Martial Child Abuse?!

[SolarStance]

What are your opinions on this?

http://www.libertocracy.com/Webessays/Sports/abuse/Martial_Child_Abuse.htm

Hope the link works. I suppose we should consider the source, first...



)))Solar Stance(((

[Chang Style Novice]

I quit reading after ten ad hominem attacks with no supporting evidence. Took about three sentences.

[The Willow Sword]

Children do not need to be thrust into the martial world at an early age. i think it is best to keep them in a state of mind where they are discovering and exploring thier world through nonviolent means. i speak of children between the ages of 5-9.
i have taught children before and even though we all hate sd lets llook past that for a moment. the mix raito of boys to girls was pretty good and the environment was such that brutalization that is usually taught in the adult classes did not trickle down into the kids classes. since sd is a forms school. it really does make for a good childrens program. if all they are learning is forms and feeling good about learning how to move and coordinate themselves. the western mindset with that of our children is very different from that of the east. Kids in the east are raised differently and in most cases ini a more harsh environment. foriegn teachers who try to implement eastern teaching and child rearing methods in the kwoons and the dojos need to step back for a moment and realize that our western kids are NOT likely to be as receptive to the harsh discipline as thier kids are.

MRTWS

[Arhat of Fury]

A woman obviosly wrote that article:D
Not that Im sexist, but its all in the perspective.


:confused: :confused: :confused:

[fa_jing]

My opinion, after looking a little at that "Liberatocracy" site, is that some people have even more time on their hands than we KFO posters.

[KC Elbows]

Wow. All based on one bad incident.

Sorry, but if my child wants to learn something, he'll have the opportunity to learn it the right way. The difference between sparring and abuse is in the context. Sparring is by choice and controlled. Abuse is not consensual, and is controlling.

The internet always cracks me up. Just because you can write an article doesn't mean you should.

[neptunesfall]

"Former students say they..learned fear and humiliation, suffered physical and sexual abuse and watched helplessly as children were physically punished,"

> this is not even a reputable school to begin with, clearly not a school to judge all martial arts by.

"Of course girls, naturally, would never have had any desire to participate in anything like this"

>a wildly inaccurate statement based on gender specific generalizations.

"Girls will not naturally get into fights at all and getting them to do so requires intense manipulation"
>same thing

"As we've seen too often in many dojos, sexual abuse is also quite prevalent."
>again, these schools are not reputable to begin with.


this whole article is nothing but ultra liberal spin and hype. it's crap.
i'm not discrediting that it happens at some "schools", nor am i trying to belittle the fact that it does.
this article is crap because it put all martial arts and competition sports into this category of child abuse.
not to mention portraying women in a submissive, stereotypical way.

[neptunesfall]

ps - it was written by a man. gregory flanagan.

PPS - he copied this article almost completely verbatum:

http://libercratic.government.directnic.com/Journal/culture/sports/tigerkim.htm

[KC Elbows]

Of course they're not very strong on women's issues, after all, they didn't even spell women right for the link to articles on women.

Womin

[neptunesfall]

LMFAO@KC

[KC Elbows]

We're All Tramps Now
U.S. Treatment of Womin Prisoners Condemned
Worldwide study of violence against womin
Women with big bottoms live longer

[KC Elbows]

Germany's Green Party wants legislation to make men do housework

Boys Ordered to sit down to urinate


Is this site a renegade branch of the Onion?:D

[DelicateSound]

it makes forcing children into pornography appear tame by comparison.

Anyone else think this guy's a closet paedophile?

[KC Elbows]

Bring Back Discrimination

The Nature of Law Part III: Law vs. Legislation

Trust in Government Declines

Conservative Or Blockhead?

Why Is There So Much Money in Politics?

The Libertarian Party Screws itself in the Ass

Bush's Dumb-Guy Shtick

New laws will turn EU into a superpower

Raid a house, kick a dog, plug a suspect

War on Drugs; War on Women

Heterophobia hits the Workplace

Marriage Contracts should be Enforceable

Womon chooses Stripping over Sports

Paranoid Censorship of Modestly Sexy Womin

Sexphobes Slander Appropriately Sexy Womin

Nudists are gaining acceptance, but still face oppression

Polygamist Convicted of Bigamy

France persecutes Polygamous Marriages, Breaks up Families

Bush's 'gay Republican' agenda?

Queer Fascists Infiltrate the U.N.

Animal husbandry of a different nature

Public Educators Hate Your Children

Rifle ranges being eliminated from school grounds

Public Schools: Turning Children and Parents into Peons

The Pornographic Cesspool of Pro Wrestling

Dad, Why are they Perverting Boy's and Girl's Behavior?

When coach is a chick

Amazon women take up sumo wrestling

The Degrading of Womin's Aerobics

Becoming an Outdoors Wo-man; Women killing their femininity and becoming sub-primate animals

Womin working long hours outside the home bad for men's health, study shows


:D

This has to be a joke. Really, they've got hundreds of articles just like these.

