help with career

[jbmmaster]

Please would anyone have any suggestions of what i should do as a career in martial arts?

Im going to a community college in conneticuit but i dont know what for if my passion is mostly kung fu. but ive only had training in kung fu for a year so i dont know what i can do with that. I want to be a teacher some day but it would probably take ten more years of training which is alot of time not making any money. Also ive been thinking about personal training but im not too much intrested in that, or even being stunt man, it just has to be fun an exciting.

Any suggestions?

Josh:confused:

[MightyB]

Start taking some small business management courses. Also, look into some sports administration courses if your college offers them. It doesn't hurt to take sports psychology, coaching, and some general sports medicine and physiology courses either. Plus, you may want to check to see if you can get a CPR and First Aid/First Responders certification through your school. Most community colleges offer Judo courses. It would be a good idea to take them to help fulfill graduation requirements. Ground fighting has become very important for the well rounded martial artist, and, since Judo is an Olympic sport, it may help open the doors to other exciting careers such as college or high school sports administration or coaching.

[Leonidas]

Become a computer graphics designer, thats where the moneys at. Basically something with computers like a software designer or sh!t like that. Anyway do that for now, make some money. If you find the right company (think salary) and if you budget you'll have more than enough to eventually open up your own kwoon.

You could also buy a gym and rent it out to people. Oh yea listen to MightyB, business and finance management classes are real good things to know if your opening your own school. Maybe you could sell martial arts supplies also, that'll keep you close to your element too.

Anyway you could do all of that but listening to me you'll probably end up broke and homeless a few years from now. Why dont you just pick something that you like doing BESIDES kung fu. You do have other hobbies dont you?

[HuangKaiVun]

I completely disagree with Leonidas.

Being "broke and homeless" is hardly the truth for professional martial artists. Otherwise there would be no schools to learn from.

I will tell you from experience, jbmmaster, that if you already want to be a sifu then you probably will be well suited for it. Most of my students know right away if kung fu is something they want to do professionally. This is one of the few areas in life which is "black and white".

I've also done what Leonidas said: go the side route toward making money. In my case, I went through MEDICAL SCHOOL before I realized that kung fu is what I AM.

Keep in mind that if you don't follow your passion, you'll be competing in the workplace against people who ARE. It's very hard on you if you commit yourself fulltime to something which isn't your passion. You might even end up as I did: stuck with not much else to do BUT kung fu.

Now that I've embraced my professional kung fu reality, things have gotten so much better. Though my school isn't opened yet, I've managed to get my finances and life under control in the preceding days. Even if my school "fails", I'll have learned so much just from taking responsibility for my life and following my passion.

Send me a private message if you want to discuss this further, jbmmaster.

[Water Dragon]

They call work because that's what it is. Make some money, then you'll be able to do a lot more of what you really want.

I used to think like you jbmmaster, then I had kids. If you want, I got some good poverty stories for ya.

[gazza99]

Doing kung-fu as a carreer may be ok if your into Wushu, and want to try for the movies! But otherwise youll need at least a decade or more before you can teach. Even then you wont make much money at it unless you are the best of the best, and have a good marketting strategy. Even the big name martial arts guys dont make a killing financially.

Or you could sell out and open a "temple" and call your self "His holiness" as some have done to make a buck!

Overall I dont think one should try and make kung-fu a carreer, at some point you have to sell out in one form or another. But then again you could always open another buisness such as a gym/tanning center etc.. and have a training room..

regards,
Gary

[shaolinboxer]

Perhaps you might be interested in studying kinesiology and becoming a trainer, or studying phys ed and becoming a teacher. You can do these kinds of things and still teach martial arts, directly or indirectly.

[Ray Pina]

After one year of training, becoming a "sifu" (by the way, Sifu means you support your students as they live with you -- is that what you want?) should be something you think about, but there are more immediate things to be concerned with: your education and training.

Do not turn to others for your life advice. Be yourself. Listen to your inner thought, your heart. You may have many jobs in a lifetime. They provide support for your life. Follow your passions.

For an example: everyone told me I could never make money as a writer. But that's what I love to do. After college I wrote for a small town paper making a joke of a salarly. From there, little by little I moved to better publications. My money is still a joke, but it keeps a roof over my head at the beach in NY, allows me to train and dine on sushi every now and then. I'm happy.

Along the way I have trained with some good teachers. Now I feel I'm with a great teacher. I too would like to be a teacher someday. It will happen in its own time.

Don't listen to others. The idea that you can't make money teaching unless you are the best of the best is a joke. OUt here we have Tiger Schulman. Very low level practitioners, but the school chain makes a fortune! Don't listen to anybody. Don't listen to me.

