a real street situation

[Cesar Perez]

hello im new in this site but has any of you beeen in a real life situation and used your wc if so tell me kind of curous.

although i go to no system or style i practice my own interpretation of jkd or real street defense, i dont go by any style becuse i dont think they are not useful only the fundamentals, i went to american kempo karate for five months to learn the fundamentals, i just needed a bit of instruction first to continue, im not trying to offend anyone but the truth is that almost any system doesnt work on the street wc is one of the most effective one because it is basiclly kickboxing. another reson i dont go for styles is because you take a long time to learn how to defend yourself sometimes u build false confidence and u didnt learn how to defend urself, usefulness in the beggening is essential atleastr u have to be a bit useful three months after u started thanks for reading

[Slo Mo]

Bwahahahahahhaahahaa!!!

Thanks for the laugh, I needed that.

Some great quotes from Cesar Perez:

"wc is one of the most effective one because it is basiclly kickboxing"

"uefulness in the beggening is essential atleastr u have to be a bit useful three months after"


One question i have to ask you...what is Bruce Lee to you?

[Atleastimnotyou]

WC is nothing like kickboxing. the wing chun you've seen musta been crap if it looked like kick boxing

[TenTigers]

Hey, yer well on your way. Great Grandmaster Richard Cranium also created his own system. He figured that schools try to show you their best stuff in the intro classes, to get you to sign up, so he went from school to school taking the free introductory classes, and conbining all the techniques to form his own system, Mu-Shin Do, the way of No-Mind. The symbol is a brain with the circle and slash through it. Their motto is "no way are we using a way" he does not teach forms, which he feels are useless, but teaches instead,a series of sets of movements designed to develop the student for combat.

[anerlich]

Cesar, the things that stand out most in your post are your ignorance of Wing Chun, your ignorance of Kung Fu and fighting in general, and your inability to type and spell.

As first posts go, yours was singularly unimpressive.

[yuanfen]

Cesar- you are one funny guy!

[TkdWarrior]

LOLOL...
do u think ur "no system" comes from NO SYSTEM...
stupidity it is i basically said... well i never used WC in street but i hav used one art which is basically known for its ineffectiveness, the art which is totally McDojo favoring err. McDojang favoring..
u know wat it's Called ?? yea baby it's TKD or TaeKwon-Do ...

to go by no style u hav to understand a style first then only u can condemn it, stop condemning when u don't know in and out of the system... even bruce when he went to america he knew 3/4 of wudden dummy, never completed his third form (i guess jesse glover himself stated that??)

"but the truth is that almost any system doesnt work on the street "
when TKD works then i guess i can make any style work too...
well say it u r not cut out for MA or u've been lazy enuff

-TkdWarrior-

[Cesar Perez]

iam not lazy because i put my best effort in my training i know jkd has a bit of wc and other arts, i bet if u face a muay thai kick boxer he would kick ur a** and what i say about wc is true u have an upper cut u hab a cross and other things ur basicly re inventing boxing in a way i want to be street effective if u are blinded by ur system that is ur problem i was ust trying to help. oh and to me tkd sucks if the guy was more expirience he wouldve kicked your a** and if the guy had alot of expirience then the unexpirience are harder to fight .

"the unexpirience fighter with a lot of anger is the worthy opponent "

[TenTigers]

ok, Ceasare, I think we've finished with the hazing. Now, let's get down to buisness:

" i dont go by any style becuse i dont think they are not useful only the fundamentals"
-ok, it's ALL fundamentals-the only difference between a black belt and a white belt is the black belt has his basics down tight. All 'advanced' techniques are simply the same fundamental techniques with a keener sense of timing and distance."From the Large comes the Small" the advanced techniques get tighter, like closer tolerances on high performance engines.

