Training Time

[JK Walz]

Maybe this has been asked before but I am just curious:

How many days per week and hours per day do you spend training? I mean actually training in a kwoon with others...not at home doing SNT, CK, or BJ.

JK

[desertwingchun2]

Probably not as much time as you do! Wish I could though. I would say I train appx 12 - 15 hours a week at the kwoon and countless others at home.

[red5angel]

JK Walz - are you asking to find out how much you should be training or how much people train in general?

For myself, I train 2-4 hours a day depending on the day, usually an hour or two in the morning and the same in evening when I get home from work.

[Savi]

I consistently cross train the YM and HFY (both daily) 6 days a week (sometimes 7 when there are seminars), between 18 minimum and 25 max hrs a week also. 5 classes per week day and 2 classes on Sunday. These times are strictly in the school only.

-Savi.

[reneritchie]

For those who practice more than one version of WCK, what is it that makes you keep practicing both (or more), rather than focusing on 1? Do you find each has unique elements that you wouldn't want to be without?

And for those who train a lot of hours every week, what sacrifices in terms of family, work, or other activities are there, and how do you reconcile them? And how do you make your training as efficient as possible to still have some semblance of a life? (Or are you all independantly wealthy unmarried single child orphans? ;) )

RR

[red5angel]

"(Or are you all independantly wealthy unmarried single child orphans? )"

I wish!!! For me it is some sacrifice but that is what life is anyway. You cant do everything you want to do so you have to prioritize.
During the week I do most of my training in the morning so it is out of the way of my daily schedule. On the weekends it is easier because I can get up early (My wife is a late sleeper) and get most of it and done and have breakfast ready for myself and my wife before she wakes up!
This is of course flexible to some degree. If I have something important to do on a weeknight I may just get in about 20 minutes of SLT or something before bed. On vacations I normally cut down to about an hour a day in the mornings.
I have found too that once these things become routine you adjust. I still have a social life, I may not be hitting the clubs thursday through sunday but I get to hang with friends and go do what I want to do when I want.

[UltimateFighter]

Are are a lot of people bull****ting the amount of hours they put in?

[UltimateFighter]

LOL. I think that the internet is about as truthfull as a bunch of anonymous people inventing stories to inflate their low self esteem.........wait a minute

[red5angel]

UF- you shouldnt doubt so much. If it would make you happy you can always email my roommate my neighbor or my wife to confirm. The amount of time I put in may seem like a lot to you but isnt there anything you do that you put alot of time into? My top three priorities look like this:

1.) My wife
2.)Wingchun
3.) the rest....

I enjoy my training time and I dont like to miss it unless I have to. think about how much better you would be if you doubled your training time, or how much better I would be if I doubled mine.

[reneritchie]

r5a - Do you have any children? If not, do you think you will tone down your practice time further to spend time with them? (I personally intend to spend tons of quality time with my children one day, which is part of the reason I try to work extra hard now, before they get here 8) ).

Also, are your roomate and wife mutually exclusive eye-witnesses? ;)


RR

[red5angel]

RR - no kids yet. My plan is to get as much training as I can in the next few years before we have kids so that when we do I can tone it down. I think I will have to go to the morning workouts and forget about the evening workouts at that time, but we will have to see.
As for witnesses, the only real witnesses I may have are all friends or relatives of some sort and some training buddies. I just dont think to discount someone because they workout more then myself like some are quick to apparently do. Wingchun is a priority in my life, like other hobbies may be for other people. I will be the first to admit I have sacrificed a lot to get in the training I want but that is life. Its not always easy and we dont always get to do everything we want. I know some lucky people who are training 5-6 hours a day, and sometimes more. If I could work it I would be doing that too I think.

[HuangKaiVun]

I don't set aside time to train specifically.

At all hours of waking, I just go into my moves. Anytime, anywhere, against any object.

[UltimateFighter]

The original question was about training hours excluding solo practice. I do a lot of solo training of chainpunches/forms etc but I can only fit in 2 - 3 classes per week with others, each of which is 2 1/2 hours. I think this is enough however and although WingTsun is my ONLY past time at the moment (I am thinking of taking up the Judo again to get by black belt as well), I don't have too much time on my hand since I am at Uni. Solo training with another person at chi-sau/sparring is a good way to train away from class if you can do it. If I had a wife, my priorities would probably be totally different though......

