Hfy

[bloodgod]

Im not sure why my post,s get removed when there are so many other people insulting each other. But here goes,perhaps i wont be erased this time.
HFY says that all WC that uses the 3 forms comes from the HFY family. Jeremy has said this numerous times. MAny people have asked about your family to find the truth. We all have a burning passion for WC. The VTM and HFy denies having anything to do with "marketing". Well you wont answer any questions but say the"book will be out" . So its all about selling thebook isnt it? Why cant we just talk about WC? Where did HFY come from? And where is the proof? You make claims but back up nothing. You critisize Hendrik for doing the very same thing. Why cant we openly compare HFy history with the Chu family? I will provide what i know from Koolo family for interest sake.

[Geezer]

Why cant we openly compare HFy history with the Chu family? I will provide what i know from Koolo family for interest sake.

Is this going to be the response Jim was waiting for:confused:


:D :D ;) :D :D

[bloodgod]

Jim already got my responce but the entire post was removed. Im not sure if he got the cahnce to read it before its "removal" I hope he did get to read it though. Why are you so interested? You need to help get that groundbreaking HFY book ready for the world.

[Grendel]

Originally posted by bloodgod
Jim already got my responce but the entire post was removed. Im not sure if he got the cahnce to read it before its "removal" I hope he did get to read it though. Why are you so interested? You need to help get that groundbreaking HFY book ready for the world.
There is no proof of historical contentions in Wing Chun, because no recorded documentation from the beginnings seems to exist. Anyone can therefore contend anything, apparently, and do so for their own purposes.

It is a good question why these "histories" were never asserted when Yip Man was around and only coming forward years after YM's death? The clear assumption is that all these marginal dubious lineages with undocumented histories were afraid to assert themselves when that meant challenge from the mainstream Wing Chun lineage.

Regards,

[Train]

Those are good points Grendel!

[Savi]

Originally posted by Grendel

There is no proof of historical contentions in Wing Chun, because no recorded documentation from the beginnings seems to exist. Anyone can therefore contend anything, apparently, and do so for their own purposes.

It is a good question why these "histories" were never asserted when Yip Man was around and only coming forward years after YM's death? The clear assumption is that all these marginal dubious lineages with undocumented histories were afraid to assert themselves when that meant challenge from the mainstream Wing Chun lineage.

Regards,

Gentlemen,

Please excuse the saying, but we cannot put the cart before the horse! (wait for the book for a fair trial!) Assumptions such as the above quoted should not be taken to full conclusion until the HFY family's book has been distributed and analyzed by the public. They are not being any more "secretive" than their numerous articles which have already been internationally published by some of the most well known Martial Arts magazines (like this one)! And it isn't any more of a "marketing" cloth as there are also other martial disciplines that have had many published articles! Should we call them "Marketing Hype" also? But truly, if we want answers why not write, or call, or visit the HFY branches (if close to one) and get the answers straight from the source?

This forum allows us to only offer so much. Most of the threads here have the idea that HFY can explain itself in a few postings on the Internet. But think about it, after all this, after ALL the postings (even the larger ones that Jeremy from the VTM have posted), the HFY family is bringing to the world an EXTREMELY in-depth and comprehensive BOOK with photos and illustrations just on HFYWCK! The first one in history no less! A BOOK! If I am correct it's going to be over 200 pages, single spaced, and NO... not big letter type stuff here! If you want some already tangible articles on HFY, do some research... it's out there! Seriously! Qigong Wushu Magazine, Inside Kung Fu magazine.... I don't have any to reference at hand. It's late for me. Write more laterz...

-Savi.

[CHS]

...the HFY family is bringing to the world an EXTREMELY in-depth and comprehensive BOOK with photos and illustrations just on HFYWCK! The first one in history no less! A BOOK! If I am correct it's going to be over 200 pages, single spaced, ...

I have been following the HFY threads for a while, and I personally feel that the VTM group is quite political and a little too blind in what they're doing... Again, that's just me.

Even though they preach time, space and energy, but no one can seem to explain much about it (at least in this forum), and I really wonder if they truly understand the concepts other than Master Gee.

Also, it seems like they also use many techniques/drills unique to Yip Man and YKS wing chun, i.e. Dan Chi Sau (YM) and Luk Sau (YKS). This seems wierd.

A book about the HFY? is the VTM in the "fund-raising" mode again??

Just kinda too creepy to me.

