The true essense of training

[Kay k]

Iv'e just replied to a post on Defend.net in the "introduce yourself" forum. Now i'm not naming names but the point is someone there said they were practicing Tae Kwondo, and it weren't "just a workout" it was so they could "kick someones butt" with their training.
My point is, do you think the true essense of learning a Martial Art has been lost over the years? everyone seems to be taking up an art to "kick someones butt". I replied and basically said that i don't think being able to kick someones butt is the true purpose of learning a Martial Art nor should it be an insentive. What do you guys think? x

[No_Know]

Being competitive is strong and being tough -ish is an easy release in certain environment types. Self-doubt makes room for prove-ourselves. We do as we are told (for at least a time). We understand what we can and don't concern ourselves with the rest. -ish

It's Martial arts, right? That's not just a name like Marshall~. It means something, like To fight, or something. Fight--:when people talk fight they talk, Kick-kiester... Therefore going into Martial arts is to Kick-...But, we all are limited by our experiences. We are cynergetic by our experiences.~ As people learn they tend to change. Change is based on perception of that learning and Will and Want and Would-like and thinks-should-do.

It's a reasonable thought. It's a beginning experiences thought. If one is going to start, one theoretically has to start somewhere. People tend to end-up where they began. Even though the along-the-way can be else-wheres. I tend to begin at, I No_Know.

[Ish]

ish is an easy release in certain environment types.
no im not.

I agree that learning martial arts isn't just to learn how to kick ass but you should still learn that. i would imaging the people who still think thats the only reason are either too stupid or just haven't trained enough to realise how many other (and often better) benefits it has on your life.

[Former castleva]

As a tongue on cheek metaphor "to kick butt" is allright,but does mislead.
Rather prevention of that,and ability to survive from such activity,that´s one thing.

[Crimson Phoenix]

well...I really don't know...it's called MARTIAL arts after all...not "enlightening arts" or "self-improvement"...
And OK, samurais would find a nice philosophy and self-realization to their task, but they were paid to shed blood, nothing more, nothing less...
I really don't know...you shouldn't put too much philosophy in martial arts, but the same way I agree with you that becoming a ruthless, heartless killing machine might not be the scope either...

[red5angel]

OK, I have a huge beef with this sort of hippy outlook on the martial arts. Sorry Kay K but here I go.......

While it is true that supposedly, CMA started out as a set of excersises to keep monks healthy, I think you would be fooling yourself if you believe all the peaceful warrior crap your hear and see on all those far out kung fu movies. While it may be true that some people chose to learn the martial arts for health and peace, many learned it to kick someones butt, including shaolin monks who needed to learn to kick someones butt to defend themselves. While a moral martial artist will probably use his martial art as a last resort, the attitude that MARTIAL arts is or should be a peaceful endeavor is what gives some martial arts a bad name. There is nothing I hate more then then some peace loving hippy walking into my class with the attitude like, "I just want a far out way to become one with the universe."

[guohuen]

The metaphysical hippy types that have come to me for training have all left within two months. The folks that have stuck out two or three years have been the people with a sincere desire to learn a self defense art. The thing in common my best students have is a dedication and determination to learn some effective defence techniques. Most of them came to me in pretty good shape but with limited fight experience that went badly for them. Oddly enough it's not so much the free sparring that weeds the metaphysical types out as the stance training. The dedicated people set their mind to it and do it. The metas also usually sparr poorly because their too busy thinking. Which is also usually what they are doing in class when they should be listening.

[CD Lee]

Some people could kick @ss BEFORE taking up a martial art. I won fights before without pure martial arts. I want to learn to defend myself and my family better. I want more control and understand where power comes from and how to issue that power, as well as control an opponenents energy better. I want to be more confident so I am not tempted to use too much violence out of fear like a cornered animal.

Some of the attributes a lot of people are after in martial arts that do not sound like fighting, come because we learn to fight well, not that we always fight.

[mantiskilla]

my Master emphasizes that it is an art, but we also need to be able to use it. the food on the plate may look good, but you wont know until you taste it.:)
________
Vaperizers (http://vaporizers.net)

[Ryu]

I think some of you are missing something. You are stating that "martial arts" teach humility and respect, but then claim that a new pratitioner who wants to "kick butt" has the wrong mindset. That implies that it is the person who starts out with humility and respect, and the art teaches nothing. ;)

I think this.... a lot of people started martial arts to "kick butt." When we first started we didn't know the "wu de" aspect of things. We didn't have the first clue about the "spirituality" one would get from hard training (not a lot of us anyway.)
The "I want to kick butt" mindset from a newbie is probably common. It's not until AFTER they've studied for years, trained their body beyond what they thought possible, been beaten up, lost ego, tapped the mat, etc. ........ that the humility and respect come.
The reason "martial arts" are about humility and respect is because if you train it correctly......... you realize how mortal you really are.

Ryu

[red5angel]

Well said Ryu!

[Ford Prefect]

I don't think it's wrong to just want to "kick butt". After all, that is what the martial arts orginal purpose was. I also don't believe that if my idea of what the essence of martial arts is conflicts with another's, then they are wrong and don't get it. That would be just a bit arrogant.

[CD Lee]

RYU - very well said indeed.

Ford - Also, yes, if I was a skinny wimp taking Karate, I am training to learn to kick @ss. To be stronger, tougher. There is nothing wrong with that mindset at first at all. I think most people do train to learn to fight. I think what RYU said is what eventually happens to a newbie.

But, taking MA never intending to have to use it in a fight, I am not sure why anybody would do this. You can take an aeorobics style class for health or do Qigong and meditation.

If you really don't want to fight, but want to learn martial arts for health, take Tae Bo. Billy is a good man.

[Hau Tien]

I don't think any of the above really applies, anyway. Different people do different things for different reasons.

So some guy comes in thinking "I'm gonna learn kung fu and kick some butt! ALRIGHT!" Well... that's fine and dandy. Also, the "hippy" type thinking "I'd like to become one with the universe!" Sure... why not? And for health reasons? Hell.. what's wrong with that? MORE people in this world need to take up SOME physical activity after highschool. Most people don't.

I know my Sifu can engineer a program towards each of his individual student so that they can get what THEY as an individual want from the Kung Fu. I think that's part of what a good teacher does.

As something else to note... what people want from Martial Arts changes over time, no matter what mindset they went in with. So the guy thinking "I wana kick butt!" could all of a sudden become the hippy guy!:)

[Kay k]

Well said.

[Xebsball]

Martial Arts means method of fighting, it can be with or without weapons, 1 on 1 or multiple, etc.

[shaolinboxer]

"However you chose to define it, the art od [kung fu] has many dimensions: it is at once mental and physical, artistic and grotesque, practical and non-practical, violent and graceful, abstract and concrete, and scientific and animistic. Irreconcilable contradictions? I dont think so.... [Kung fu] is constantly in flux. Change, brought on by separate people, places and time, is the art's most characteristic feature. No single man can comprehend the entirety of [kung fu]"

- N. Gosei Yamaguchi