[reneritchie]

HKV is most correct, which is why the challenger, despite training 11 hours a day for his third attempt, still failed.

RR

[red5angel]

If we are talking hours training wth other people, I do 5-6 hours of class time a week, train with a buddy 4 hours a week and another classmate 1 hour a week over lunch. the 4 hours trianing with my buddy replaces some of my own personal training time.

[Savi]

Rene,
Actually I find both YM and HFY mutually beneficial to understanding combat, philosophy, and health. It is very very difficult to understand HFY if only looking from modern day WC eyes because HFY looks quite different. Most can concur with this assumption right?

This was my first impressions/opinions/observations about HFY. When I first looked at HFY 2 years ago I noticed many more PARALLELS to Shaolin 5 animals in the hand expressions and body mechanics. The HFY footwork seemed to contradict YMWC footwork with regards to having parallel feet. One leg was opened to the side? I wondered what this was all about. I most certainly did not understand what I was seeing, but noticing the parallels to Shaolin Kung Fu drew my interest. The more I was exposed to the HFY, the more I also saw how much of YM's WC was in it. Again I am listing in this paragraph what I thought/observed 2 years ago. It was the Hau Chun San Sao that brought me to the paradigm, and to be truthful that is the only way anyone can come to that paradigm.

Does it get confusing at times training both? Not at all. The operational use of HFY is soley unique to itself. YM techniques cannot work with HFY footwork and HFY techniques cannot work with YM footwork. The geometry and energetics of the body must match the expressions of only the HFY or only the YMWC. To do otherwise (mix) is to do neither. They both must stay pure or there can be no understanding. In the HFYWCK perspective, either you have 100% true knowledge (also the 1st wisdom of the Shaolin temple) of HFYWCK or you don't have it at all, and it is no longer HFY.

Another reason I train both is for my kung fu brothers and sisters/family (currently over 250 members). I have many close and good friends that nurture my kung fu in both systems, so I do the same in return. It's a strong symbiotic relationship. If I were to leave one, we both suffer. In addition just because one WC has more to offer on top of what the other can offer, they are two different creatures with two different identities despite their similarities. (ex. the difference between ape and man- two arms, two legs, two eyes, etc...even though some people are just as hairy.) I started in the YMWC and into the black sash levels to date. I have to finish what I've started to understand YMWC 100%. Until then I only represent and present what I know. The same goes for HFY.

How do I find time to train all these hours per week? Time has always been there. I just got lucky in organizing my life the way it is. Time for Kung Fu, Time for personal life, Time for work. All are balanced for me so I feel very fortunate. I just have to push myself to fully benefit from what the time used is offering.

[reneritchie]

Hi Savi,

Most of the time, my experience has been different ways of trying to do the same thing. For example, when I spent some time doing Bagua and Xingyi, I found that while distinct, unique, and beautiful in their own right, they were just different paths up the same mountain and I might as well pick one (WCK) lest my trip end up being more horizontal than vertical. I'm sure I missed out on many a keen insight or unique discovery, but in the end, I'm happy with how things have been going. On the other hand, when I went back and did some more Judo in college (needed PE credit and thought it more beneficial than basketball ;) ) it was different enough in kind that I could just relax and enjoy it the way someone else might golf or paint ball.

> It is very very difficult to understand HFY if only looking from modern day WC eyes

As you probably know, I don't put much stock into the 'modern day WC' stuff, be it from any lineage (and they all seem to claim it one way or another). IMHO, we are all built on the foundation of what came before and exist in the modern moment of our own realization. I do think its difficult to understand *anything* from a different perspective, however.

> Most can concur with this assumption right?

Since I was exposed to HFY in the environment of the Friendship Seminars, where people from different lineages were all showing different interpretations, I didn't really have any big problem with it, especially when Marty Goldberg was doing a bit of a back and forth at the same time (and I didn't have that big a problem with his stuff since at a previous seminar Ray Van Raamsdonk showed an empty-knife set from another lineage that had many parallels, and so on...) In the end, its like looking at a person. If you love them, you see their beauty. If you aren't fond of them, you may see their ugliness. Same face, different focus. If you want similarity, you can always find it. If you want difference, you can find that as well.

