Full contact and head-aches

[NPMantis]

Hi everyone,

Does anyone here get light head-aches after sparring full contact and if so have you noticed any long-term damage?

It doesn't feel right and I don't intend doing it regularly but does anyone have any good advice?

Cheers,

NPM

[SevenStar]

I've never had a headache after sparring full contact. I imagine it can happen if you get clocked hard enough. How ofter do you spar full contact? you don't want to do it too much - no more than once a week, if that.

[dnc101]

If you take full contact shots to the head, even with protective gear, headaches are normal. So is brain dammage after too many of those (try to hold an intelligent conversation with a boxer :)) I took a moderate contact kick to the head last evening and I was up all night at the pill bottle.

If the headaches aren't from getting hit, try some relaxation techniques before you go at it(Tai Chi or chigong, or some other meditation if you do that).

Also, you might get one of those double mouthguards. Get the good quality type that are specifically designed to reduce stress and shock of impact to the Temporomandibular joint.

If they persist I'd suggest seeing a doctor. There are a lot of conditions that could easily be aggrivated by even light trauma or shock to the head, and none of them are minor affairs.

[dre]

"try having intellegent converstions with a Boxer"

I have. A professional one.

Not that I don't belive it dosen't cause damage.

[fa_jing]

I got rocked once, my legs quivered and my head felt bad for a week. I hope to avoid that in the future. I can take a regular hit, but no more knockout punches, please. Because I'd like to spar for many many years, till I'm 40 like my sifu. And still have longevity and my brain power.

[logic]

I took a few shots to the head when I was boxing and full contact fighting.

I get dizzy, loss of direction and balance, sick to the stomic.
I don't go full contact anymore(The doc says I can't if I wanna save my brain).Plus 7 stitches under my eye isn't any fun.
Sleep is the best medicine for those head shots.

What dnc101 said is a smart idea, have a mouth piece if your going to go full contact.

[HuangKaiVun]

How's your breath control, NPMantis?

Light sparring in and of itself shouldn't hurt anybody.

Doing breath control while fighting helps a person release his jing as well as take hits from the opponent.

Without breath control, even shadowboxing can be a real headache.

[jmd161]

Are you wearing a head Guard?

Do you wear a mouth piece?

seems like simple questions , but not everyone spars with these simple devices.

"duh" I know form experience :(

But it could be a lot of things not just hard shots you've taken.Be safe not "SORRY" check with a doctor anyway.

You never really know? not trying to scare you ,but keep you aware. we usually wait until symptoms get real bad before we seek help.

I wish Bruce Lee would have went to a doctor when his headache started he would still be here.

just my .02 sents though:)

jmd161:)

[Liokault]

If you get hit in the head expect head aches!!!

In terms of long term damage i understand that while any real head contact will damage a certain amount of brain cells real damage is done when prior blows have been tacken.

So if your sparing and take a hard one ....feel even slightly concused then stop.

I also belive that you should spar within your ability and fitness as if you spar past the point that you can defend your head (i.e rais your arms to guard) you should stop.

I have been looking in to this alot as we sparr full contact ofton and i rely on my brain for a living (lend me a tenner guv)

Sadly my training is not always reflected by the statments i have made above!!

[logic]

Jmd161

Good advise,
Welcome to the K.F.O. forum.
21 years in the martial arts, thats cool, I 'm sure you have a lot to offer.

but I think Bruce Lee died from an allergic reaction from some medication he was taking at the time.

[jmd161]

logic,

Thanks for the welcome to the boards.

Yes Bruce Lee did die from an allergic reaction ,but from what i heard he complained of a headache before he took the pills to go relax.

I hope i can give some good advice or at least different points of view sometimes.

jmd161:)

[Water Dragon]

Is your neck sore for a day or so too? If so, you might not be holding your head correctly. Been there, done that :(

[SevenStar]

Since WD mentioned the neck - It could also be a neck strength issue. The neck acts as a shock absorber when you take shots to the dome.

