Learning traditional Shaolin

[zen_celt]

I was reading this board and noticed conflicting views on the authenticity of current Shaolin training. I was wondering if the modern Shaolin monks/teachers still practice the supplemental kungs. I.E. Iron Body, Golden Bell etc. Is this even Shaolin? My impression is that it is, in fact part of what they are famous for.
Part of the reason I ask is that this particular aspect of kung fu interests me greatly and I have been looking for a teacher who knows this and is willing to teach it. So far, all I know of is the Shaolin temple. I saw Shi Yan Ming's school in New York but it is on the other side of the continent from me and I'm not sure if he even teaches is. Is this still taught in or around Shaolin?
-ZC

[GeneChing]

Venerable Shi Guolin is known as the Iron Arhat from his extraordinary iron body skills. He gave a fantastic demonstration at our 10 Year Anniversary Benefit Gala, breaking boards and bricks all over himself and permitting anyone in the audience to come up and punch him in the ribs. Then my security crew got to hit him in the belly with a log.

[zen_celt]

Thank you Mr. Ching.
Do you happen to know if Venerable Shi Guolin teaches these skills to students and where he teaches? Or perhaps if there are any teachers for this in the San Francisco area?
It's nice to know that it is a Shaolin skill. Now I guess I have to look into traveling to Shaolin or finding a teacher in the states.
Also, if you wouldn't mind, do you happen to know all of the traditional skills that are incorporated into this type of training(such as One finger Kung, Iron Palm, etc.). I only know of the more common/famous ones.
Thank you again.
-ZC

P.S. What's an Arhat?

[freedom76]

Zen celt
I beleive that Sifu Wing Lam teaches iron skills (palm and body).
I've never been there, but he does have a great reputation and I've seen some of his videos. On those he moves very well, clearly and concise. I believe some other people regularly on this forum may have a first hand knowledge of Sifu Lam.

[Stone Monkey]

Arhat

Sanskrit Buddhist term

Arhat ["worthy one" or "destroyer of the foe (i.e., the foe that is ignorance)"] is the title given to those who have achieved nirvana. All buddhas are, thus also arhats.

Becoming a Buddha takes much longer than becoming an arhat, so attainment of the status of arhat is the goal for some traditions of Buddhism.

[Stone Monkey]

Arhat is a Buddhist term that comes from the Sanskrit word that means "worthy one." An arhat is one who has been enlightened and achieved nirvana. An arhat has joined the community of "noble persons" through a rigorous process of eliminating all impurities. This perfected person has gained insight into the true nature of existence and is no longer captive to the bonds of desire. Therefore this person is free from the cycle of rebirth. The path to arhatship can be entered in three ways. They are faith, wisdom, and meditation.

There are various stages that one goes through in order to reach the stage of arhat. The first stage is the convert, or the state of the "stream- enterer." This is the stage where a person realizes the wisdom of the Buddha and overcomes doubts about the Buddha. The second stage is the "once- returner." This person has gotten rid of lust, hatred, and illusion, and will be born only once again. The third stage is the "nonreturner." This person has overcome ill will and sensuous desire. They are born into a higher heaven where they will become arhat. The forth stage is the arhat.

Arhatship can be reached by laity but only in extraordinary circumstances. For the most part only those who are part of the monastic order reach the arhatship. Once this state is attained, it is almost inevitable that the arhat will enter the monastery if they are not already part of that life style. Arhatship is also available to women.

Mahayana Buddhism holds that arhatship can be lost. As a matter of fact, some are asked not to achieve nirvana so that they can stay behind and teach the ones that are still in the other stages. Hinayana Buddhism does not believe that an Arhat can lose enlightenment. It is then considered the proper goal.

[GeneChing]

And yes, he does teach Iron Body seminars. Guolin says that he gleened all of his iron body skills from the practice of Yi Jin Jing - http://store.yahoo.com/martialartsmart/pr-gs001.html and he does teach regular classes exclusive in that. Many schools teach iron body disciplines, in fact I just finished work on a new Iron Body video that will rock your socks off. It'll be in November (I hope) along with the Iron Crotch video I've been working (seriously.) Most traditional schools teach it, but you have to ask. Most of these are actually rather simple methods, you just got to do it everyday.

[zen_celt]

Wow, thanks a lot guys.
Stone Monkey- Very good definition, much appreciated.
Mr. Ching- Thanks for the info. I'll check on the video and seminars. I found Sifu Lam's school on the 'net in my search for a school in SF. I was wondering how far it is from San Francisco/Petaluma area(I'm not too knowledgle about distance etc. in Northern California).
Again, thanks for the info guys.
-ZC

[Fen]

Sifu Lam's is about 40 min to 1 hr from SF depending on traffic.