And I envy your organizational skills. I work on a changing schedule (some days early, some late) and am also on round-the-clock call. Add to that a family that deserves/demands some time (including a 4 1/2 year old brother who always wants to play 8) ) and despite my best efforts, I seem to have to beg and borrow any small moment (or maybe every small moment) to train.

RR

[Savi]

Is there only one peak on your kung fu mountain? I tend to disagree with your thoughts on all paths lead to the same destination.

Certain paths can only take you so far. Does elementary school take you all the way to your current profession? Can a home telescope see the same things the Hubble Telescope can? Can a canoe take you to Europe? This same perspective applies to the HFY and other WC. (I don't mean to belittle your thoughts if it seems so, please don't misinterpret me.) All these examples have parallels, but the differences are far outweighed in results.

Both of us could go on and on with examples, but until you have travelled the path of HFY, do you really know where it goes? Does anybody know [who has not gone] where the HFY path leads to? Until we walk this path, its only hearsay. I know for certain the HFY path is different from the YMWC path because I'm travelling the YMWC path as is my reference. You cannot assume the HFY path has the same destination.

[reneritchie]

Hey Savi,

I don't take your words as belittlement. I don't see myself in them. I simply hope you appreciate my perspective to the degree you'd like me (or anyone) to appreciate yours.

I disagree with your disagreement, and find it a little apples and oranges. If we're speaking strictly martial arts, then for me there is one mountain. If we want to subset that into spirituality or physical attainment or any other goal, I'm fine with that, but I think using things like kindergarten vs. university assumes a tremendous amount of omniscience no one here likely possesses.

How many paths must I travel? I've seen Bagua that bordered on magical, Xingyi that was breathtaking, BJJ that left me shaking my head, Escrima that left me nodding it, nevermind transcendant WCK, and a dozen other arts under a dozen other experts that were mind boggling. How many must I travel?

Perhaps you're right. Perhaps some choose destinations of competition or of collecting, of health or of commerce, of fighting or of self-defense. Perhaps some also confuse the scenery and the twists and turns along the way for differences at the end. Guess we'll have a pic nic when it's all said and done and compare travel logs. 8)

RR

[taltos]

Although I don't train as often as I'd like at the school, I do get in 10-20 hours a week (although only about half of that is actually at the school).

We don't have any kids, and my wife and I have both finally got college out of the way, but simply being married can cause some problems.

Our solution... we joined together. On the same day. We have progressed together, and we are able to discuss Wing Chun principles, strategies, tactics, and theory whenever we want, plus we have built-in partners for drilling and critiquing when we are not at the school. I really don't see how either of us would have made it this far (5 years running) if one of us had not been involved.

-Levi

[Savi]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by reneritchie
[B]Hey Savi,

I don't take your words as belittlement. I don't see myself in them. I simply hope you appreciate my perspective to the degree you'd like me (or anyone) to appreciate yours.

-I do, but I was trying to clarify my attitude so as not to be offensive. That's all. :)

I disagree with your disagreement, and find it a little apples and oranges. If we're speaking strictly martial arts, then for me there is one mountain. If we want to subset that into spirituality or physical attainment or any other goal, I'm fine with that, but I think using things like kindergarten vs. university assumes a tremendous amount of omniscience no one here likely possesses.

Can you clarify your statement? Do you mean all martial arts will lead to the top? If you subset the martial arts with regard to the path, where do they go then?

How many paths must I travel? I've seen Bagua that bordered on magical, Xingyi that was breathtaking, BJJ that left me shaking my head, Escrima that left me nodding it, nevermind transcendant WCK, and a dozen other arts under a dozen other experts that were mind boggling. How many must I travel?

How many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop? There's only one way to find out. Have you tried any paths at least? (I honestly don't know your martial background)

Perhaps you're right. Perhaps some choose destinations of competition or of collecting, of health or of commerce, of fighting or of self-defense. Perhaps some also confuse the scenery and the twists and turns along the way for differences at the end. Guess we'll have a pic nic when it's all said and done and compare travel logs. 8)

What is your position on this then? Do you have an opinion on Hung Fa Yi's history/legitemacy? I'd like to know what your thoughts are about this since I mentioned HFY is the last (2nd to last?) post.

