Chi Sim Weng Chun San Sik

[FIRE HAWK]

Hi sifu Hoffman could you tell me what kind of San Sik techniques are in Chi Sim Weng Chun i believe i herd that Baat Sik Dan Da (Eight Form Single Hit ) is in Chi Sim Weng Chun and somthing called Weng Chun Eleven hands San Sik what i am wondering is that the Wing Chun San Sik that is found in Yuen kay Sans Wing chun comes from Cheung bo who is said to have learned his wing Chun from Way Yuk San the who is of the Fung Sui Ching Weng Chun lineage so it is said that Cheung Bos wing Chun comes from the Fung Sui Ching lineage so is the Wing Chun of Cheung Bo the San Sik the same as that as found in Chi Sim weng Chun does Chi Sim San Sik have poetic names like Cheung bo Wing Chun ? I am just wondering because both Cheung Bos San Sik Wing Chun and Chi Sim Weng Chun come from the same source Fung Sui Ching and Dai Fa Min Kam .

[Andreas Hoffman]

Hello Fire Hawk,

our weng chun kuen is more a conceptual style than a technique style- so the heart are Luk Dim Boon principles-18-Kiu Sau and the 10 wisdoms. In our forms we have all San Sik we need.
For special situations some of my ancestors created different San Sik methods from our style. But they are different in each family.
Let us concentrate on the essence of our Fung Siu Ching weng chun kuen.
We don´t use poetic names, we use conceptual/principle names.
If you feel the concept/principle you have the name, this keep weng chun kuen simple and connected with reality.

According our ancestors our line is from: Fung Siu Ching-Dai Fa Min Kam -Wong Wah Bo.

I don´t like to speak for other lineage, I like to share the treasure of the teaching from our masters and our ancestors.

Andreas Hoffmann

[yuanfen]

our weng chun kuen is more a conceptual style than a technique style- so the heart are Luk Dim Boon principles-18-Kiu Sau and the 10 wisdoms.
----------------------------------------------------
Andreas- has your style always used the name Luk Dim Boon for the pole. Any idea why? There seems to be different names for poles. Thanks and regards, Joy

[Andreas Hoffman]

Joy,

yes, we alway used Luk Dim Boon Kwun - it described the weng chun kuen essence, the 6 1/2 principles:
Lau is 50 % and the other 6 are combined with Lau:
Tai-Lan-Dim-Kit-Got-Wun.
They are the "DNA" of weng chun.
Andreas Hoffmann

[yuanfen]

Thanks for your explanation.
There are apparently different views on the name of the pole
and I was curious about yours.

[bloodgod]

Thank you for sharing sifu Hoffman- i really enjoy "real" WCK discussion. You have put a smile on my face.
I am from the Koolo family. I would like to discuss with you some historical information that we preserve in our family. If i understand you, weng chun comes from fung siu ching who learned from dai fa min kam who learned from wong wah bo?
Here is what i dont understand- In Koolo and YKS we trace our systems to Wong Wah Boe. Wong taught Leung jan and Fok bo chun. Leung jan's most famous student in Fatsan was Chan Wah shun and of cource when he retired to Koolo village taught his Pin sine Concept. Fok bo chun taught Yuen Kay San. YKS also learned chin na and application from fung siu ching.
So-why did Leung JAn and Fok bo chun learn the Wing Chun with the 3 handforms from Wong Wah Boe but in your family Wong wah Boe taught "weng chun"? Did all the forms you learned in "chi shim weng chun" come from Wong Wah boe or only the Sam pai fut? I dont understand how Leung jan and Fok bo chun learned "wing chun" but Dai fa min kam learned "weng chun"- please help[ shead light on this for me

[reneritchie]

Bloodgod,

In legend, Wong Wah-Bo learned Weng Chun before Wing Chun, and Fung Siu-Ching learned aboard the Red Junks before they were destroyed by General Yip Ming-Chan (before Wong went to Foshan and taught Leung and Fok). Therefore, it's possible Dai Fa Min Kam only learned the Weng Chun (there's no evidence of his teaching Wing Chun), and passed it on to Fung, while Wong passed the Wing Chun (and elements of Weng Chun such as the pole, dummy, etc.) on to Leung and Fok.