[SaMantis]

Girls will not naturally get into fights at all and getting them to do so requires intense manipulation

Huh, that's funny, because when I picked that fight with the class bully in the 8th grade she said, "naturally, I'm going to kick your ass." And she really seemed to be enjoying herself the whole time she was kicking my head in.

[Former castleva]

Most that I agree with is that such schools which commit abuse should be shut down and the teaching rights of the instructor(s) taken away (not MA,just done under the name of it)
I think the problem can be very real,but is not probably very significant one in MA...not to say it would not happen.
You know there are competitive,foolish parents which force their children to practice physically&mentally stressful sports against their actual will,winning and succeeding overemphasized.
Never heard of martial arts being even mentioned because it naturally carries lots of good spiritual mindset which is passed on but rather ice hockey and other common sports (the problem is not necessarily the sport but the parents which trough their overly competitive attitude push their children trough the limits)
Author of the article writes some very strange stuff about destruction of feminity etc. which I simply don´t get but what is also a bit strange is how the author assumes that fighting is somewhat natural to boys and that they can go on with that.

". The kids innocently think that martial arts training will turn them into the cool superhuman martial artists they see performing stunts that defy the laws of gravity. "

*cough*


BTW,I wonder what female practitioners have to say about that?


A gigantic generalisation with little research I think.

[DelicateSound]

Man, I love that site.

Completely hypocritical, whilst managing to be patronising and elitist at the same time. A rarity, let me tell you.

And to think I was once mildly Liberal.

Time to start distributing that illegal copy of Mein Kampf then KC?

[SaMantis]

I agree, there are MA schools that abuse kids & adults, but that's caused by the owner & his state of mind, not the art (unless the school is named "Beat-Down Abusive School of Martial Arts, in which case you're asking for it).

There are parents who push their kids to be overly rough, but it isn't just in sparring. There's plenty of jerkwad parents in hockey, soccer, baseball, football, you name it.

On the other end of the spectrum are girls who are told by their parents "You can't play ___ because you're a girl, only boys play that." It's one thing to hear that statement from other children; but when parents say it they're putting a limit on their kid's potential. If a girl wants to play football or try sparring, why not?

[neptunesfall]

Completely hypocritical, whilst managing to be patronising and elitist at the same time.

LOL, kinda like ralek

[KC Elbows]

"Becoming an Outdoors Wo-man; Women killing their femininity and becoming sub-primate animals"

:D

That one just cracks me up.

The funny thing is, I'm not so sure that they are more liberal than conservative. Not that their moderate in any way shape or form, but they're all over the place as far as political beliefs.

They're against big government(conservative), want women to stay at home(extreme conservative), want governmentally sponsored insane levels of safety(extreme liberal), want money out of politics(?) but hate campaign finance reform, want drugs legalized(liberal), want ****sexuals out of everything(conservative), want more women in cheerleading and stripping, and less women in basketball, and, apparently most importantly of all, want to find a relation between anything and pedophilia, sort of like the six degrees of Kevin Bacon game, but with pedophilia as the target.

Not to mention they have a link for both "government" and "politics", and their most extensive link is "perversity".

This "party" is like a catch-all for pchizophrenic extremists who have hidden issues regarding children.

Though I still think it's a big joke, like Landover Baptist Church.

[neptunesfall]

and wtf is "sexation"?

[KC Elbows]

That's their term for sex education. I haven't figured out if they're for or against it, but they are thoroughly against premarital sex, as it prevents women from controlling men somehow, I couldn't quite make out the specifics in the modern arrangement that took power away from women, as my wife told me to stop reading that rubbish, and she means now.

[ewallace]

Former students say they..learned fear and humiliation, suffered physical and sexual abuse and watched helplessly as children were physically punished
So essentially being in a martial arts youth program is kind of like going to a catholic school?

[KC Elbows]

"Womin working long hours outside the home bad for men's health, study shows"

It's because they get home so late, and the man goes to bed with partially undigested bacon sammich in his belly, **** womin. Or is it womon?

[KC Elbows]

Here it is:

"Judge Orders God To Break Up Into Smaller Deities"

[KC Elbows]

When the Babes Beat Up the Boys
Violent, unwomanly, man hating wh[0]res are all the vogue.

[NorthernMantis]

lol Hey K C my man Sa is a girl:D

[Lisa]

"and wtf is "sexation"?"

I don't know. It's not in their glossary. However, "femon", "femoperation", and "femotion" are. The glossary can be found here:

http://www.libertocracy.com/definitions.htm#sectS

And it's a good thing they have that glossary because the dictionary seems to have forgotten some of those terms.

[Ryu]

You know what's annoying?

Read the link to the WWE and sexual degradation of women, etc... I actually "agree" about what that article was trying to get across, but because of the blatent yellow journalism, ignorant name calling, and rambling on and on while using "****" and w-Hore" every three words it makes me sick to my stomach that I even agree with the concept of what is being talked about LOL

Ugh...

