Punching the lead hand of a taller fighter.

[Merryprankster]

In a boxing context-- I was jabbing his lead hand, then I'd slip right (because I knew the counter right over my jab was coming), step in and right and throw hooks to the body.

Works like a charm! Interrupts their ability to keep you off them and stay outside. You have to watch for the rear side counter, but if you apply forward pressure and circle to their lead, you're jamming the attacks on that side and staying away from the rear side anyway. Also, they're moving backwards--laterally perhaps, but backwards, and it's hard to throw rear side shots going backwards with anything on them, whether you're kicking or whatever.

Hellooooooooo body shots!

[Tainan Mantis]

Merryprankster,
If I understand you, you are turning counter clockwise as you are going toward the right, correct?

For the sake of argument let us say that your opponent decided to also go towards your right in a counter clockwise manner.
Except that as you went for the body shot he went for the head shot.
Would this be a problem for your head?

I would like to know your opinion on this possible outcome.

I ask because we do this as one of the basic techniques of praying mantis, except that there is probably a lot more jump and turn than I would see in a boxer, but seems like the same principle.

Of course if I was wrong about the counter clockwise turn in the beginning then my question probably doesn't make sense.

[crumble]

Are you steping in to right and then coming around with a left hook?

Is it his commitment to the cross over your jab that allows you to take the outside?


-c

[rogue]

Without gloves try that move but use an open hand instead of a punch. Should get the same result.

[apoweyn]

would you people please stop giving him ideas. if, when we get together and spar, i end up catching some gloveless, open-handed whack in the head, i know who i'm blaming!

[fa_jing]

Well, I don't usually spar against taller fighters, but I do find the right hook to the body to be the easiest body shot to land as a first shot. The problem that I have with it, though, is that I always end up in a clinch from this. One shot and then a clinch doesn't really fit into my game plan, it's really just a matter of telling my feet to backpedal, however my stupid feet don't listen.:(

[Royal Dragon]

Instead of a body shot, can you get the head? Or how about a hard cupped shot to the back of the neck?? If I understand you right, I do this often myself, only I go for the head because it's exposed and you get a bigger bang for your buck that way.

Remember the Kung Fu principal "one covers two" It sounds like this is what you are doing. :eek: Say it can't be so!!!!!!

[Merryprankster]

Tainan Mantis,

I think the mechanics are similar, yes. Assume two right handed boxers. for the next bit. When I step to my right, I'm loading my right side for a right hook to the body (which I then throw). If I were NOT throwing a punch, I would have to be turning counterclockwise in order to maintain appropriate angling. So yeah, I think we're talking about roughly the same thing. I'm not worried about his right hand counter at this point--I'm too far inside for it to be of effect, I'm getting him moving so he can't throw it from a good distance, and I was slipping and stepping as I entered to take myself off the line for the counter. He'd have to throw it across his body--weak punch. Once you eat the hook to the ribs a couple of times, you don't try to hit somebody in the head from that distance anymore--you move, then try to hit them in the head! :)

Crumble, I'm not sure what you're talking about. I step right, throw right. I lead left, and I'm looking to get off the center and inside.

RD, I have to set my hook to the head up. His lead is up, but after I throw the hook to the body, it's not--his elbow comes down a bit. I follow up with a hook to the head. When I get it, it's niiiiiiiiiiice. I can't really reach his head otherwise. I don't really get what you mean by one covers two. Explain.

[Royal Dragon]

One covers two - Get to his side, and cover his lead hand, grab and pull forward a bit to turn his shoulder. This pulls his other shoulder back, making it impossible to use in offence. Because of your body position, your free hand is ready to launch attacks at will.

Basically, your body position and control of his one hand is giving you controll of his second hand effectively neutralising it, or one covers two. It is a VERY Kung Fu principal.

I have been doing this for years, but reacently someone put it to words for me so I can articulate it easily..

[yenhoi]

Hows about breaking his hand with your elbow?

err... :eek:

[MonkeySlap Too]

I used to have a lot of TKD guys come to my club to try us out. Their peculiar 90 degree angle position of their lead hand resulted in us always b!tch slapping their lead hand, causing them to hit themselves in the forehead.

This was before 'olympic' style and they didn't even bother to raise their hands...

The few guys that new some boxing were a little tougher because they weren't locked in that 'box'.

[Braden]

Do it open-hand and off-balance him as you enter and you're doing bagua. :)

Make sure you've got his lead side. If he's good at switching it up, he will fake you into chasing it, and be able to take your outside be simply rotating his body while you try to step. If you can coordinate a lower-body attack (eg. leg-jamming) with this move, it may distract someone from doing the fake.

[Losttrak]

Punching the hand of a taller fighter... I know Pan Ching Fu claimed to have done that since he was soo much shorter than his opponents.. but that was while they were punching. Is that what u intend? If you mean while they are in some sort of fighting posture i suppose it might work but its usefulness depends on what you are trying to achieve. If its simply to distract and prepare for entry then I guess it could work once or twice. Always risky to rely on a repetitive technique to save the day. If he can adapt well he will use your fixation of his lead hand to lead you into a "trap".

[Xebsball]

Boxing is ok, but Xing Yi is vastly superior.

[Merryprankster]

Boxing is ok, but Xing Yi is vastly superior.

And nothing matches Kalari. :D


Anyway, I'm not fixated on the lead hand, and I did on occasion, punch it as it came out. The thing is, you double/triple up, and step in when you do so. For him to remain in good range, he's gotta move--plus, that jab might get through and hit something that isn't his lead hand. Heck I was happy if I made contact. It's a throwaway punch on a fighter that tall. I'm not going to be able to outjab and outbox him--gotta get inside and brawl. You really do have to watch for that counter right--you CANNOT stay put doing this, but have to move and be ready to slip at the same time, and forward, forward, forward. Can't let him plant or he hits you.

Braden, interesting point. From a fight perspective, I would use that opportunity to clinch for a body lock of some kind.

RD, I'm doing a more rudimentary version of this one covers two. I can't grab the SOB in Boxing, so I am using my jab and movement to both attack and defend. A similar principle--my jab covers my movement. My movement covers my jab.

[yenhoi]

The good grappler would break the **** hand. :eek:

[Royal Dragon]

Yup, sounds like what I'm saying. Try it in MMA with those little open finger gloves so you can grab, and POUND AWAY BABY!!!!!!

[Merryprankster]

RD,

yeah, I hold and hit all the time :)


Yenhoi, a good grappler would actually just flip out and cut his head off. Or maybe that's a ninja...

[Diu Sao]

Even though I am six feet tall I am often times the taller fighter in most sparring or gong sao matches (non lethal of course). One of my Kwoon brothers uses a direct strike to my forearm (usually about 6 to 9 inches below my thumb) to counter my barrage of long fist techniques. This counter usually works against a Sow Choi, Cup Choi and occassionally against a Loy Yum Choi. This usually leaves me with a nice bruise right between the muscle. I personally like to bring up my fist at the last moment and let them strike the bone with their knuckle(s). This, of course, can be a risky manuever.

It's nice to have long arms :)



Diu Sao