[reneritchie]

Hi Savi,

Have you had the chance to meet really top notch people from a variety of martial arts? Really good Southern Mantis or Chen Taiji or Okinawan Karate or Brazillian Jiu-Jitsu or Escrima, etc.? I first learned Judo (starting when I was 6 or so) from an Olympic level Judoka who'd coached national level teams. If he could get a grip on you, it was magic. Since then, I've met a lot of folks, some out and out frauds, a lot of average but dedicated practitioners, and a few truly superlative souls. Funnily enough, they didn't all come from the same 'style' or 'system'. Maybe this is a 'gradual' vs. 'sudden' thing, or maybe these people saw potential and ran with it.

Now maybe someone wants to study SPM just for health, or Kali just for exercise, or BJJ just for sport, or WCK just for a social activity, or Aiki just for spiritualism, and have no interest in self-defense or any other aspect, and IMHO good for them. More power to them. For them it doesn't matter if they climb the mountain or not, they found a place of contentment.

As I said previously, I've trained, in one time or another, in judo, submission grappling, karate, xingyi, bagua, wushu changquan, and for a little while now in WCK. I could still be doing all of them, still waiting to see which one might get me to 94% rather than 92% or 89%, but I decided I needed to pick one and stick with it. See, I'm happy to find out how many licks it takes to get to the center of a tootsie pop. Too many tootsie pops, however, might cause a insulen dump. 8)

As to HFY, it's a difficult topic since there are a group of people online who are very passionate about it and while they're happy enough to themselves explore and offer opinions on the history/legends of WCK (Ng Mui, etc.) they seem to get rather riled when their own views are discussed.

In general, though, you have to understand that every sifu has his/her story, and all insist it is the absolute truth from on high (whether it be a close student of Yip Man on the Ng Mui story, or one of the more eccentric folks on the 'White Tiger WCK'). I come across people who claim to do Tibetan WCK (and claim WCK originated there, of course) and all sorts of stuff and, in the absense of multiple sources, no one should assume that they are or aren't correct. They remain unproven. If I can't find Fut Sao apart from Henry Leung, or White Tiger WCK apart from Doo Wai, or HFY apart from Garrett Gee, then to me, they remain a mystery, and my opinion doesn't matter.

In specific, I think, like most sifu's accounts, Gee sifu's history has some intriguing elements, and also like most sifu's accounts, some elements that ring more legend than history. In the end, if we get that time-travel video camera working, I think we'll find most hi/stories to be just that - a blend of historical fact with cultural fable.

As to legitimacy, IMHO you don't need history to be legitimate. Is your art consistent? (Both without and within - ie. does the talk match the walk). And, can you use it? Those, IMHO, are the important parts.

(BTW - I recognize the all to human need to think you have the bestest most coolest ever toy in the whole universe and to rush to playground to taunt all the other kids about it, who, even if they have similar toys, just can't have them to the degree of awesom coolosity that we do (and why won't they understand that!!!!) - and recognizing it, I try to work around it as best as possible, though its seldom easy.)

RR

[Savi]