[NPMantis]

Hi,

Thanks a lot for all your replies. You pretty much said what I thought anyway. I don't really like taking hits to the head, I was wearing a head guard and the other guy has 10 oz gloves on but after a dozen (medium power) shots to the head it started to hurt a little. I exercise my neck anyway, I wouldn't say it was really powerful but it's certainly not weak.

I think I'm just going to avoid it, I don't mind hits to the body (we usually spar with no gloves and take medium power hits to the body) but not to the head.

Thanks again for al your help, really appreciate it!

Take care,

NPM

[Nichiren]

Here's my input on the subject:

1. Think defense, not offense while sparring full-contact
2. Always think of balance, e.g. don't lean back
3. Do boxer neck-exercises, even if you get hit you don't get your head snapped back(or sideways)
4. Try to see the punch coming, even if you get clocked you can roll with the punch (the KOs are often never seen)

/Cheers

[Water Dragon]

10 oz gloves? Well, there's your answer right there. I don't like getting hit with wet bags of concrete either :(

[iron man]

i've never had a headache after full contact sparring and i hope i never do

[fa_jing]

You have to train with someone you trust, and you have to know when to stop for a minute or stop completely, so you don't get hurt. A dozen medium-power shots is too many.

[KC Elbows]

Headgear and gloves are not always helpful in preventing hits that move the head a lot. After all, your head is bigger with gear, and may get hit more often, and the gloves make the striking surface larger, which spreads the force, sure, but it makes it so that what would normally miss the hid now does hit, and so the head can be moved more, at least in theory.

That being said, I'm not against head gear, I just don't put any confidence in its ability to protect me when I have it on. Either I'm covering my head, or I'm taking unnecessary risks.

[Ray Pina]

BE CAREFUL.

Can't stress enough training with someone you trust to hold back when they know they really have you -- no need to follow through with that tight crooss when your hands are locked up. Break a lot, make it seem excessive and unneccessary. Better safe then sorry.

Well, I know telling a dedicated MA not to fight is pointless. So:

I never experinced headaches after fighting, but use to get them all the time when I played football. I use to take two advil before hitting the field. I don;t know if it was mental or not, but it worked for the time being. No stopping next day pain after a game at nose tackle. One just learnes to live with it.

Funny thing now, when I was learning S Mantis, every class was taught with gloves and headgear, every once in a while no headgear and just body shots but things slip.

Now that I study internal, I've been doing less fighting and more self study of where I get the power. But I think its important to go through that stage of fighting to see what's real. To learn about momentum and how to greet force. There's no substitute. JUST BE CAREFUL!

[Ma_Xu_Zha]

use ice it helps a great deal with those aches and pains. also soak in epson salt bath.

[Ray Pina]

Epson salt, there you go. That works wonders. Ice is a given.

[Ford Prefect]

Last time I was sparring full contact regularly was when I was boxing 5 years ago. I'd have at least one headache a week after practice (5 days a week), but no long term effects have shown up. Of course I pee my pants now, but it must be unrelated...

[SanShou Guru]

Don’t ignore headaches if they last into the next day. I’ve been sparring full contact for 10 years and on the few times I have had a headache for more than a day I stopped for at least a week after the headache went away. The last time I took off three weeks because the headache lasted for five days on a off. We had a student get a concussion recently and I sat him for 6 weeks. Protect your brain.

I tell my students that if they are and amateur and get KO’ed twice they are done training with me. Pro’s can do what they want because it is their living. In over 250 fights my students have not been KO’ed in the ring but a few have gotten their bell’s rung hard enough that they were on no contact for 6 to 10 weeks. After even a small concussion you brain is susceptible to what is called “Second Impact Syndrome”, that is when a second head impact within a few weeks causes sudden brain swelling and can result in death. Many of the fighters that have died of brain injuries in the ring have been because of this.

Info:

Concussion (traumatic brain injury)
A concussion occurs when the head sustains a hard blow and the impact jars or shakes the brain inside the skull. The rapid movement interrupts the brain's normal activities. Although there may be cuts or bruises on the head or face, there may be no other signs of a brain injury.

