stance training in clf

[monk weed]

What is the general opinion of the clf practitioners out there on stance training. Do you practice prolonged stances or do your form practice slow with exaggerated stances and then try to go full out. How many out there practice ng lun ma (five wheel stance) as part of there daily training?

[Fu-Pow]

CLF techniques emphasizes a strong root but also mobility. Deep stance training for long periods of time will definitely make your legs stronger but at what cost to mobility? The ng lun chui (che kuen) routine is great because it works on both aspects of mobility and rootedness.

In my school we do some static stance training but it is much less than what I did in my Hung Ga school (1st year of training). My Sifu emphasizes the transition/mobility aspect more than the deep stances held for a long time. I think that this is probably good in the long run for our style but when I teach I do more static training because I think beginners need to work on their leg strength and good structure.

[monk weed]

That is a good point on long static stances.I notice that when you do a form with power and speed one tends to be alittle upright. Also when practicing techniques that require mobility the stances are upright. I do the stance form for a total of 20 minutes sometime less. I do notice that my legs get stronger but was concerned about the mobility issue. Do you or anyone else have a problem with stance transition when appling applications? Sometimes I feel like I have 2 left feet. Any suggetions?

[Arhat of Fury]

IMHO There is no such thing as "stances" when you are fighting. Stance training makes you more solid on your feet as well as more capable/solid in different positions enabling you to deliver more power in your punches per position/need.

I do stance training with a 20LB vest on, this helps both roots and power(FOR ME)
As far as fighting and stances, I really never see stances come out. Once in a while one will pop up, but for the most part-not really.

Peace

AOF

[Fu-Pow]

As far as fighting and stances, I really never see stances come out. Once in a while one will pop up, but for the most part-not really.

Don't take this as a criticism but you may not be using your stances because you are fighting in more of a kickboxing style. Nothing wrong with kickboxing style fighting. One thing that we must remember is that all kung fu contains "infighting." Even a "long arm " style like CLF. Most people fight from too far away from their opponent. A deeper stance is required when you get closer so you can use your legs more effectively and uproot your opponent (Hung Ga fights very close so even deeper stances). Many times uprooting is more effective than simply trading punches back and forth. In other words, the ground hurts more than your fist. Anyone have any thoughts on this point?

[JAZA]

In my own experience I think that when we are rookies or newbies we don't understand the training of low stances and the fighting, someones thinks that low stances is the only way of correct fighting because is the only wayt he know.
Because if this way of thinking, for example, I made some exercise in a bad way, and know I will have to run with a bad knee all the life.

[monk weed]

Thank you guys for your responses.

Arhat of fury:
I see your point about "proper stances" during a fighting situation. When I spare I seldom use traditional stance because as fu pow said I will revert to a kickboxing style. What I was wondering about was the stances or I guess you might say movement in moving latterally. Does hard static stance training rob you of latteral movement.

Fu pow:
Interesting point. I have not given much thought to the take down aspects of the stances in clf. I want to dig deeper into this subject. Any more insight would be greatly appreciated.

Jaza:
Thank you for your input. I'm basically a newbie and want to avoid any unnecessary injuries.

[Fu-Pow]

Fu pow:
Interesting point. I have not given much thought to the take down aspects of the stances in clf. I want to dig deeper into this subject. Any more insight would be greatly appreciated.


You can use most of the stance transitions (combined with hand techniques) for take downs. Horse to bow and bow to horse. Cat stance works for take downs. The knee in kneeling horse stance can be used to crush your opponents leg. Crane stance is used to push kicks to the side and attack the other leg with Chan Fu or side kick. You've also got the more obvious sou geuk (sweep) and Chan Fu (dropping side kick.) Stepping in front to twist horse (dragon stance) is also called "stealing the step" where you pull your opponents front leg out from under them. You can also use the motion of twisting forward into dragon stance to break the foot or rake the shin (very painful.) You've also got leg hooks where you hook the opponents leg between the top of your foot and your shin and you pull up or press down (my personal favorite, N. styles uses this alot). That's just to start...there are many more that I'm probably not even aware of.

The point is don't forget your lower half.

[alecM]

Among your list you more or less named all of my favourite close rang fighting techniques (especially the kneeling horse stance). But one of my favourite attacks has to be charging horse stance, where you hit your opponents stance with your sei ping ma. I think this is a good example of combining the static stance training to strengthen the legs and footwork..

[Fu-Pow]

Alec-

I'm glad to see we're on the same page ;-).I assume you mean by "charging horse to mean "sliding in" with your stance? Yes another good strategy. Also, great for "closing the gap" with your opponent, while staying rooted down.

I've been having fun lately using my Taiji stuff against my CLF kung fu brother who used to train SPM. I just try to stick to him and don't let him free up his arms until I find an opportunity to push him off balance. Very cool. I guess the Chan Family trains this "sticky" kind of stuff too as a part of CLF.

So much to learn, so little time.

[alecM]

Sliding in sums up the technique perfectly. One of my favourite combinations is to slid in and knock whichever leg is nearest with sei-ping ma then a push using the shoulder followed by a biu-jong.
When I see CLF people spar against each other or against some of their friends who practice other styles, It’s these kind of leg techniques and the one’s you mentioned, I use to judge their skill levels and under standing of CLF.