Have you had the chance to meet really top notch people from a variety of martial arts? Really good Southern Mantis or Chen Taiji or Okinawan Karate or Brazillian Jiu-Jitsu or Escrima, etc.? I first learned Judo (starting when I was 6 or so) from an Olympic level Judoka who'd coached national level teams. If he could get a grip on you, it was magic. Since then, I've met a lot of folks, some out and out frauds, a lot of average but dedicated practitioners, and a few truly superlative souls. Funnily enough, they didn't all come from the same 'style' or 'system'. Maybe this is a 'gradual' vs. 'sudden' thing, or maybe these people saw potential and ran with it.
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-Top notch? Not too many... I have met Jackie Chan at his "I am Jackie Chan" book signing in Seattle, WA in '98 (I think it was that year). I got a few chances to cater to Sitaigung Moy Yat and his wife when they came to AZ. I've met Sitaigung Garret Gee who is the world leader and inheritor of the HFY system quite a few times. I know Sigung Benny Meng, Sifu Richard Loewenhagen, and their disciples whom are some of the best in the world (not just in the WC world, and I'm not being partial!).
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Now maybe someone wants to study SPM just for health, or Kali just for exercise, or BJJ just for sport, or WCK just for a social activity, or Aiki just for spiritualism, and have no interest in self-defense or any other aspect, and IMHO good for them. More power to them. For them it doesn't matter if they climb the mountain or not, they found a place of contentment.
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-What about YOU though? :) You say nothing of yourself in the 2nd paragraph other than your opinion about other people's contentments. Can you clarify what you mean by "just for a social activity" ? It sounds like you're implying people take up this martial art for just conversation? Obviously there are many types of martial arts that offer a variety of benefits, and as you say "good for those" who find their place of contentment. But what about the others who continue to pursue past what they originally thought/sought? Which type are you if you don't mind commenting? :) I myself decided to begin in martial arts (Yang Tai Chi for 5 years) originally for the sake of having something to pass on to my future children. After the first year learning Tai Chi I also began learning the Shaolin 5 animals. Today that original intent has grown exponentially into one of opening a school of my own. I see that intention still progressing into something even more grand than that! So, in terms of contentment, I feel most definitely content with the track that I am on. But in terms of settling for what I was looking for originally, I found that was not enough. It is the Weng Kiu I am striving for.
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As I said previously, I've trained, in one time or another, in judo, submission grappling, karate, xingyi, bagua, wushu changquan, and for a little while now in WCK. I could still be doing all of them, still waiting to see which one might get me to 94% rather than 92% or 89%, but I decided I needed to pick one and stick with it. See, I'm happy to find out how many licks it takes to get to the center of a tootsie pop. Too many tootsie pops, however, might cause a insulen dump. 8)
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- Which one did you decide to stick with?
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As to HFY, it's a difficult topic since there are a group of people online who are very passionate about it and while they're happy enough to themselves explore and offer opinions on the history/legends of WCK (Ng Mui, etc.) they seem to get rather riled when their own views are discussed.
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-Is this an assumption? I do not see from the postings on this forum any hositlity from the HFY family. Even Sifu Loewenhagen's responses to less-than-honorable responses (the "I want to know everything about HFY" thread) had much intergrity and directness (the "are you trying to pick a fight" post) in them despite the finger pointing. Do you see Jeremy's informative postings as "riled?" Or is it the responses from others that are more riled? My Sibok Chango asks direct question, not derogatory ones.
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In general, though, you have to understand that every sifu has his/her story, and all insist it is the absolute truth from on high (whether it be a close student of Yip Man on the Ng Mui story, or one of the more eccentric folks on the 'White Tiger WCK'). I come across people who claim to do Tibetan WCK (and claim WCK originated there, of course) and all sorts of stuff and, in the absense of multiple sources, no one should assume that they are or aren't correct. They remain unproven. If I can't find Fut Sao apart from Henry Leung, or White Tiger WCK apart from Doo Wai, or HFY apart from Garrett Gee, then to me, they remain a mystery, and my opinion doesn't matter.
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-It may not matter for sure, but I'm simply asking what your opinion is. That's all. I'm not asking about anything else but that. If you were to ask me a question I would most definitely and directly answer it to the best of my ability. You provide very open examples and explanations to open the perspectives, which is wonderful. That's great showmanship and very unselfish. But you're not answering the question at hand.
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In specific, I think, like most sifu's accounts, Gee sifu's history has some intriguing elements, and also like most sifu's accounts, some elements that ring more legend than history. In the end, if we get that time-travel video camera working, I think we'll find most hi/stories to be just that - a blend of historical fact with cultural fable.
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-Now this I like! You're sharing what your thoughts are.
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As to legitimacy, IMHO you don't need history to be legitimate. Is your art consistent? (Both without and within - ie. does the talk match the walk). And, can you use it? Those, IMHO, are the important parts.
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-Again this is awesome! Many people on the forum discussing HFY seem to want the "proof" delivered to their inbox. They want us to validate our own roots for them, rather than do the research themselves. The HFY family know who they are and where they come from. Is it reasonable to interrogate them in the manner that some threads have been lately? No matter how much information the HFY family has presented to date, people continue to ask for the proof-to-the-proof-to-the-proof! We will always have to prove that the proof has a back up and the back up has a back up, and the HFY family still gets accused of not presenting anything new! The proof they look for, as you also say in the above statement, is IN the system itself! That's the only way to fully understand its legitemacy (hau chun san sao).
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(BTW - I recognize the all to human need to think you have the bestest most coolest ever toy in the whole universe and to rush to playground to taunt all the other kids about it, who, even if they have similar toys, just can't have them to the degree of awesom coolosity that we do (and why won't they understand that!!!!) - and recognizing it, I try to work around it as best as possible, though its seldom easy.)
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-Unfortunately I don't understand what you mean by this... :(