[Train]

Thanks Savi for putting that in perspective! Everyone here gives some good points and i do believe that first hand experience is the way to go. I don't know why everyone is giving HFY negetive comments.
If anyone thinks HFY is just marketing hype, well don't read it then! I personally like learning about other lineages other forms of histories. Becuase there are no documentations on the history of WCK, it's hard to say which is the real history.
CHS! i think what you said was very unnecessary. Have you ever met anyone from the VTM?? They are every very nice and humble group. I think they do a good job in trying to look for any history on wingchun and then present to the public. I don't see anyone else doing it. And besides, from what i've been reading, the VTM never was Preaching anything. What i read was people asking them questions and they simply answer them. Nothing creepy about that.

[Chango]

CHS,
Your claims of marketing and fundraising are of a offensive nature. How ever I will entertain your claims just this one time. I find it amazingly silly that you would accuse the VTM of marketing HFY. Or producing a book on WCK in the sole purpose to make money.

Again just to entertain your remarks. I point out how these claim lack any logic what so ever. Ok let's discuss marketing 101. If the VTM was interested in marketing or making a huge name. wouldn't it be logical to go with a system that is known world wide? (people by what they know) wouldn't it be logical to flood the market if you will with information about the product? I keep hearing how people have the feeling that we are not offern enough information on the topic. Availability and access to the product is the life and death of a product. Sp how would our come and see in person approach be consistant with this fundemental concept?Amoung other things it is clear that your claim go beyond any basic concept of marketing. So please do not accuse the museum or the HFY family of such disrespect of this treasure.

The idea that the production of a book is a fundraising tool for the VTM is just as off base as your last claim. When you take in a account the man hours and research that goes into writing a book of this nature. It is hardly one of a money making venture. keep in mind when you produce a bookof this nature the chances of breaking even can be very slim let alone making a profit. This does not hold water in the arena of logic. so please do not accuse the VTM or the HFY family of these things. The offer of information on both accounts are those in the spirit of sharing. I'm sorry but books are not free. However I think once on reads this extremely informative book it will change your views on many things. If not change your views I think it will challenge one to think deeper. The purpose of the book is to bring a better understanding of Wing chun as we know it. I think in the end you aree that it will be well worth your time a resorces. The internet has it's restictions a book has a more captive audience (if you will). So the ideas can be completed with out interuption and a deeper explination can be offered. None the less a book is still the written word and will lack clearity of face to face interaction and experiences. The VTM's release of this book is one to display the fruit of it's research and give a indepth look into WCK.

Chango (SGS) :cool:

[Geezer]

keep in mind when you produce a bookof this nature the chances of breaking even can be very slim let alone making a profit.

I *think* Rene made mention to the same experiance about Complete Wing Chun some time ago on the WCML.
That suprised me seeing as I found it to be very informative,a must buy for anyone interested in an overview of other styles of WCK.

Sheldon;)

[reneritchie]

Complete Wing Chun wasn't so bad because I had 2 other authors, as well as many kind folks who shares photos, etc. Still, what with shipping around the world during collaboration, and getting together once to finalize, it was still out of pocket (and probably will remain so until we do a new version with Bruce Lee on the cover ;) )

The YKS book was more expensive for me personally because I shot and developed (and shot and developed and...) all the photos myself, which really added up (we wanted to do them "live" with about 80% power/speed and that meant a lot of missed shots, a lot of re-shoots, etc.) and I had to make a trip to the designer to fix some problems, so all told, an expensive proposition for which I don't believe I'll ever recoup the investment. But that wasn't the purpose anyway.

RR

[Chango]

Sheldon, Rene,
Thankyou for your input. I hope you guys enjoy the book when it comes out. I have had a glance at some of the information included. I can only say that I'm very proud to be apart of the VTM and I can appreciate what it takes to build such a work.

Chango (SGS)

[hunt1]

To Chango and others from the VTM. I am not sure where to put this but since the topic in HFY I'll put it here. I ask this because you have compared HFY to TWC. You have said that even though the empty hand forms of these 2 styles share a great deal of choreography they are totally distinct and not related. Just today a friend passing through town played a very old,from the early 80s, seminar of William Cheung. In this he went into some detail of TWC fighting strategies and the use of time and space. Use of a technique within the proper time and space seemed a main theme. How is the TWC use of Time and Space in their fighting strategies different from HFYs usage? Is the fact that the 2 styles share a great deal of choreography of forms just a feak occurence?

[scuba steve]

The answer would be that William doesn't know the FORMULA!:D
------------------------------------------
"What's the frequency Kenneth?" <-- as said to Dan Rather.