This is why people who try honestly to speak on certain realities of morality and value and the cause and effect of these things are sometimes seen as "right wing" blowhards who have no education on such matters. It's a damm shame.

People who have no skill in communication, articulation, reasoning, and debate should not be allowed to speak.
Constitution or not! :D

Ryu

[NorthernMantis]

Wo-man (p. we-men) - A subject of or follower after or imitater of men. Woman means "out of man." In Genesis Adam says: "She shall be called woman, because she was taken out of man."

Womon (p. womin) - A normal, natural feminine, adult female, meaning one with a womb.

lol man wha'ts worng with these people, they soudn psycho

[DelicateSound]

So basically, it doesn't matter what the issue is, as long as they can make a subtley perverse link with either:

1) Feminism.
2) Paedophilia.
3) ****sexuality.

Then they're happy?




If I find a leaning towards donkey-fellating showgirls, then this is definitely Rolls' Mom's homepage.

[Lisa]

"lol man wha'ts worng with these people, they soudn psycho"

Maybe they didn't receive enough "mammurcher" as children?

Mammurcher- see glossary

[Royal Dragon]

I lost it about 1/3 of the way through the Tiger Kim stuff, but I was suffering the whole way.

I liked the comparisen between Kid's martial arts progams and Coc*k fihting, Dog fighting and Bull Fighting. As if theses Kids are going to the hospital after every class or something :rolleyes:

Oh, in a Bull fight, the bull DIES!!! I don't think parents would send their kids to a class where their Kids will die at every class.:rolleyes:

It's like they think people don't really care about their kids, and knowingly and purposefully expose their children to extreme danger.

I taught Kid's for years, I all that time (were talking Thousands taught here) I never had a major injury, and the minor ones included a sprained ankle from tripping over the threashold in the doorway wile leaving class, and one very minor hyper extended elbow from punching wrong (She was fine next class).

Oh yeah, I almost forgot, a row of lockers fell on a Kid the very first time I taught a class by myself as head instructor. He needed 2 stitches in the back of his head where it hit the bench behind the lockers. He was in the locker room, alone (as in "Slowpoke" and all the other kids had already left) changing after class when it happened. It had nothing to do with the lesson.

Oh, I almost forgot another one. One of my kids sucsessfully fought of a sexual preditor by punching him directly in the eye once. Her little fist fit into his eye socket so perfectly it temporarily blinded him as good a peppergass. I got a stuffed bear in a Karate Gi as a thank you for teaching her to do that (It says KI'AAAaa!! when you press his paw).

Another student fought off an adult that was attacking her grown up older brother, and pushed him into traffic. He almost got hit by a car, and it gave her brother the moments he needed to center himself and sucsessfully protect himself and his little sister.

The adult attacker in this situation stole my students sled of all things and her brother went to get it back. It wasn't even a kid that stole the sled, but his dad.

As for injuries in class actually caused by the training, nothing (except the minor hyperextended elbow mentioned above) from 1994-2001 when I closed my kids classes due to my health problems.

[Budokan]

"It's because they get home so late, and the man goes to bed with partially undigested bacon sammich in his belly." --KC


ROFLMGAO @ KC!!! Man, that's so godd*mn f*cking funny I just about hyperventilated from laughing so hard!!!

Good thing there was a "womon" there to help me catch my breath and get me back on my feet. I thanked her, slapped her on her a$$ and said, "Thanks, baby."

[Royal Dragon]

"Good thing there was a "womon" there to help me catch my breath and get me back on my feet. I thanked her, slapped her on her a$$ and said, "Thanks, baby.""

Reply]
If she was a good Womin, She'da had a BARE A*ss, and a Bacon Sammitch for you to make you feel better!!!


So, was she a Good womin???:eek:

[Budokan]

Why, of course she was a *good* womon. (Budokan shifts his package and spits a stream of tobacco juice onto the ground) I even bounced a few quarters off her BARE behind before I asked her better-lookin' sister out on a date. As I wuz leavin' her house I slapped her momma on the tail (who was offerin' me a heaping plate of bacon sammiches, I may add) and said I'd be back to bang her later, too.

Yep, a womon who serves good bacon sammiches sho'nuff is hard to find nowadays....

Nevertheless, I bet I'm still gettin' more tail than that feminized momma's boy who wrote that there article. Okay, maybe it's sheep tail, but beggars can't be choosers, you know? I done et all my pigs cuz I ground 'em into bacon sammiches for me and my crew.

That's the way it is in shotokan, fellas. You gotta be down with the lifestyle or you might as well change your gi out for a spangled dance outfit, grow a mullet and do katas to Britney Spears' songs....

[SaMantis]

When the Babes Beat Up the Boys

LOL, that bully was equal opportunity -- she'd kick in your head whether you were a boy or a girl!

BTW, I make a mean-ass bacon sammich...just ask my man here.

Oh hang on, he's got a bit of a stomachache. :D