Follow your heart -- the money will be there when you need it. I have some poverty stories too. But in the end, I had what I needed and I still do.

It's a learning process. Enjoy it.

[Water Dragon]

Slightly Off Topic. My almamater, Indiana University, will be offering a bachelors in martial arts beginning next year. Pretty cool, huh?

[Budokan]

What types of courses will they be offering, WaterDragon?

[Suntzu]

Kung fu as a career… I don’t know about… but if you are going to college and need to choose a major… I would say choose one in whick MA training can be sort of an off shoot… say sports psycology… sports medicine… exercise science… I dont know to what extent CC offers thos majors but its something to think about...

Keep in mind that if you don't follow your passion, you'll be competing in the workplace against people who ARE. It's very hard on you if you commit yourself fulltime to something which isn't your passion. aint that the d@mn truth...

[HuangKaiVun]

Keep in mind, jbmmaster, that many of the courses offered in your community college will be incredibly important for your kung fu business.

Accounting, business law, Eastern Philosophy - those are but some of the classes you can take that really help you in the field of martial arts. There are other courses that have direct sifu applications.

Not only do those classes help you in martial arts, they help you in life. Even if you never become a CPA or JD or even sifu, taking a course like accounting can help you straighten your finances out.

So get the most out of your college education by following your passion.

Take it from me, a guy who actually DOES kung fu for a living.

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by Budokan
What types of courses will they be offering, WaterDragon?

I'm not 100 % sure. I know there'll be a lot of Kinesiology, learning theory, etc. Plus IU has some of the best credit MA classes around.

For example, if you like William CC Chen's Taiji, you can learn the first half of the form one semester, the second half another, and take both classes agin for corrections.

Plus, you can do the same with Tui Shou and the Sword Form. Plus, club for 2-3 hours twice a week and a little boxing on the side once you've been around for a while. Oh yeah, BP Chan's staff form too.

[Aramus]

A career...I would say (like a few others) take a few courses on small business management, finance, accounting, web page design, possibly marketing and advertising. Some other good cross-overs: Yoga, judo, fencing (maybe this is just me), coaching or some other sports, weightlifting, jogging, kickboxing (become certified ?), aerobics (certified?), CPR is just plain good to know, a course on insurance (property and casualty) would be enlightening as well.

Things to be while training: Paramedic (but burn out is high), firefighter, poice men, teacher (lot more free time in the summer and if you have some sport background you might be able to coach. Coaching can help with your teaching ability as well). Physical therapy and kinesiology are pretty neat careers but they take few years to get through the program (4-5 I believe).

Keep this in mind: What is the most important thing for you? Where would you like to be in 3 years? 5 years? 10 years? Family, gonna have one? What other skills do you have or can you learn can you fall back on or just plain enjoy? Your goals may change when you meet a certain special person and even more if you have kids. If you are single now, learn and do all you can. This is the best time to do it.

Just my thoughts, good luck. I hope you find what you're looking for.

[fa_jing]

Have you considered going on welfare???????

:D

Seriously, it is way too early in your life, in your education, and in your martial arts study to be making long-term decisions. If becoming a MA instructor is what you desire, you may work towards that goal, however unless you already have the financial resources to be a full-time MA student for 4-5 years (go to China?), then you're going to be working which means it really will take 10 years before you're good enough to start passing your knowledge on to others for a decent profit. In that time, all sorts of things could happen to delay this even further. Son, go out there and get a real job! Then you'll know more about yourself and the reality of work. Believe me, it may suck but working is more fulfilling than going to school.

[Leonidas]

Originally posted by HuangKaiVun
I completely disagree with Leonidas.

Being "broke and homeless" is hardly the truth for professional martial artists. Otherwise there would be no schools to learn from.



That's all fine and well that you disagree but you missed the part about him being a one year student. That's pretty inexperienced to open your own school right now. I'm all for him following his dream but he needs a career move until he gets more skill. What exactly is he gonna teach with only one year under his belt?

Oh yea and that last part in my post about being broke and homeless was said pretty much in jest. I dont know, maybe i should of used a few more smiley faces or something.

[MightyB]

The Business of America is Business.

Most MA schools fail because most good martial artists suck at doing business. If you're really serious about opening a school or making MA into a career, you need to know how to manage a small business. The bottom line is the bottom line. If you know what your bottom line is and you can exceed it, then you make money. Gross profits minus expenses equals net profits.