[yuanfen]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Savi
[B]Rene,
The HFY footwork seemed to contradict YMWC footwork with regards to having parallel feet. One leg was opened to the side?
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Sounds like TWC.

[Savi]

Originally posted by yuanfen
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Savi
[B]Rene,
The HFY footwork seemed to contradict YMWC footwork with regards to having parallel feet. One leg was opened to the side?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sounds like TWC.

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I don't know what TWC's footwork is like, but it's not a cat stance, or a T stance. I've actually never seen this footwork in any Wing Chun before. At the SNT level learning, the heels in the first three footworks are always outside the shoulder-width, with one pointing to center and the other to the side. The center of gravity is still evenly balanced between the feet. The manner in which HFY uses this footwork is strangely remarkable though. It is not designed to go Toe-to-Toe with an opponent and cannot be used AT ALL if one tried to go Toe-to-Toe. Hard to explain until one actually tries it in motion, then in application... There's too much information for conceptual realization over the internet.

[reneritchie]

Hey Savi,

> I've met Sitaigung Garret Gee who is the world leader and inheritor of the HFY system quite a few times.

My apologies, I thought it was possible he has Sihing still alive in China, and that they may have students as well?

> Sitaigung Moy Yat

Both good examples. If you have a chance to see others of their caliber from different arts, that's what I'm referring to.

> I know Sigung Benny Meng, Sifu Richard Loewenhagen, and their disciples whom are some of the best in the world (not just in the WC world, and I'm not being partial!).

Hey, c'mon, how can you not be partial? LOL! How many people do you consider the group of 'some of the best in the world'?

> What about YOU though?

Sorry, I train Sum Nung WCK for aspects of self defense.

> "just for a social activity" ? It sounds like you're implying people take up this martial art for just conversation?

Haven't you had this experience? In China, some would hook up just to have a famous name for a teacher, come by every once and while to smoke and drink, and attend the parties, but never had much interest in the art itself. Likewise, today, some people join a class just to get out and do something, and don't really sweat or try to learn new material, or what not. They're just happy to be part of a group (and if it wasn't WCK or MA it would be cards or something else). Social activity.

> But what about the others who continue to pursue past what they originally thought/sought?

Yup, certainly. Personally, I believe in seeking out experts for elements (while every MA teacher and their uncle seem to consider themselves spiritual gurus, personal trainers, self-defense experts, mentors, etc. few actually have specific and professional training in these areas), but I'm sure like most things, interests evolve over time, one way or another.

> It is the Weng Kiu I am striving for.

What about the Mo Kiu?

> -Is this an assumption?

Only if you're brand spanking new to the internet. 8) I don't see it as particularly constructive to rehash old disagreements, but there's a lot you may not be aware of, and those you mention (and others) are certainly able to dish it out at least as good as they get it. Frankly, we've all acted less than honorably to each other in times past, but hopefully it is behind us.

> I'm simply asking what your opinion is. That's all.

What makes everyone think they're entitled to an opinion? What gives me the right to have an opinion on HFY or any other system I can't verify one way or another? My opinion is as it was the last few times I've been asked: I find HFY facinating, but since it can't be found in China (like YM, YKS, CG, CS, GL, etc. can), and there are no other sources for its information, (like YM, YKS, CG, CS, GL, etc. have) there's no way of verifying the information, or figuring out the inconsistencies. That's where it begins and ends for me, in the same file as Fut Sao, White Tiger, Tibetain, and other single instance WCK.

