forms for demo/real

[TjD]

a little peeve about people *****ing about sifu X's form that they watched in video so & so:

in think theres a big difference as to how a form is demonstrated to people who are learning, as opposed to a form practiced in ones home. when i demo chum kiu to a new student, there are a few (if not a lot) of mechanics that are intentionally left out, so that they dont start doing really weird stuff with their form :) i think a lot of the time when a form is demo'd, they may look "poor" because its been simpled down for a learning audience, so they can work the basic ideas before throwing more mechanincs on top of them

i think a lot of those demo forms are out there not as a proof of "heres how **** good my wing chun is" but a "heres the basic idea for you to learn"


ranf off :)

[Atleastimnotyou]

This is the first time i've heard of this modifying the forms for new people. I have seen students do some weird stuff when they began to learn a certain set like you talked about though. but instead of watering the form down so they get it, i think the best thing to do is to constently correct them when they make a mistake. Dont comprimise wing chun for the student. Then they're not really doing wing chun. Have faith in your students and your teaching, they will get better over time.

[David Jamieson]

Form at times must be modified for the learner until such time as tendons strengthen and flexibility is gained. Form is iterative in nature when practiced.

The forms of Wing Chun do not require acrobatics or maximum flexibility and therefore it is likely that you don't need to modify them.

Wing Chun was made simple for a reason, so that anyone could learn it and use it quickly in a short period of time. It is derived from Shaolin Kung Fu as are many styles from the southern traditions.

Many Wing Chun masters have also studied other arts and keep the wing chun for it's clean lines and simplicity. It is a great starting style for anyone and it's a good one to keep with you your whole life. But keep it real.

peace

[yuanfen]

(No likelihood of deep differences but some comments on impressions.))

Form at times must be modified for the learner until such time as tendons strengthen and flexibility is gained. Form is iterative in nature when practiced.

(True))

The forms of Wing Chun do not require acrobatics or maximum flexibility and therefore it is likely that you don't need to modify them.

((The right kind of flexibility is very much required.
Wing chun is not a showy system-its all in the depth of details.
For show- people jazz it up- so long as that is understood- no problem))

Wing Chun was made simple for a reason, so that anyone could learn it and use it quickly in a short period of time.

((One of the reasons for "adaptation""...buit takes a long time of right practice to get it right))

It is derived from Shaolin Kung Fu as are many styles from the southern traditions.

((That doesnt tell us too much- yes and no))

Many Wing Chun masters have also studied other arts and keep the wing chun for it's clean lines and simplicity. It is a great starting style for anyone and it's a good one to keep with you your whole life. But keep it real.

((Starting style?Its much more than that. The simplicity is deceptive))

[old jong]

Hello Kung Lek!
I agree with you that the basics of Wing Chun can be learned quickly but it is not anyone who could use it effectively in a short time.It is always relative to many factors in training regimen and in simple natural physical skills and attribute.

I also would not think about Wing Chun as an ''starting'' style!....It is not some kind of ''nursery school'' to other real styles of Kung Fu!...It is as real as it gets!....:cool:

[TjD]

i also disagree with wing chun being "simple"

i would say a lot of emphasis is placed on "simple" things, so that one can perfect them :) while wing chun may not need flexibility, you definately need to know how to root while stationary (SLT) and this can take a long time to learn. the structure while being relaxed is just as hard to gain as flexibility. this is one example of something that the forms need to be simplified for, for the beginner.

if one runs around showing beginners how you practice chum kiu after learning biu jee, they'll miss out on a lot of the mechanics chum kiu has to teach, and replace them with some of the more visible biu jee mechanics. instead of building those mechanics on top of the stable foundation they made with chum kiu.

the three forms are a progression. one needs to learn SLT before chum kiu, and chum kiu before biu jee. however after learning chum kiu, one can add it to the foundation they got in SLT, and after learning biu jee one can add it to their chum kiu. the form may look a little different, but in the end be more "correct" for that person.

should beginners be shown the modified version? i dont think so, because the beginner would be missing out on the intricacies of the previous forms, and the intricacies of applying the later ones to the earlier ones - a big part of the wing chun learning process