[scuba steve]

1. Why chose a unknown system?

Ok, let's try and do this without naming names and violating the sacred tenets of this forum... :P

a) Sifu "X" says he has the traditional heretofore secret Wing Chun.

b) Sifu "Y" says he is the last closed door student of famous Sifu "N" and declares himself 8th dan of system.

c) Sifu "Z" becomes the last student of mainland chinese Sifu of other mainland Wing Chun system.

All are real people, all were looking for a differentiator. All marketing approaches to say "Hey! I have something unique here which you can ONLY get from my organization". It is brand marketing. If everyone else is selling soap, you have to make yours appear different.

Traditional vs Modified
Scientific vs Personal Expression
The Original Wing Chun vs Modified Wing Chun
etc. etc. etc.

Now mix in a dash of oriental mysticism, secret training, mainland authenticity and gwailos will just eat it up! :rolleyes:

Or at least in the old days people would. The pattern is pretty clear, and the HFY press relea...err "articles" in IKF/KF-Qigong have been along those lines. It may very well not be the VTM's intention, but that is the perception from out here in the cheap seats.

Good luck with the book, I'll be sure to pick up a copy when it comes out.

Peace out


Originally posted by Chango
CHS,
Your claims of marketing and fundraising are of a offensive nature. How ever I will entertain your claims just this one time. I find it amazingly silly that you would accuse the VTM of marketing HFY. Or producing a book on WCK in the sole purpose to make money.

Again just to entertain your remarks. I point out how these claim lack any logic what so ever. Ok let's discuss marketing 101. If the VTM was interested in marketing or making a huge name. wouldn't it be logical to go with a system that is known world wide? (people by what they know) wouldn't it be logical to flood the market if you will with information about the product? I keep hearing how people have the feeling that we are not offern enough information on the topic. Availability and access to the product is the life and death of a product. Sp how would our come and see in person approach be consistant with this fundemental concept?Amoung other things it is clear that your claim go beyond any basic concept of marketing. So please do not accuse the museum or the HFY family of such disrespect of this treasure.


Chango (SGS) :cool:

[Redd]

Secret formulas. Quasi-religious cults. New versions of history. Endless attitude and debate.

Humbug.

And for drumming up support, ironic.

[bloodgod]

You only answer questions when you have an answer to give. The truth has been obvious for a long time.
Kind god

[Chango]

BloodGod,

I have better things to do with my time then contributing to arguments. The book is coming out for those that have genuine interest. keep in mind when reading this knowlege is precise. If you kinda have it or know it then you really don't. So the higher ground has been taken here. I just hope that when you do recieve more information ego and other things do not get in the way. I truely understand your position. Given my strong personality I would respond the same way. In fact I hate to admit it I did respond in a very simular fashion until I learned more. That being said I will give you the last word. I understand. I'm sure it will be more of the same. I hope I'm wrong.

Chango (saat geng sau) :D

[tparkerkfo]

Hi Chango,

Good to see you again. It is a shame that you guys get so much abuse. Sorry to see it. You guys seem to be in a love/hate relationship with others.

When is that book comming out? I would be currious in picking it up. I hope it follows in Rene's led of upping the antee for martial arts books. Tired of all the picture books. LOL. I'll be keeping an eye out.

Hey, If I buy it from the museum, can I get all your guys' autograph? I still need Rene's, et all on the ther ones.

Tom P
________
ANAL TUBE (http://www.****tube.com/categories/2/anal/videos/1)

[Geezer]

Hi Tom,

You not out to get Sandmans job are you, they already have a moderator over here;)


I'm only joking,good to see you over here:)

Sheldon:)

[tparkerkfo]

Kinda scary huh!!!!

This place fees like home. I "know" about half the guys here from various places. LOL. I will be lurking mostly on this forum, I feel I have chased every one out of the other forums and I don't want to do that herer; ) I'll just be popping out now and again when I just cant stand something, and have to reply.

Tom
________
ISRAELI RECIPES (http://www.cooking-chef.com/israeli/)

[kj]

Originally posted by tparkerkfo
I feel I have chased every one out of the other forums and I don't want to do that here

Yes it was you. Dang, how'd you find us? :mad:

[You know I'm kidding ;) ;) ... nice to see you anywhere.]

FWIW, you have depressed me though. I checked your profile, saw your birthday, and ... crikey! I am old enough to be your mother. :eek: I may need to buy myself some wrinkle cream later on to feel better ...

