Attn: reneritchie

[Merryprankster]

I responded to your bodylock question on the larger grappling thread. Don't know if you've seen it.

James

[yuanfen]

Piggybacking on this thread- since I cant find Rene's post on another thread readily- must be lost in all the shaolins.

On the origins of the slt.

Of course its ok to disagree on things.
One of the missing arts( specially on ma lists)
is expressing disagreements when it seems warranted and giving "good " reasons for differnt positions..( without taking offense in a knee jerk way)

My reason for an early (pre Red boat) pegging of the slt has to do with the time it takes to put together a tightly knit and properly fitting and conceptually sound form... its like the development of language ---it take s time. So my thesis is based on structural analysis not documents. CLF is a "recent " style for instance--
it involved cut and paste of differnt styles... and they have lots of forms. Taiji in the north and wc in the south have from different perspectives- compactness, internal elegance and 2(chen) or 3(wc) forms. It takes more than 100-150 years to make that kind of distillation. I think that the red junk era had more to do with
expanded figting usage,training rebels, sharing strategies and weapons -
while the foundations had evolved earlier over time. By inclination, habit and baclkground(my other life) I call this a tentaive thesis, not a dogma or a settled history. Again, I was nota fly on one of the shaolin temple wall and not on the deck of one of the junks.

[hunt1]

Shame on you Yuanfen for interjecting intellect into a discussion that for many is a matter of emotion and faith.

[reneritchie]

MP - Thanks, I'll go find and read. I very much appreciate it.

Joy - Understood and also appreciated. As I've said, I'm not closed to the possibility at all!

RR