Likewise, why don't most HFY people post their opinions on the technical threads? Why do they almost exclusively engage in political discussions on the HFY threads? You know why? Because they, like me, are allowed to pick and choose what threads they want to participate on and what opinions they wish to offer. I'm sure they, as individual people, have all sorts of opinions wrt internal HFY/VTM politics, various forms of sexual deviance, the middle east, abortion, gay military service, Martha Stewart, etc. etc. ad nauseum, and they're entitled to each and every one of them, and entitled to choose which and when they share them.

> Now this I like! You're sharing what your thoughts are.

As I said, I'm always happy to, but a) I don't jump through hoops, and b) I've had bad experiences sharing my thoughts on HFY in the past, some am loathe to repeat them.

> Is it reasonable to interrogate them in the manner that some threads have been lately?

No, and I've said that before. But IMHO the HFY/VTM people are half the cycle on that, probably because they're used to acting as part of a majority (part of one of the larger families within the largest family in WCK) and not as they are now, part of a minority. When you're part of a minority (as I have always been), you get a fair amount of grief and if *you* don't do anything to change it, it doesn't change. I didn't have any easy time when I started discussing YKS/SN on the internet. I was mocked, dismissed, even got some silly death threats. I reacted by engaging, by providing good, solid information, but discussing everything and anything as much as possible, even when I felt them rude and disrespectful. Now, IMHO, things aren't so bad for other YKS/SN WCK people on the 'net. I've said repeatedly over the years that I one of the major problems is simply PR, and that the HFY/VTM people could very easily and effectively change perception and reaction via better PR.

> is IN the system itself! That's the only way to fully understand its legitemacy (hau chun san sao).

Again, I get confused by this. If its truly scientific, you should be able to explain it in a way that others can independantly and without your influence reproduce the results and prove the same hypothesis. If you have to have direct personal interaction (which I personally believe to be true) then it becomes not a matter of science but of self expression.

> -Unfortunately I don't understand what you mean by this...

Almost everyone thinks their system/teacher has something no one else has. It's part of what feeds the human ego (and ego is an important thing, not to be confused with egoism). If it weren't for that, no one would need mention they were older, more complete, more scientific, or anything else. They would be content to let the information speak for itself. It's the difference between trying to condition people by yelling the same thing at them over and over again, and by trying to enlighten people by giving them information and letting them realize it (whether it agrees with your realization or not).

RR

[Merryprankster]

Hours spent only in class:

4.5-6 hours per week boxing
10-14 hours per week BJJ.

It's like a freaking second job.

[yenhoi]

It's like a freaking second job.

More enthusiasm, *****.

I thought you were a terrorist?

[Merryprankster]

Ah, no see.

I'm a terrorism ANALYST. One of the guys that tries to keep people from blowing things up, not the other way round.

[Ng Mui]

Practice a minimum of twice a week.
Practice three times a week and discover the balance between offensive moves and defensive moves.
Practice four times a week and discover that defensive movements begin to dominate.
To practice five and six days a week will only perfect the last 5% of your skill potential.
Practice seven days a week, and your skill will regress after the first month.

[Merryprankster]

Um sure Ng Mui.

Tell us why.

[HuangKaiVun]

"Practice a minimum of twice a week.
Practice three times a week and discover the balance between offensive moves and defensive moves.
Practice four times a week and discover that defensive movements begin to dominate.
To practice five and six days a week will only perfect the last 5% of your skill potential.
Practice seven days a week, and your skill will regress after the first month."


Practice and you might discover otherwise. :p

[yenhoi]

Secret chinese recipe for real kung-fu?

[HuangKaiVun]

Yeah, yenhoi.

Stay away from foods that slow your reaction time down.

[yuanfen]

Huan-
Do you mean C-Fu can get you?
Did me today.

[HuangKaiVun]

Did you see my storefront next to Peruanitos, yuanfen?

Yeah, C-Fu restaurant's food can slow a guy down.

[yuanfen]

Huang-
C Fu dim sum can add up in price and other fillers.
Is the empty place at the corner yours to be?
i didnt walk and check. I eat Asian foods all over the place.
Might try the peruvian one some time.
Good luck with your school. Real challenge on how to make a go of it-without compromising kung fu.
One of the most accomplished kung fu artists(not wc) I know got out
of pandering to the crowd and got back to old fashioned teaching-
privately and carefully.