Regards,
- kj

[tparkerkfo]

Jeeze I didn't realize all that stuff would be wide open. Oh well... got nottin to hide.

Wow, how do I answer this post without sound too cliche or getting my butt kicked next year? I wouldn't worry about the wrinkle cream, ya don't need it.

Now that I think I succesfullly killed this post.

Tom
________
Coach Purses (http://icoachhandbags.com/)

[reneritchie]

Yeah, if KJ was born preggers and Tom grew at freakish clone-speeds and time dilation occured at just the right moment and...

Otherwise, it's grand-pappy Tombo!

(that's how)

[yuanfen]

Originally posted by tparkerkfo
I feel I have chased every one out of the other forums and I don't want to do that here
---------------------------------------------------------
Sometimes feelings can be trusted... no? <g>

[bloodgod]

I understand your position. I understand you whole heartedly believe in what the VTM's findings are. But the questions i asked dont require me to read the book(which i plan on getting). All it took was for you to take some time and answer me thoughtfully. I came off wrong, so i am partialy to blame for you not communicating with me, but you have also not communicated with tons of people who honestly want the VTm to show proof of there claims. Jeremy said that hendrik was guilty of not show documentation of the claims he made- so why doesnt that apply to you or the VTM. \
I thought we could discuss the hei gung aspect. I want the truth. But since you are going to make me wait for the book i have to pay for,(which i will buy even if you did have a discussion with me) i tend to beleive your intentions and the VTMs are not good. If th;ey were, you would do your best to lead me from ignorance. Or perhaps i would lead you jfrom ignorace with my families knowledge which i know indepth. So you dont want to help me and you dont want your reality challenged. Thanks brother. Kind god

[Chango]

BloodGod,
I find it interesting how you framed the your last post. This may not be your intentions but it seems to be framed as a trap. I think if I point this out you will see my point.

(snip) But since you are going to make me wait for the book i have to pay for,(which i will buy even if you did have a discussion with me) i tend to beleive your intentions and the VTMs are not good. If th;ey were, you would do your best to lead me from ignorance. Or perhaps i would lead you jfrom ignorace with my families knowledge which i know indepth. So you dont want to help me and you dont want your reality challenged. Thanks brother. Kind god

So what you are saying is if I do not play with you. It will mean the VTM and I are up to no good? and we do not want our information challenged? Come on man this is rediculous! The VTM is now seeking world domination?? Via martial arts books, articles and providing a place for all WCK to be documented and brought to the general public? They demand that you come and experience Time and space first hand! so it has to be a gimick! Do you hear yourself? So what do we do when you show up brain wash you into believeing? come on man please!! (LOL)

I did not join this forum as a duty to the VTM. I did this forum for fun and interaction with fellow Shaolin and WCK practitioners. I know that It is well known that I'm a VTM staff member. however anything that I post is mine. In other words I speak for me not the VTM and Not my HFY family. if you take the time to read my post closer I tell you that I "personally" did not look into the Koolo information as close as some others at the VTM have. It did not catch my attention. This was a personal choice. My duties as a staff member does not require that I handle the VTM's information that has been gathered from the Koolo lineage. I know only of it in the general since. I wanted that to be very clear before I even went further. I do not make statements about lineages that I do not know about. That is why I was ask yourself and Rene Ritchie exactly how much HFY do you know. If you do not know the formula then I cannot say that your conclusion are qualified in my personal judgement. I told you what Koolo information I had first hand and You said that what Robert Chu is doing is "watered down" and not a representation of Koolo. I do not personally know your lineage enough to argue this point so I choose not to touch it. Seeing that my name is associated with the VTM weather it be casual conversation or not I should seek better topics then who is doing pure this or that when it comes to WCK. This sort of thing gets in the way of any true learning. The truth comes out when we get into deeper aspects of the art. Nothing else need be said.

So to further things I will just say that when of if I choose to look into koolo further. If I have any questions after I review the VTM's information. I will keep you in mind. If you feel like you can offer some insight to the VTM please contact the VTM you will find the staff to be open a freindly. However at this point I respectfully do not have any further PERSONAL interest in the Koolo lineage. This might change in the near future but at this point that is the fact. You do not use your real name on these post so this leaves you with no responsiblity for what is said. I cannot see where going further with this thread can benifit anyone. I hope you do get the book. Maybe at that point we can have a healthy discussion about my lineage and family. I wish you well and I hope you find the information that you seek. But in this present enviorment I don't wish to further this thread.

Chango (saat geng sau)

;)