Symptoms of a concussion usually include any of the following changes in the person's level of consciousness, such as:

Brief loss of consciousness.
Inability to remember what happened immediately before and after the injury (amnesia).
Confusion.
Asking the same question over and over.
Dizziness, vertigo, lightheadedness, or unsteadiness that prevents standing or walking.
Blurred or double vision.
Ringing in the ears (tinnitus).

Symptoms of concussion can be mild to severe, depending on the severity of the injury. If the injury is more serious, symptoms will usually develop within the first 24 hours after the accident. Symptoms may last for days, weeks, or even months following the injury.


Brain bruise (contusion)

Brain tissue can be bruised when the head sustains a hard blow and the impact creates a sudden movement of the brain within the skull. The brain can strike the skull with enough force to cause a bruise (contusion) in the brain tissue.

Brain tissue swells and bleeds when the brain is bruised. As the brain tissue swells and blood builds up, pressure within the skull increases and may damage brain tissue.


Bleeding within or around the brain

Bleeding within or around the brain is dangerous because there is little extra room inside the skull. As blood builds up, pressure increases inside the skull, compressing and damaging the brain tissue. The 3 most common types of bleeding are:

Subdural hematoma occurs when there is bleeding from a torn vein into the space (subdural space) between the brain and the layer of tissue (dura) that separates the brain from the skull. The bleeding can be either minor or severe, causing a slow or rapid increase in pressure within the skull. Symptoms of this type of bleeding may develop within minutes, hours, or occasionally weeks after the injury.

Intracerebral hematoma is bleeding directly into brain tissue, pushing tissues against the bones of the skull. Depending on the severity of the injury or stroke, symptoms of this type of bleeding may develop quickly or over a period of days.

Epidural hematoma occurs when there is bleeding from a torn artery into the space (epidural space) between the skull and the layer of tissue (dura) that separates the brain from the skull. The bleeding can be severe, causing a rapid increase in pressure within the skull. The victim may be unconscious at first, regain consciousness, and then lose consciousness again. (This type of injury is rare in young children.)

[LEGEND]

Never ever spar someone with 10 oz gloves...it should be 16 oz gloves! Plus...10 oz or less are used in actual boxing matches...u're not getting paid to do this!

[TenTigers]

I used to play full contact, and when the headaches started, I stopped. Evry time I got clocked, and we're not talking KO'd, just getting your bell rung a little, I was STUPID for the rest of the night, and the next day, I had headaches.
Headgear or no headgear, every time you take a shot to the head, your head snaps back, and your brain rocks back and slams into your cranium. Damage occurs EVERYTIME. I had a former student, who was very talented in hockey. He played in adult legues at 16, and from being slammed into the boards, and taking some head shots, he developed seizure disorder. Now, if he gets KO'd, he can die. If he gets jarred, he can go into seizure and die. If he doesn't maintain his blood sugar levels, he can go into seizure, and die. This happened once, and he had close to a grande mal seizure. I cradled his head in my arms until it passed, got him some food and got him home. Not a good thing. Now,this kid still as far as I know studies martial arts(not with me)and he's flirting with death. If he even holds a kicking shield for someone who can kick with decent power, he's gonna get rocked. Not very smart. So make a choice, and depending on how much brain damage you've already incurred, the answer should be obvious, one way or the other.

[Nichiren]

I think SanShou Guru has a point, good post.

When I was amateur boxing (13 years ago) there where certain knockout rules. If you got KO:ed you were forced to rest from sparring and competition for 3 months, the second time 6 months and the third time for 1 year (I also think the license was under review after the third time). I can't remember the time intervalls between the KOs.

It is important that the kwoons SiFu (SanShou Guru) takes responsibility for imposing a similar action.

/Cheers

[Ford Prefect]

Listen to guru. He's been around and known his tish.

[fa_jing]

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/steelers/2002-09-24-webster-obit_x.htm

[NPMantis]

Thanks a lot for all your help, I am going to be a lot more careful about it from now on, I don't think I'll do any more sparring with gloves - kung fu is after all just a hobby for me.

Thanks again for your help, very much appreciated.

[neptunesfall]

excellent information, sanshou guru.