~Jason

[GeneChing]

...We have a new iron body video in production for Xmas release. Watch the forum for new product announcements. It's from Grandmaster Alex Tao - lots of intense breaking demos.

And Zen_celt, please call me Gene, we're very informal here.:)

[Kaga]

Hey gene, or anyone who has used those tapes before. Are they really that good? I've been considering purchasing a few, but I'm not sure as to how helpful they actually are. I'm speaking for all kung fu tapes not just the iron body ones..

[GeneChing]

They're good if they're from MartialArtsMart.com. Be martial art smart, shop martialartsmart.com!

[Crimson Phoenix]

LOL Gene you're ready for a good infomercial!! :D

[Chango]

I was one of those audience members that was asked to punch Venerable Shi Guolin. I used a short punch to put my body weight (300 plus) behind it. He remained relaxed and it did not phase him. One of his students did a familar acrobatic form. I have to say the form was flawless and extremely fast. It was a site to see. I really enjoyed it.

[KC Elbows]

Good old Mr. Ching, always plugging away!:D

ZenCelt,
How're things out there? Our class is going well, my teacher decided to run an internal only class, which I'd been waiting for, as the internal form and the internal spear are the last two forms, and seeing as how everything else comes from them, they're what I plan on focussing my studies on.

A couple people from the class read the post you put up about visiting our school, it was very nice to read such nice things about us and our teacher. I hope that everything is going well.

KC

[richard sloan]

We just put up a video on shaolinwolf.com that was put together for Shi Yan Ming's 10 yr Anniversary in the U.S. There's some great breaking, spear bending footage, as well as an awesome gong fu section, and some great stuff with Shi De Yang in China.

We were able to film some stuff alongside a BBC crew doing a show on pain experiments. They filmed Shi Yan Ming breaking, having the dowels broken, bending the spears, and an experiment which a Dr. from the University of Utah developed to test subject's physical reaction to pain stimuli. The results of the experiment were nothing short of amazing. It will probably be out soon as they filmed it over the summer.

Anyway, this was the first time I got to see this stuff being done up close as a witness and observer. First of all, I thought the sticks were a lot lighter. Turns out that they are Hemlock. I don't know if anyone else here has ever gotten whacked with a bat or stickball bat, but it really hurts. These dowels for lack of a better term are a lot heavier than what I expected, alot more solid. I took a play shot in the abdomen and no thanks. I have not examined other dowels used in these kinds of demos, by other masters, but intend to do so next opportunity I have.

The spears- Shi Yan Ming usually uses three. In this case we couldn't find one so two were used, and termites had gotten to one of them so we had to replace the shaft. I placed one of the spears into the hollow of my throat and attempted to walk forward. I did not get very far. No way. I've seen multiple variations to this 'trick.' In most of the demos you see, the helper exerts downward pressure on the shaft, bending it as the 'master' uses a forward force, in effect removing stress from the point to the side of the spear, if this description makes sense.

Well, I was the one who held the spears. They were against the butt of my foot. I had no way of exerting any kind of pressure except to keep the butts of the spears from sliding forward when he pressed against them. Shi Yan Ming warned me it might hurt when he pushed forward. It did. I also took the spear point against my hand, figuring it is the toughest skin I have besides my foot pad, and tried to bend the spear like that, also to no avail.

Sometimes there is a breaking segment added to the bending, in which someone places something on the back while the spears are bent, and then another helper will come up and smash the brick or slab with a hammer. It's common in these kinds of tricks to see the 'pull back' of the helper- the force is used to smash the slab then the smasher pulls back the smashing instrument so the force does not go through.

Well, the day before Sifu sent us to Home Depot to get 'bricks.' We brought back marble, granite, and bricks. He left it up to us to choose which slab went on his back. He didn't care.

In any case, as you can see from the video, the force of the brick used to smash the marble pushes through because Shi Yan Ming dropped a few inches upon impact. I never saw that before.

Anyway, without going on and on about it, check the vid out if you're interested. But be warned, it's 60 megs (down from over a gig) and will take awhile. You need the latest version of quicktime (free) and a download manager won't hurt. Lots of those are free too. I have cable and it took about 5 minutes.

[GeneChing]

CP & KC - Hey, a man's got to earn a living around here. ;) "Mr. Ching"? So formal!

chango - Which puncher were you?

r.s. - Nice post. Thanks for the link! Congrats to your Sifu for 10 years!

[richard sloan]

I'll pass along the kind words.

How'd you like the vid?