RR

[Hendrik]

Originally posted by reneritchie
Bloodgod,

In legend, Wong Wah-Bo learned Weng Chun before Wing Chun, and Fung Siu-Ching learned aboard the Red Junks before they were destroyed by General Yip Ming-Chan (before Wong went to Foshan and taught Leung and Fok). Therefore, it's possible Dai Fa Min Kam only learned the Weng Chun (there's no evidence of his teaching Wing Chun), and passed it on to Fung, while Wong passed the Wing Chun (and elements of Weng Chun such as the pole, dummy, etc.) on to Leung and Fok.

RR


Rene,

It seems that

"Cheong Bo prayed to Fujian's White Crane Weng Chun's ancestors as ancestor. So, Cheong Bo's Weng Chun is related to Fujian's White Crane Weng Chun.

And the Dragon punch of YKS is exactly the same with the Dragon of Eating Crane, a branch of FuJian's White Crane which settle in Taiwan's Liu Family."

On the other hand, The " Tong Nuo.." Kuen kuit is closer to Northern Shao LIn type of Long fist Tai Tzu DNA.

So, there might be more then one Weng Chun in the red boat.
In additional to the Praise the Sping Wing Chun Kuen.


So, IMHO, there might be three WC there

a, the White Crane weng Chun
b, the Weng Chun which is closer to Northen Shao Lin
C, The Wing Chun which is closer to White Crane weng Chun from Fujien.


The DNA of White Crane type Weng Chun or Wing Chun has the Characteristics of " Lay Lao Hei Song" or Squarely face and make use the incoming force. With San Chin based or YJKYM SLT based.


The DNA of Shao Lin type Weng Chun has the Characteristics of "Tong nuo..." Fast step, to meet and dealing with the in coming force. Shao Lin Long Fist Tai Tzu based.

Two different DNAs.
Both are respectable, Nothing good or bad, just art from different ancestors.

What do you think?

[FIRE HAWK]

Thanks for the information guys .
Hendrik
Great thereory i wonder if Wong Wah Bo ,Leung Yee Tei , Dai Fa Min Kam , and Leung Jan and others new that there where different types of Wing Chun or Weng Chun on the boats or they new different versions and just decided to teach students different versions of Wing Chun or Weng Chun and Fujian Bok Hok Weng Chun Kuen .We all ready know that there were different types of Wing chun or Weng Chun on the Red boats . So i wonder what other types of Wing chun or Weng Chun were on the red boats at the time Wong Ah Bo and Dai Fa Min Kam and Leung Yee Tei where on those boats ? I think i read that there was a Hung Gar style that used the name Weng Chun Hung Kuen or something like that .

[FIRE HAWK]

For special situations some of my ancestors created different San Sik methods from our style. But they are different in each family

Could you tell me what some of these San Sik are called ?

[Andreas Hoffman]

Dear all,

I enjoy our sharing about weng chun/wing chun kuen. As a successor of my style I don´t like to add my personal view into the discussion. Again my masters and ancestors teached:

Wong Wah Bo- Dai Fa Min Kam - Fung Siu Ching.

Our San Sik names are personal development from different masters to help students who are for example bodyguards or masters from other styles. These students had not the time to learn the whole weng chun kuen.
For the students who are learning the whole weng chun kuen they have to learn the conceptual and "personal feeling" way which can also be a spiritual way.

Andreas Hoffmann

[Hendrik]

Originally posted by FIRE HAWK

Hendrik
Great thereory i wonder if Wong Wah Bo ,Leung Yee Tei , Dai Fa Min Kam , and Leung Jan and others new that .........or something like that .


a, One don't need theory.
One only need to face the variations as it is to see what it is and to accept what it is.

b, One need to contact Micheal J Fox to go back to the Red Junk and ask those ancestors for their personal thought:D

[bloodgod]

Thanks for sharing Rene. I hadnt heard that. IT would make sence. Of cource WWB could have taught Dai fa min kam Wing chun and Dai fa min kam could have mixed it with hung gar.

[bloodgod]

Thanks for sharing Rene. I hadnt heard that. IT would make sence. Of cource WWB could have taught Dai fa min kam Wing chun and Dai fa min kam could have mixed it with hung gar.