prepared to use violins, should it become neccesary in self defense or the defense of others.

I apologize to everyone for this post.

[Royal Dragon]

Send Bacon Sammitches!!!!;) :p

[Chang Style Novice]

No pork!

Have some Gruyere instead.

[Royal Dragon]

What the Hel*l is Gruyere anyway????

[Chang Style Novice]

Gruyere (http://www.cheese.com/Description.asp?Name=Gruyere)

[Royal Dragon]

Oh, "IIIIII" get it noooooowwwwwww!!!!

And this is better than a Bacon Sammitch........How????????????

[SevenStar]

refer to the thread about MMA cheeses and you will see how.

[Chang Style Novice]

Gruyere is a traditional external or "hard" style cheese, not a mixed cheese. The holes in a Swiss Style cheese of this nature are technically known as "eyes." The cheese is a manifestation of yang nature, and the eyes are a manifestation of yin nature. Although the eyes are literally nothing - are absence itself, in fact, this very property is what gives them their yin-ness. And so, as the yin half of the taiji (grand ultimate) symbol contains a seed, or eye of yang; so the Gruyere cheese wheel contains it's own opposite, the yin of the hole in the swiss cheese.

OOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

[Chowmein]

Jon,
I am a kung fu brother of the 'middle aged western gentleman' you described. He is a student of Sifu Scuffell in Townsville. He said that he met GM William Ho and spoke very highly of him. Were you the one doing the 2 - man drill ? He was very impressed and overwhelmed to meet GM Ho and others there.
The set that he performed was Ba Shi (8 postures).
I think that it is weird that I saw that post on here.
Regards.

Bob.::)

[Royal Dragon]

We correspond all the time. He's a great guy, and very skilled. He actually offered to put me up if I ever wanted to visit him "Down Under".:p

Chowmein,
Is Ba Shi the one that goes "Ward Off, Roll Back, Press, Push, turn 180 degrees and Pull down wile kick, Splitting, Elbow and Hips?"

Jon's description sounds more like the Elbow set to me. I could be wrong though (Wouldn't be the first time) and I wasn't there. Both sets are from the Chao family's Taiji Quan which is taught right along with the Tai Tzu, and has some overlapping material.


Some people (Actually alot) consider anything the Chao family do as Tai Tzu. I like to break it up, and I specifically consider the Northern external to be Tai Tzu Chang Chuan because that is what those who don't practice the entire gambit of Chao family arts recognize. I also consider the internal Tai Tzu Chang Chuan form (Like Lui Yun Chiao's descendants talk about all the time) to be Tai Tzu Chang Chuan as it is built on all the same techniques as the external version, only done with internal mechanics.

I consider the 8 postures, 64 move form, 37 move form and the Elbow set to be the Chao's own brand of Taiji Quan based on the mixing of the 8 postures with the Tai Tzu Chang Chuan form. I used to think it was their own version of the Yang style, till I got my grubby hands on some home shot video of Liu Yun Chaio's set. The resemblance is very clear, and you can see the set defiantly descended form the internal Tai Tzu set. Seeing the Internal set from the North Tai Tzu cleared up alot of confusion for me. I just wish I could compare it to the original 32 move Tai Tzu Chang Chuan form. I'm told the Chao family consider it sacred or something, and only teach it to family or close disciples.

The Southern Tai Tzu and Six Step Monkey boxing are also separate styles practiced by the family. They often (read as usually) get lumped under the Tai Tzu Chang Chuan label too.

[fa_jing]

Originally posted by Chang Style Novice
Although we strive to be peaceful, all martial arts practitioners must be prepared to use violins, should it become neccesary in self defense or the defense of others.

I apologize to everyone for this post.

Try to make sure your attacker has personal liability insurance up to $200, 000 before you whack him with your Stradavarius! :D

[omegapoint]

[
In the case that you study a combat effective art, like GJJ, then YES you should keep it to yourself and only teach those deserving, like close family and friends, or people who you interview beforw tutoring. Just ask the Gracies if it was a good idea to let the world in on groundfighting.

[Chang Style Novice]

Well, let's see. They've lost a few fights, but have been making money hand over fist for about a decade.

YES! It's a GREAT idea!

[Royal Dragon]

You are NOT turning this into a BJJ/MMA thread!!!!!!

Lets talk about Naked grils instaed :D

How about Naked "Got Qi" girls??

[HuangKaiVun]

fa_jing, $200,000 is not even close to what a Stradivarius costs.

You forgot an extra zero before the decimal point. $2 million is more like it.

Besides, my luthier in Schenectady NY can patch any broken violin back together and make it sound BETTER than it ever did. I've watched him piece together violins that were completely crushed. That's because he has the technical training from Hans Nebel, who was with the Wurlitzer firm as their bodyshop repairman. There is NOBODY like my luthier, who can take a <$1000 violin and prepare it for fullblown solo concert hall projection.

By the way, I've played the "Hubay", "Kreisler" (1732), "Duremberg" (1688) Stradivari violins. I also played a 1707 strad with a scroll made by Omobono. All were very fine violins that could've sounded much better if they had better tonal adjustments.

I don't play anything like Midori, but I do not see why you consider her a bad violinist.

In my opinion, she is far and away the most natural and most polished talent of today's concertizing violinists. One does not play Ernst's "Last Rose of Summer" in concert as Midori does and be a bad violinist - not that the "Last Rose" is THAT difficult.

[Chowmein]

Royal Dragon,
Greetings from downunder.........
Yes your description was right. It sounded like the Elbow form but it was definately 8 postures. Graham (the middle aged guy) told us the same story that Jon did. Thats why it was strange to hear it on the forum.
Most consider anything that Chao Kuang Yin created or had a hand in creating to be under the banner of Tai Tzu Quan. We also break up the system to Tai Tzu Chang Quan (northern), Tai Tzu Nan Quan (southern), Chao Family Fist (internal), the 6 Step Monkey style is sometimes a carry on from the southern system, as you go through the southern sets you can start to see the monkey flavor in the sets. As a whole they are considered Tai Tzu Quan. But as Sifu Abel pointed out, there are many names for Tai Tzu.
Have a good one...............

Bob;)

[Royal Dragon]

Royal Dragon,
Greetings from downunder.........
Yes your description was right. It sounded like the Elbow form but it was definately 8 postures. Graham (the middle aged guy) told us the same story that Jon did. Thats why it was strange to hear it on the forum.

Most consider anything that Chao Kuang Yin created or had a hand in creating to be under the banner of Tai Tzu Quan. We also break up the system to Tai Tzu Chang Quan (northern), Tai Tzu Nan Quan (southern), Chao Family Fist (internal), the 6 Step Monkey style is sometimes a carry on from the southern system, as you go through the southern sets you can start to see the monkey flavor in the sets. As a whole they are considered Tai Tzu Quan. But as Sifu Abel pointed out, there are many names for Tai Tzu.
Have a good one...............

Bob

Reply]
Hmm, I have been calling th whole Gambit Chao Family Fist. The internal I call the Chao Family Nei Chuan. If you think about it, it makes more sense that way as the Chao family practices and teaches all those arts as a group.

Yes, I have also heard the Southern system is taught as a primer for the Monkey. It seems that at least part of it is taught as a primer for all the Chao family arts. You usually see the first 3 or 4 forms. I know in some provences in Southern China, you see the entire Southern taught as a stand alone system. I would really hope to get the whole thing some day.