"the truth is that almost any system doesnt work on the street"
Bolderdash, whippersnapper! Any Traditional system that you see today has survived due to the fact that they ARE effective. They were developed on the battlefield, fighting against highly trained, skilled martial artists, and constantly refined over centuries. Nothing has changed in today's world, all attacks are simply angles of attack, nothing new has been created. (Guns don't count for obvious reasons)a tire iron will come down at your head the same way a broadsword will.
"wc is one of the most effective one because it is basiclly kickboxing."
to the outsider, I can see how you would make that assumption, but WC is far from simple kickboxing.
Yes it does take a long time to be able to defend yourself-against SKILLED FIGHTERS. There are no shortcuts, anywhere,ever. To develop proper structure, develop power,timing, distance, reflexes, reaction speed, etc, etc, takes TIME,EFFORT, HARD WORK-why do ya think it's called KUNG-FU?
there are no quick fixes, no silver bullets, no magic pills, sorry to burst your bubble.

[TkdWarrior]

oh yea i forgot TKd sucks didn't i said so?? well never mind i m sayin it again "tkd sucks" i forgot to tell u i hav faught MT's WC's KF's, JJ's, Judoka's , wrestlers, boxers...it's not that i m invincible i hav lost many fights...but i was smart enough to put myself into situations and get out of it using my head..i found counters to every move basically in my style... i m not closed to other styles becuz i know therre r ppl who can kick my A4s and there hav been kicked by many stylists...

u tell u know JKD then tell me about it...wat is JKD??

and about WC having hook and uppercut makes it kickboxing??
well then i guess most MA r kickboxing...cause i hav seen KF's guys, karetakas, boxers using those more often than not...
my Tkd always says to me "be unimportant" and thats wat i m...
u r ignorant about Tkd then i can say don't be...at least i m not ignorant about any style...
oh yea My primary art is Tkd, then later on evolevd in MT and Tai-chi.
i m saying again stop condemning otherwise ppl will think u r keyboard warrior(me too as i'll fight:D )
yup u r not lazy i can see that... :D

-TkdWarrior a.k.a. KeyBoardWarrior -

[TkdWarrior]

nice post ten tigers simple and to the point.
-TkdWarrior-

[Cesar Perez]

thanks for posting that quote " knowledge like sex is better when its free" this means that a system must be free free of teqniques which lead no where in street defense why should you folow something hundreds of years old, if u learn to write u are not going to spend all ur life coping stories other people wrote u are going to want to write ur own which works for u ur own interpretation the same thing with ma it must be free a punch is only a punch a kick is only a kick. in a fight you dont think what u are going to do u do it. tecniques dont work unless ur as fast as superman that goes for the complicated ones when u train u must have someone attacking back not ust leave their hand out there and wait for u to do the tecnique. i forgot to tell u that i think kung fu is more effective than karate. please stop arguing because no one is ever going to win , im a really good devater won several debates.

[Grendel]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Cesar Perez
[B]Go troll somewhere else. Take TRolling Hand with you.

[anerlich]

Originally posted by Cesar Perez
im a really good devater won several debates.

Was this back at the "special school" or what?

You're losing *this* debate big time, boy.

By the way, more than a few of us crosstrain in several arts. And I've read Tao of JKD, got a fairly good library of Vunak tapes, and probably read all the websites you got your regurgitated JKD propaganda from. All the stuff you're spouting we've all heard before. You could go to the JKD forum, but they'll probably tell you you're full of it too.

I respect JKD, I just don't respect your ignorant missives.

[vingtsunstudent]

with a little help from us and a hand to piont him in the right direction i'm betting this guy could end up being raleks first student.
someone send him to where he can see gracie's in action series and he may even surpass ralek in a very short time.
personally i don't think it will be to long before laa laa land becomes a major player in the economics and running of the not-so-free world, esp. if they keep sending there most interlectual of ambassadors out and showing us all the errors of our way.
vts

[anerlich]

And Cesar, if you want to read about how Wing Chun did in a real fight, read my thread "a REAL real street situation."

Based on actual experience, rather than what you and the other patients were discussing in the activities room.

[Cesar Perez]

explain my ignorance then i will respond i aint full of anything that is my way of thinking good thing i saw the truth about systems although i respect the people that do them i dont tell them to drop out or anything just warning them.