[HuangKaiVun]

Not the corner pocket.

To the immediate left of "Peruanitos" - that's my joint. It is being built as we speak.

I don't think a kung fu teacher has to compromise quality in order to teach professionally. If anything, I think that a kung fu teacher needs to EMBRACE quality in order to keep his students.

Of course, how one maintains that quality depends on the individual teacher. For example, I'll actually be leaving it to the student to determine how much he needs to practice on his own.

My style as a teacher is to accept that different students have different requirements. Some students will get by with little or no practice, others will need far more, and some won't fit any category. That's why I will be individualizing the instruction in a group setting.

How much practice a student does varies directly with what he wishes to accomplish out of his training, in my opinion.

[man in blue]

situation - married with kids (3), daytime job that needs travel on a regular basis

WC time - around 10 hrs per week, when on business travel approx. solo 5 hrs in hotel room

[red5angel]

MP, who do you work for?

[Merryprankster]

U.S. Coast Guard

[red5angel]

You guys do Terrorism Analisys? I guess it never occurred to me you would have to although it makes sense. ever get to work with the CIA or FBI? Most of my training in the USMC was in Quantico, some very cool stuff.

[Merryprankster]

I'm always working with the IC community.

[gnugear]

Originally posted by reneritchie
r5a - Do you have any children? If not, do you think you will tone down your practice time further to spend time with them? (I personally intend to spend tons of quality time with my children one day, which is part of the reason I try to work extra hard now, before they get here 8) ).

Also, are your roomate and wife mutually exclusive eye-witnesses? ;)


RR

I average 15-20 hours a week and I've got two kids. Almost ALL of my home training is done when everyone else has gone to bed.

You just have to make the best of the time you have available. I'd train more if I could ... but family would suffer!

[red5angel]

" don't think a kung fu teacher has to compromise quality in order to teach professionally. If anything, I think that a kung fu teacher needs to EMBRACE quality in order to keep his students. "

I agree unfortunatley many teachers tend towards what is popular or what will get students through the door.



"Of course, how one maintains that quality depends on the individual teacher. For example, I'll actually be leaving it to the student to determine how much he needs to practice on his own. "

It is always up to ones students as to how much they train. If I were an instructor I would encourage them to train as much as they could. The more one trains the more one gets out of training.

[yenhoi]

It is always up to ones students as to how much they train. If I were an instructor I would encourage them to train as much as they could. The more one trains the more one gets out of training.

--

In a University of MA, or like a shaolin temple you would have chores all day long, then time for study, then time for kung fu, then time for sleep. How much of each of those things you did would be pretty much pre-determined and monitored.

IF I ever had a student or students I would try and find some way to monitor when/how much time was spent in solo training. Teachers do this now Im sure, they are just really subtle about it.

[red5angel]

Yenhoi - to enter into a university or a shaolin temple is to make a choice. to go to a martial arts class is to make a choice and how much you train is your choice. As a teacher you can choose to not teach a student who isnt working hard enough, but you cannot make a student work more then he wants to.

[HuangKaiVun]

oopth.

wrong post! :(

[red5angel]

HKV - I saw your post before it was deleted so how about this. With a 70 year old woman who can only do taichi for health 10 minutes a day, why wouldnt I encourage her to do 10 minutes a day?
How about with a 17 year old kid who has alot of energy but little focus, why wouldnt I encourage him to practice a few hours a day so that all that energy can become focused?
Its not about holding everyone to the same physical standards but to the same mental standards. You work as hard as you want to get out of it, and if you are a slacker then am I wasting my time teaching you?

[HuangKaiVun]

Sorry, red5angel.

The reason I deleted the thread was because I saw that Yoda "try vs. do" thing in your signature and thought THAT was your post.

I got rid of it because I realized that what you were saying wasn't different from what I was thinking.

And your current post - I don't disagree in the least either!

[yuanfen]

It was good to meet up with you last night.
joy chaudhuri

[HuangKaiVun]

When my grand opening takes place, yuanfen, I'll let you and your students know.

My stuff is VERY DIFFERENT from yours - and I'm not just talking about my "Wing Chun".

[red5angel]

HKV, no problem, I kind of figured but wanted to make my standpoint clear just in case.