Steel grade of weapons?

[phoenix-eye]

There are 3 different grades of weapons steel for broadswords etc.

1. Wushu - (flexible & light)
2. Spring
3. Combat

Obviously combat steel will be the most solid and heavy. However, lots of places offer Spring Steel. What is the difference between Spring & Combat steel?

Thanks

PE

[The GREat Ro0ster]

its actually the way the steel is forged and rolled. some steel can be made to be very hard but brittle, there is alot of temperature and pressure variations and cooling and reheating to make steel taht is good for fightting, like making it hard and non brittle all at the same time

[The Willow Sword]

spring steel is usually made from the spring shocks of old jeeps and cars,,since the metal is tempered anyway it makes for a nice strong sword, flexable and able to hold an edge.

combat steel would be the more general term for drop forged and hammered steel. its grade is usually lower than that of spring steel and heavier. combat weapons were made on the fly and made heavier so that they could take more punishment.

wushu grade steel is very flexable and light yes,,but also very flimsy and serves no other purpose than to look flashy in demonstration. it is aslo said that the wushu grade steel can be sharper than that of the other grades and be able to provide several cuts in one attack (obviously due to its flexability) and also instead of clashing with another blade it would bend past it and whip around the other blade making a distracting cut or slash.

all in all the weapons out there that you buy are crap,,the blades will break and bend and chip because they are mass produced, whether it says ,,combat steel ,,wushu or spring,,it still has one underlying feature,,,and that is SH!tty workmanship.

check out angelsword.com if you are wanting to invest in a blade that is REAL and tempered and that is like what the proper sword is. you will pay a good deal,,but in the end is a good investment.
many Respects,,The Willow Sword

[Braden]

There are lots of places that offer 'combat', 'spring', and 'wushu' steel. However, none of these offerings should be considered decent-quality metallurgy for a combat weapon. Not that this particularly matters, since there's no real need for a properly combat-ready weapon in this day and age. However, if you want the real thing, and your only option is shipping from a well-known dealer, you'll have to go to Kris Cutlery, Cold Steel, or Hanwei Forge (in that order, imho).

[GeneChing]

Actually the grades of 'wushu' 'spring' and 'combat' was something we just made up. It's just marketing. It doesn't comply with any standard hardness or flexiblity test, so it's pretty subjective.

Pacific Rim Products, the original name of www.MartialArtsMart.com, was actually the first western company to send an American rep to go into China's most famous sword forge, Dragon Well (a.k.a. Lung Chuan). At that time, there was a limited market for the heavier swords. Mostly it was the really light stuff, which we have nicknamed 'wushu' steel since that's all it's really good for. Before that, most of the swords were coming out of Hong Kong and Taiwan - these were what might be called a medium or 'traditional' weight blade. At first, Lung Chuan wasn't offering that much that was marketable in the states. People llike to talk about fine swords, but few people really put there money where there mouth is. Lung Chuan was making all this great stuff, beautiful had crafted pieces, at a steal of a price, but no one was buying in the U.S. It's worth mentioning that there are several forges at Lungchuan, each run by diferent families, and each with varying degrees of quality. Now competition between these different forges, as well as from other forges like the ones at Shaolin, has improved the overall quality of the swords, especially in fittings.

But back to Spring vs. Combat Steel. When we use these terms, we are referring to forged steel from either Lungchuan or Shaolin forges. Spring steel is thinner, around an 1/8 inch at the forte. Combat steel is much thicker, almost absurdly so. Some of our combat steel is as much as 1/2 inch at the forte. Both "grades" will take an edge nicely and we do sell sharpened versions. At Shaolin, they let you edge test the swords but chopping wood, nails, even metal bars. They also let you flex test them. Most will bend a good 45 degrees and return to true, some even as far as 90 degrees. Of course, the fat combat steel blades don't bend. You can't really bend a blade that thick. Those are more for display. If you're really interested in this check out an article I wrote 3 years ago - http://store.yahoo.com/martialartsmart/kf-911.html - http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=103 - real steel or tin foil.

[phoenix-eye]

Thanks for the replies.

Which should I buy for training? I'm doing Lau & Hung Gar.

My guess from the replies so far is that Spring steel is probably OK for training. Avoid wushu steel and, preferably buy Lung Chuan weapons if you have the money.

Gene - does MartialArtsmart ship Lung Chuan kit to the UK?

[GLW]

For mass produced swords, there are a number of options. Tigerclaw is one and there are others...basically shop around and get the best deal but make sure the person you deal with has a return policy. Sometimes things coming from China have rust or other imperfections in the blades that you would not want.

If you want other things...

Well the next option up is something like Kris Cutlery. They do a 'Real' blade but it is NOT custom. They are limited in the fittings and lengths. Personally, they do not make a blade long enough for my height...they are nice but I require a 34 to 36 inch blade...they don't show one in their ads.

The next step up depends on who you want to deal with. If you have China contacts, you CAN do a custom job with some of the folks Gene mentions. You have to have a way to deal with them..contacts...and you have to be able to specify exactly what you want and willing to pay for it.

The other easy choice is as listed before - Angelsword.com.

The owner is Dan Watson. He forges the blades himsef and trains his staff. They are VERY nice blades. The fittings are a work of art and the blades are perfectly balanced....they are also quite sharp. I had his business card where he SHAVED it several times quite thin. He also uses 55 gallon oil drums to test the blade...thrust through the metal drum.

They are NOT cheap..usually $1000 and up...but hey, if what you want is a REAL, SHARP, blade fitted to you - you get what you pay for.

[The Willow Sword]

i have a kris sword and it is nice and flexable but will still bend and chip,,,However we arent clashing with these swords at all. the feel of the weapon is good for training and they are sharp so you can't just wielld it around like some jedi wannabe,,,,you will get cut,,hahaha.

IN TEXAS coming up soon will be the rennaissance festival. there is a forge there called redcastle and they make custom swords specifically for clashing. they are blunt but tempered very well and can clash and still retain themselves. the ren fest is in CONROE texas and runs every consecutive weekend in october and the first two weekends in November. you will find alot of swords there oriental and other wise. ANGELSWORD will also be there so you can check out the REAL thing and see how much they are. and see what a real sword is like. they had a "Gim" there that was absolutley beautiful and sharp and able to cut steel very easily and they were asking 800-900 bucks for it.
its an investment.

in the case of what weapon you should get to train with i would suggest kris cutlery swords but they are limited in thier chinese weapons category they have one style of Dao and they have two different styles of "Gim" blade. and they are affordable.

MRTWS

[GLW]

One thing to keep in mind is your skill level.

I highly advise against a beginner getting a sharp and/or expensive sword. First, you don't REALLY know if you will stick with it.

Second and most important, you WILL make mistakes. Some of those mistakes will hurt the sword, some will hurt you. With an edged weapon, the hurt to you can be serious.

For use with two person drills, don't go there....even dull metal WILL cut. I did that with a classmate many years ago and filleted his hand with a totally dull broadsword. He attempted to change the drill, I reacted and he lost...it was messy.

For two person drills and free fighting, I get the wooden swords. I then take pipe wrap insulation - the foam rubber kind - and duct tape. When I am done, it feels like a sword but it won't do any more harm than a bruise....and all of your techniques still work.

I would not recommend moving from this type of practice until both people involved are proficient...unless you have good insurance.

For solo practice, get what you like...but if you want sharp and real, develop your basics first. Start with treating ALL weapons - even the wood and collapsable ones - as if they were real and edged....