(sounds easy doesn't it, but, how many people push their maximum credit and live in serious debt in their personal financial lives? Basically they are slaves to all kinds of external influences and their lives suck no matter how much money they make. Not many people know how to live in their means let alone run a business that survives by staying within its means. This leads me to an off topic which I'll call "how to live rich". a- spend less than you earn. b- if you can't afford it, don't buy it. c- double your yearly income to figure out how much you should spend on a house. d- never buy a new car. Buy used and invest the difference. e- never buy whole life, buy term and invest the difference. f- don't become a slave to marketing. Most of the crap that you think you need is because somebody who's paid very well for their efforts has convinced you that you need it. g- don't carry credit card balances.)

You need to focus on how to develop the skill sets necessary to survive as a business, specifically a MA business. You need to look at potential versus earnings, and so on. For example, time management skills and discipline are what a lot of sifu don't have. You maximize capacity through offering a variety of classes to different age and skill level groups and sticking to a strict-- STRICT-- timeline. Floorspace and time is what you're selling, so maximize its use... Learn how to run a MA business and don't get married or buy a house anytime soon.

Oh yeah, If you think kung fu takes too long to learn, get a black belt in something else in the meantime-- Judo-- and open a business with that. Just don't call it a Judo school, call it "your last name here Martial Arts". Study Kung Fu in your free time and incorporate it into your school in the future when you are ready. That way you won't have to worry about competing with your parent school for students.

[CD Lee]

Look, there is a wealth of good advice here by all. Some of these people have been around the block on both sides of the fence. Take a good listen and take heart.

One thing I would say however, in all honesty. Get your education. Nobody knows what life will bring. Your education only will only enhance you to yourself and to all others you interact with.

There is nothing wrong with not having a college education. But if you have the opportunity, take it now.

You do not have to sacrafice your greatest passions just because you cannot do it for a living!!! I have a passion for gardening, cooking, martial arts and music. I mean a passion. Being a music teacher, a chef, owning a nursurey, and being a Sifu would be pretty difficult. But I do all of these things and more with passion. And I am a consultant in IT, doing business process analysis and information architechture.

BTW...I was in college 5 years before I figured out what I wanted to do. And yes, it required more education. Whatever.

[HuangKaiVun]

Jest?

No offense Leonidas, but don't do that to jbmmaster.

I was once in jbmmaster's shoes, and discouragement is the last thing that would've helped me get to where I am now.

By the way, jbmmaster's job IS his community college education.

Whatever the outcome of that is, I'll be rooting for him to get the most out of his time there.

Notice I'm not necessarily decreeing that he should finish his CC education. I know successful professionals that quit that route early and did much better in life because of it.


I think that the 10-year waterline is roughly true not just from a training standpoint, but from a business one.

To me, the development of the martial portion is the easy and less time consuming part. Certain styles (particularly the much older traditional ones) do not require more than 10 years training to gain proficiency in.

However, the mental development needed to be a teacher, businessman, leader, diplomat, economist, facilitator - those are far more challenging than acquisition of fighting abilities. It was that part that took me 10 years to get, not the actual martial training part.

As far as black belts and stuff go, I am not convinced that one needs one to become a sifu. I never received my black belt in any style, yet I trained in traditional kung fu and (most importantly) can show another how to use the art in a freefighting situation. Besides, a shodan (1st degree black belt) means that one is only BEGINNING his training, not ending it.

One year probably isn't enough to become a sifu. But after a few of those "one years", one can be ready. As Cheng Man Ching (a famous sifu himself) said, "learning kung fu is like laying down one sheet of paper at a time to build a big pile". Every sifu in history was a 1-year student at first.

I listened to the discouragement of others for 10 years, and it nearly led to my downfall. Then when I embraced my dream of becoming a professional sifu, things dramatically turned around for me.

[No_Know]

Career I'd say physical therapist or maseuse. Physical therapist be cause of the Kinesiology. I also think it's a degree with the physical education department. Maseuse because it might happen quicker. Both have you manipulating another's body for you to learn yourself and how others work and how to even use Kung-Fu hands. Or perhaps you could recognize where the techniques apply from your experiencies with other bodies. ~

[Aramus]

Have you had a chance to shadow any career person...Such as spend a day with a therapist, massage (careful a career in massage can actually be very hard on your hands...I talked with a few, they said they had 7-10 years before they would have to move on).

You may want to shadow someone to check out a career/job maybe even a martial arts school owner.

[Leonidas]

Dont do what to him? I didn't know he needed your protection.

Jokingly saying "he prolly shouldn't listen to me because he might end up broke and homeless" will somehow destroy his confidence and his chances of opening up his own Martial arts school?

Well godd@mn.......

I didn't know people were so sensitive.

If someone can be affected that much by what I of all people say online then maybe a career choice is the least of their problems.

[norther practitioner]

Just remember, love don't pay the bills!

[CD Lee]

HKV seems a little 'jumpy' lately. I thought it was said in jest as you said...

Don't be mad at me HKV! Just a little light sparring with you man.