"a black belt means youve payed your way to get to the black belt, but u cant beat a fly"






if i was with people of my type backing me up id be winning wont argue over an unanswerable question waste of my time waste of urs lets start fresh pretend i never post anything and thats it.

[Mr Punch]

i agree completely with cesar i see the light. why follow a hundreds of years old system just because it works and has lasted for a hundreds of year/? this is why i'm free free of the constrictive restorictions of grammer spelling and puntuation but i still won many lots of devates.

Ok, enough taking the **** out of the brother's English, but his crassness... time to start:

i follow my own interpreation of JKd, not bruce lee's JkD but my own cos he said not to follow a system so you have to follow your own style's interpretation so i follow him in that his system but my interpretation of it. you have to free yourself ofthe restrictions of any basicsd from old styles that took him years to learn, to realise that there are only basics to be free, a punch is a punch, a kick is a kick, and a pointing finger is a pointing finger. how can you be fight without thinking if you think it'll take too long so you have to free yourself of thinking like i have just trying to help.

tryng to help you out of your classical mess that i haven't trained in so i can see.



Cesar. Reality check.

You are training in a non-system, the founder of which specifically said DO NOT FOLLOW. You say it's your own interpretation which is what 9/10 of other practitioners of JKD with scant experience of, or attention span for, other martial arts say. JKD is about finding your own interpretation of any effective basics from any martial art. I practise WC, among many other things. I love it. But, I am not blind. I know its limitations and my limitations within wingchun, because I have tested it. I have "my own interpretation" of wingchun as does every single person that practises any martial art at any level because we are all individuals, except, that is, for some JKD people (or any other martial arts dogmatists) who sometimes come on a wingchun board to help us, and to tell us that we are all full of ****, because only they are following a free and effective interpretation of martial arts.

Brucey-baby loved wingchun, and did great things for the martial arts world. According to his own words, and those of Linda Lee, his close friends and training partners like Hawkins Cheung, Jesse Glover etc, he only stopped formal wingchun because he had no further access to it, and that he always considered JKD to be his interpretation of wingchun. Unfortunately I have grown to hate the cocky little git for the horde of JKD insects that try to drown out the serious JKDers and other serious martial artists, who everyday are working on their interpretations of whatever style they do.

Lose the dogma.

In fact, go to the JKD forum.

Whatever, but please, **** off!

Big phat :rolleyes:

Good day to you sir.

[Mr Punch]

Originally posted by Cesar Perez
if i was with people of my type backing me up id be winning wont argue over an unanswerable question waste of my time waste of urs lets start fresh pretend i never post anything and thats it.

Better than pretence, how about not posting again!!!??? :D

[TenTigers]

Most people who know me will agree that I am a staunch traditionalist, a free-thinker,rebel who will always buck the system, but a traditionalist nonetheless. That being said, let me clarify something for you: Mo-Wai (Cant) or Wu-Wei (Mand) means no-mind, or the point in your training where you respond spontaneously, without concious thought. This is a result of countless hours, days, weeks, years of training. Bruce Lee tried to aciheve this state and described it as JKD. Nothing new, we've known about it for eons.He didn't reinvent the wheel. EVERY traditional martial art has this end in mind as its goal. All the forms are is a catalogue of your systems training, techniques, able to be handed down from one generation to the next, completely intact. If you do not have forms, then you would probably have a series of notes,such as Bruce Lee's endless volumes. The trouble is, what happens if you lose your notebooks? Fire, flood, theft, whatever. Your whole lifetime of study, all your discoveries, revelations, best training techniques etc,etc, are GONE. With your forms, you can rewrite endless volumes. Nei ji-m'ji-ah? You understand, or not understand? 'nuff said.

[straight blast]

wc is one of the most effective one because it is basiclly kickboxing.

Oh my God...my ribs are still aching.

Umm...Cesar...have you actually seen any kickboxing? Or any Wing Chun for that matter? I do both...I've never seen anyone ever mistake the two before.

