Analyze this:Fluid shock wave (striking principle?)

[Former castleva]

Took this from a website:
A strike should be delivered so that target is hit and weapon remains on the impact site for at least tenth of a second.This
imparts all of the kinetic energy of the strike into the target area, producinga fluid shock wave that travels into the affected tissue and causes maximumdamage. It is imperative that all strikes to vital points and nerve motor points aredelivered with this principle in mind. The memory aid is, "Hit and stick".

From "medium range combatives" http://www.ycgroup.com/terrorism/combat1.pdf.

On hand to hand combat.

[MightyB]

And, while thinking 'bout this, you get your arse handed to ya. Wing Chunners and Mantis fighters would love you for sticking out a "bridge" for them to cross. It'd make the job so much easier.

[Chang Style Novice]

Well, a tenth of a second is barely any time at all. I'd say most solid strikes keep contact about that long. I have, of course, absolutely no evidence to back this up.

[MightyB]

I can agree with that Chang.

Still, it doesn't take long for a WCer or Mantis Player to feel a bridge.

[CD Lee]

Speaking of which, if a good player gets inside and is able to deliver a hard blow that goes hard into the target with penetration, I think that in itself will cause enough damage to keep from getting bridged on your arm in that split second right?

I am thinking of the specific application of Hsing-I, which does not jerk it's fists back but explodes inside and expands. Thoughts?

[Former castleva]

Thanks for the replies.
Yes,it sounds a bit weird in a way or another,it would be actually a bit hard to strike so fast that you would not touch the target for that time before drawing your hand back...?
Sticking like that is basically against common principles,stay there and get your limb trapped,then get "shot".
There are some exceptions though,I think,as in palm heel to chin (as used for knock-out,takedown,neck jarring) you have to keep the hand there to be able to push forwards and get the effect.
Maybe the principle of "striking trough the target" to maximize the effect would do that? Could take the same amount of time.

[MightyB]

CD,

You're talking about a type of power that generates from the root and penitrates through the opponent. Yes, that would be a hit and stick, and yes, that would be tough to bridge. "Use soft to defeat hard"--- in that instance, a player doesn't bridge by stopping the force of the attack, they would blend with it or redirect the energy away from themselves, and, with luck, off balance the opponent enough for a counter attack. Once the energy is dissapated, the bridge can be made, and, if the attacker chooses to ignore the bridge, they are in serious trouble because they can't move without the other feeling their intentions.

I'm going out on a limb here (get it, it's a pun-- anyways), but the mindset of the hsing yi player isn't so much a hit and stick as it is a drive through the opponent. The energy is very much alive and is in constant motion. A "hit and stick" as described in the initial post is more of a dead energy. It's a strike/stop/withdraw for another strike. No matter how fast it's executed, it's still a go-stop-go mentality. A hsing yi attack is more like a skill saw or a drill in that the energy is constantly in motion.

Any thoughts?

[KC Elbows]

The style I practice uses the same type strike as hsing yi(it's descended from hsing yi), and that definitely holds true for us, especially as far as blows to the dan tien.

While it is true that by allowing it to stick at all, you allow the chance for a bridge, a bridge in and of itself is not necessarily an advantage. First off, you have just driven home a full strike, so the bridge is small loss for actually damaging your opponent. Second, the bridge is to a hand that just struck, whereas the most likely next attack is with the other hand that did not strike yet.

Plus, bridging is only an advantage if you have better contact skills than your opponent. On its own, it's just a bridge, and a bridge never hurt no one much. And who's gonna have steadier(and thus, more controlled) contact, the person who just punched, or the person who just got full on punched?(as you wouldn't stick if you missed)

I just tend to think of the bridge as a consequence of range, and not an attack in and of itself, though it can be used as part of an attack.

[CD Lee]

MightyB - Your description is spot on. I have to say that I agree with your descriptions completely of Hsing-I and the type of energy going on. It is most definately not a start-stop-reload-go-reload-go type of energy. It is a constant ball of motion and energy. This is why the initial post made me think of pulling back my strike, which to me is foreign at this point in my mind, although at one time, is exactly what I would have done and had done before.

KCElbows - good descriptions. I have taken a few very good stomach shots before, and I can tell you, everything stops for a few seconds and hurts like a spreading wildfire inside your body. Of course breathing is next to impossible for about three seconds too. I could not imagine pulling off a technical move smoothly if a guy got inside my gate and delivered a deep hard body shot!

[[Censored]]

Go ask a martial artist about advanced physics.
Then go ask Stephen Hawking about fighting techniques.

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by [Censored]
Then go ask Stephen Hawking about fighting techniques.

Well, maybe if his opponent was at the bottom of a steep hill....

[yenhoi]

Agreed with censored.

Sounds like someone was impressed by some advanced physics and has decided to attempt to dumb it down into simple 1 line explanation of a hard, sound hit. Unfortunatly, you cannot break things down like that, as others on this forum have said: all things are not equal.

These types of mechanics and physics can hardly be summarized in short sentances and taught in 2 hour (or even 4 hour) seminars. Although MightyB and KC did pretty good jobs. My point is that to get the kind of strikes described takes much practice and actual expierence.

[Former castleva]

hmm
Thanks for the thought provoking replies.

[azwingchun]

There is another term used in some Wing Chun schools, which I believe would be reffering to the same principle, it is called sub-hydro shock.;)

[KC Elbows]

Is sub hydro shock therapy what is used when one lineage captures a member of the other lineage?

INTERROGATOR: You will spell it with a "T".

SUBJECT: No, never!! It's a "C"!

INTERROGATOR: Assistant!

ASSISTANT[WALKS IN WITH EXTREME DRAGON BACK]: Yes master?

INTERROGATOR: Begin the sub hydro shock therapy.

[azwingchun]

Hmmmn......could be.....LOL

[azwingchun]

We also sometimes use it when trying to get someone to agree on the history of Wing Chun.;)

[old jong]

...Or on forward pressure!....;)