[LEGEND]

HKV...I understand what u're talking about! But REALISTICALLYLY...life is about having a FALL BACK PLAN. His education should come first...and then his career plan can kick in! Sure he should do something that is PASSIONATE...but he can focus this in SKOOL first also. There are plenty of programs that can entune his mind toward CMA...he can study physical therapy or sports medicine and it will make him a better CMA guy along with a DEGREE to fall back on! At the same time he can RUN a martial art club at his skool and teach to see how it works...he'll learn quick that they're FEW DEDICATED STUDENTs!

Utimately the most successful skools are MCDOJOs. They are basically DAYCARE CENTERs...some offer REALISTIC programs like MUY THAI and BJJ or SAN SHOU etc...but most peeps there are in it for physical enhancement or send their kids their to give them discipline and something else to do than playing on their playstation 2.

Running a SKOOL and making it successful is HARD WORK!!! Most skools have to be run at ODD 2nd shift hours...due to most peeps and their children work and skool schedules! Then u have to worry about RENT of the facility...electric and water bill...equipment cost...to have 1 year plans or not...to remember everyones name...to be disappointed with those that come and go...to be a collector when someone doesn't pay! Then of course your personal bills...to pay for your mortgage/rent...to pay for your car payments...loans etc...


GOOD LUCK THOUGH! HEHEHE!

[Shadow Dragon]

jbmmaster.

Here is some more advise.
I would take the advise about going for business, sports and other certification.

Even if you open your school don't expect to make money from the word go.
To set up and get started takes quiet a bit of money which you won't see again.

You somehow need to earn this money and safe up to open your school. DON'T loan the money just to get going quickly.

A rough rule that I ehard is that you will need enough capital to run your business for 6 month without taking any money in.
This includes, your rent, utilities for BOTH your place and your place of business, etc.

Now here is my advise.
You can go 100% Sifu and KF career, not my recommended path.

Start your KF career as a sideline and maybe move into it later on full-time, this means that you need to be able to hold a Job that:
1.) Allows you to save money.
2.) Gives you freedom timewise to do your KF stuff.

There will be unexpected expenses and changes in your Life (Family, Kids, accidetns, etc) you also will need to allow for those.

The other reason for being able to hold a Job, consider that your MA career might not go smooth than what??

You still need to eat, pay the rent, etc.

Listen to the advise given here, but don't see it as the gospel or guaranteed road to success.

Cheers.

[HuangKaiVun]

CDLee, I wasn't mad at Leonidas or anything.

I just didn't want anybody going into kung fu to get the wrong idea about it, that's all.


All that "skool" stuff, Legend, is stuff that a person who ISN'T in kung fu should have a handle on as well.

Fallback plans and kung fu education, as you have aptly noted, are not different from each other.

As far as "McDojos" go, I'm not so sure I'd criticize them. I have seen schools that I guess people would call "McDojos", but their quality of instruction and services are vastly superior to that of some of the "real" kung fu kwoons I've seen.

The MA career might not go smooth, but the "fallback" career might not go smooth either. In fact, that's exactly what happened to me.

It's always better to face life using your best weapon than your weakest.

[Suntzu]

find a bldg with 'gym space' and an apartment… BAM rent/mortgage cut right in half… just hope the wifey is a very understanding person…

[jbmmaster]

Thanks, you all had some very good input on what roads i should take and i will take that into consideration. There are many martial arts programs in my school like aikido, judo, tai chi, yoga capoeira and a couple of more which im thinking of taking. im also into japanamation drawing, my favorite cartoon Dragon ball z of course:D.

But one thing I have not told you all is that i haven't been at my martial arts school for about 7 months:D . Just because I havent been able to afford to pay the monthly sum but im going to go back and talk to my sifu who will be angrified:mad: and take out his butterfly knifes and cut me to shreds. Just kidding:D . im stupid in a way knowing that he has been in lots of martial arts films including operation condor, he also is cetified in personal training and has done tons of other stuff as well, he may be able to help me out not that you all didnt help any you guys or gals have taken the road at which i want to be at so your suggestions help greatly in my final decision. Oh yeah check out my sifus website, www.wingsing.com, his name is Vincent lyn, a very nice guy and a great teacher.

Thank you all:)

Josh

[HuangKaiVun]

Ah, you study with Vincent Lyn.

I personally always thought he looked like the real life version of "Ken" from the anime series "Fist of the North Star". That's if that Vincent Lyn is the same one you're talking about.

In any case, drop by Chandler and visit "Huang's Kung Fu Academy" if you get the chance.

I'll look forward to meeting you if we ever get the chance.

[taba]

http://www.indiana.edu/~martial/certificate.htm