On the other hand it was nice to see the same old JKD stuff rehashed again. I reckon the 0.001% of JKD people who don't mindlessly quote philosophy might be the ones who actually have "gotten" JKD.

Good luck and thanks for the laugh.

...Kickboxing...Wing Chun...*gasps for breath*...:D :D :D

[TkdWarrior]

Originally posted by Cesar Perez
thanks for posting that quote " knowledge like sex is better when its free" this means that a system must be free free of teqniques which lead no where in street defense why should you folow something hundreds of years old, if u learn to write u are not going to spend all ur life coping stories other people wrote u
are going to want to write ur own which works for u ur own interpretation
oh i used to thought only MMA guys makes good troll(no offence to all but only that section of trolls) anyways...
my above quote doesn't state that it must be free free of techniques it tells u if it's knowledge then it should be free to worthwhile(ponder over it and i hope one day u understand this)
u don't even know the differnce b/w knowledge and information...


the same thing with ma it must be free a punch is only a punch a kick is only a kick. in a fight you dont think what u are going to do u do it. tecniques dont work unless ur as fast as superman that goes for the complicated ones when u train u must have someone attacking back not ust leave their hand out there and wait for u to do the tecnique. i forgot to tell u that i think kung fu is more effective than karate. please stop arguing because no one is ever going to win , im a really good devater won several debates.
who said it's a debate? not me...i don't thinks it's debate and i m not debating u started it and we just put our points accross but i guess it hurts yer ego...sorry for that...
i thought u mugged up TAO OF JKD too much... i guess u didn't understood the essence of JKD,
JKD is much of an attitude than a system (isn't MAT said that so i hate to agree with ppl :D )
punch will always remain a punch and kick will be kick unless n untill u can't make the difference out of that...
wat bruce said about economy of motion, free mind and blah blah blah was not just he all invented it...he had that charisma that can popularise that thought...he had the cinema with him...all those were there before JKD and bruce... but actually ppl at time getting too much shrewd minded.
Ten tigers i think u shouldn't let our secrets out too much... ;)

-TkdWarrior-

[YungChun]

Originally posted by Cesar Perez
why should you folow something hundreds of years old, if u learn to write u are not going to spend all ur life coping stories other people wrote u are going to want to write ur own which works for u ur own interpretation the same thing with ma it must be free a punch is only a punch a kick is only a kick.


Grasshopper:

Like martial arts - language evolved over thousands of years. What began with people grunting and squealing has many millennia later become a fantastic system for all kinds of communication from news to art.

If one wants to be an artist in language - say a poet - would it make sense to create a new language or use one that exists? Indeed starting over with a new language would be very challenging when trying to express poetry or in this case express your opinion here on this board in your new language.

JKD is, like it or not Bruce Lee's final expression of Wing Chun. JKD is the highest level of WC (Intercepting Fist) literally is Wing Chun - at least according to most of the Grand Masters of the system. According to Dan Inosanto Bruce, who wanted to be the best, could only go so far on his half a cup of Wing Chun. He needed to fill the gaps and so the best way he felt to do this was to use no way as way and hence all/any way as way. Whether or not this would have got him to the level he had hoped (better than his seniors) will never be known. Wing Chun is very effective in real situations simply because it is brutally efficient and direct – as is a good sentence written in a real language - no superman required.

[Ars vitae]

Well spoken YungChun. When I initially read the post, I thought he was merely trolling, but as I read further along I saw that he was actually serious in what he had written. It's quite important that one learns to empty their cup, expecially if you are just beginning. Once that is accomplished you are to then attempt to fill it, then saviour what it has to offer, not quickly or you shall become burned by it, but over time find the balance before it grows cold, then your cup maybe empty once more.
At this point if you continue to dismiss everything, you are not able to fill your cup, to gain in skill if you will and learn the different flavours that martial arts have to offer. Do not contiunually empty your cup, there by depriving yourself of sustanence.