How much time do you hung sing clf people spend practicing your forms?

[phantom]

Considering that hung sing choy lay fut cotains around 100 forms, I am curious how many hours a day and how many days a week you hung sing people spend practicing each form in your style? Also, do you consider some forms to be more important than others and, as a result, spend more time on them? Thanks in advance.

[phantom]

ttt

[CLFNole]

I think very few sifus let along their students actually know 100 forms. There are always exceptions to the rule but generally speaking this would be the case.

If you know a lot of forms you practice the ones you like most often (ie. pillar forms and ones that suit you best). Others you practice less often but maintain them for teaching purposes since they could suit another better than you.

When it comes to my own training I will work various hand sets on one day, maybe staff and spear on another, short & flexible weapons on another day. Some days maybe I work just one form over and over.

Everyone is different some people don't have good memories and need to practice each form often to remember. I fortunately have a good memory and remember all the forms I know quite easily. However that said remembering and practicing are not the same so I do my best to maintain all of the forms. However, I tend to practice the ones I like more.

Peace.

[tparkerkfo]

Hello,

First I want to introduce myself as a wing chun and hung gar practitioner. I am very interested in ALL the southern martial arts. Choy Li Fut has always been very interesting for me, though I never studied it.

In both of my styles we only have a limited set of forms. Wing Chun 3 and Hung Gar 4 main hand sets. Wing Chun has two weapons and Hung Gar has several. The question I have is how do you guys feel the sets relate to one another? Do you need so many? Does each one offer something unqiue that all the other forms do not? I know you guys have two forms in particular can something wheel form. The first teaches the stances alone, then the other incorporates the hands. Are there a lot of specialty forms like this, which increases the numbers? Any general comments about the make up of the forms?

By the way, what are some good Choy Li Fut sites that have some good info?

Thanks in advance
Tom
________
COACH HANDBAGS (http://icoachhandbags.com/)

[Sho]

Try www.clfma.com. It has a handful of excellent articles and other material.

[Ben Gash]

5 wheel stance uaually isn't listed as a form as really it's a drill derived from 5 wheel fist (just as some Hung Kuen schools do a footwork drill based on fu hok).
As to the number? Well, OK, in total there are over a hundred CLF hand forms, but many forms aren't shared between lineages.
The fundamentals such as Siu Sup Ji, Siu Moi Fa, Sup ji Kau Da and Ping Kuen are usually shared, but after that it's a weird and wonderful mix. So let's say that those 4 plus 5 wheel fist are a starting point. Then add in a form for each of the 5 animals plus a combined 5 animals form. Then add in a palm and an elbow form. Then a couple of internal forms. A drunken form. A couple of signature fighting sets. Then a kicking set and a footwork set. Already we're up to 20 forms! Then create a more advanced and a more stripped down version of each of those sets and you're up to 60!

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

BenGash,

Only a stupid system will have over a hundered forms. It takes over a year to learn one form properly. Unless you have an extra long life expectancy, CLF is not a style for you.

That is why CLF practitioners are not proficient in any of the forms they do. The more dedicated students may have learned it in say 20 years. This means they learn 5 forms a year or one form in a bit over 2 months.

The old masters by the age of say 70 are either too weak to do the advance forms or memory loss has set in. As a result the quality of their teaching also drops. One would be better off learning from a beginner at least a beginner has less chance of croaking over while conducting the class and without the waling stick.

I think it is far to say that no one knows the CLF system in its completeness. This results in endless bickering on who's better than who between clf schools.

As a result they spar like kick boxers. all the form work comes to nothing unless they do solo work.

what a sorry state of affairs.

[Ben Gash]

Ego, did I not just say that the 100 forms figure is the total between all lineages? Most schools teach 20-40 hand forms. This does not mean that they are incomplete. They will know the complete Chan Hung Sing system, or the complete Jeong Hung Sing system or the complete Lee Hin system.
The kickboxing thing is a problem with all kung fu, not a CLF thing. Students at a good CLF school, just like any good kung fu school fight in their style. (I even trained for years in kickboxing, and I don't even fight like a kickboxer).
As for bickering, sure there are personal rivalries, but CLF generally presents a far more united front than most southern styles (your beloved SPM for example).

[monk weed]

I think the problem with the kickboxing style that people associate with clf is 1. clf resembles boxing with all the punching techniques that are in the system. 2. most people will not use the real power of clf i.e sou choy, chinchi choy and so on because they don't want to hurt their partner or the person they are sparing. 3. most will not use the infighting such as elbows and knees and finally the foot work involved in clf requires alot of practice. When one starts to spare someone that is ready to fight back they find that it is not so easy to use the footwork that they practice in forms.

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

BenGash,

Very true, it's more important to look at the contentns on what's being taught than the brand. Applies to all things kung fu is no exception. What is the minimum number of forms that is required to sufficiently represent 99% of a given lineage?

Monk weed,
yes there are limitations in free sparring. how would you address point 3 that you raised?

[monk weed]

Ego:
I'm not quite sure which part of point three you mean. Where I spare we break in a clinch so there is never any use for elbows or knees therefore there is little practical practice of these techniques. As far as the foot work goes I try to use what I practice in forms. I think for me the problem of timing and distance still needs to be addressed for my foot work be useful. I hope with time and practice my understanding will be better.

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Monkweed: timing and distancing is crucial. hope you achieve what you're aiming for.

[HuangKaiVun]

Indeed.

Let's see how your "timing and distance" fare up against my fake Mantis.

I want to see if I'm as bad as you say I am.

[extrajoseph]

Originally posted by Ego_Extrodinaire
BenGash,

Only a stupid system will have over a hundered forms. It takes over a year to learn one form properly. Unless you have an extra long life expectancy, CLF is not a style for you.

That is why CLF practitioners are not proficient in any of the forms they do. The more dedicated students may have learned it in say 20 years. This means they learn 5 forms a year or one form in a bit over 2 months.

The old masters by the age of say 70 are either too weak to do the advance forms or memory loss has set in. As a result the quality of their teaching also drops. One would be better off learning from a beginner at least a beginner has less chance of croaking over while conducting the class and without the waling stick.

I think it is far to say that no one knows the CLF system in its completeness. This results in endless bickering on who's better than who between clf schools.

As a result they spar like kick boxers. all the form work comes to nothing unless they do solo work.

what a sorry state of affairs.


Ego,

Must be a sorry state of affair that you did not get one bite from the CLF guys, (except Monk Weed) we know better. But don't stop, keep stirring and better luck next time. How far are you down the list?

:D

[NorthernMantis]

Heh ego is a funny character . Hey Sherlock for a northern mantis practitioner you sure make yourself look ignorant. Some northern mantis systems have more than a 150 forms. Quit whining about southern systems and move on with your life. I swear man you act like a kid sometimes. It would explain a lot.

[monk weed]

__________________________________________________ _
Must be a sorry state of affair that you did not get one bite from the CLF guys, (except Monk Weed) we know better. But don't stop, keep stirring and better luck next time. How far are you down the list?
__________________________________________________ __

saddly I'm new to this but I'll catch on!