wing chun vs the adrenaline monster...

[bougeac]

hi everyone,
just wondering if anyone considers the effects of adrenaline/stress on the execution of their techniques in a real situation. i read an interesting book by a guy who is very well known here in the uk (peter consterdine) and is one of the founders of the British Combat Association (an organisation who are very pro reality based training). in it, he talks (at some length and detail) about the effects of adrenaline on "fine tuned motor skills" : he himself has trained in wing chun and is of the opinion that because the art tends to lean towards "fine" rather than "gross motor skills" (which tends to be what youre left with in a real fight)that consequently, a fair amount of the techniques you can normally pull off in the kwoon simply wont happen.

he doesnt dismiss wing chun as an inneffective art (he actually uses / has used elements from it successfully in real encounters), but is just pointing out what generally happens when the **** hit's the fan.

im not trying to be provocative here, im just interested to see if
this particular aspect of combat is ever considered in your training.

one of my teachers used to get us to do a "stress drill" to try to recreate the effects of adrenaline on our motor skills , by getting us first physically exhausted THEN making us try to use wing chun
against random attacks, i found that my arms felt like lead weights and only the SIMPLEST motions had any chance...

i should point out that peter doesnt cite just wing chun as being affected by adrenal dump but by ANY art that has an element of sophistication in it.

[old jong]

Well,it depends on the person!...Whatever the martial art,how fear/anger is managed is very important.
You could be a chi sau monster in the kwoon or the sparring king of your M.A. club but you could very much desintegrate psychologicaly in front of a sudden attack or even verbal menaces.
How could someone with legs shaking,no voice,short breath and liquid arms could use even the best of techniques?...:eek:

As my friend Matrix once said '' Your mileage may vary!''
;)

[Atleastimnotyou]

If you train long enough and totaly give yourself over to wing chun, then wing chun will be your natural reaction. So when the crud hits the fan, you will react with wing chun. adrenalene will make you sloppier than what you idealy want, but the more you train, the less sloppy you'll be.

[old jong]

This is what everybody's hoping for in such a case. It will happen for some and not for others.That's life!...Your Wing Chun gives you something,you give the other 50%
Again, it depends on the person.Normally good training should provide ingrained reactions like you say Atleastimnotyou!

[hunt1]

The single most important factor in the outcome of a fight is not skill,not time training,not even conditioning. It is the mind. The person most prepared mentally.The person that remains calmest and trusts his ablities has the decided advantage and will win out most of the time.

This Is the reason some of the best fighters in the real world are untrained street fighters. They are often,through experience ,the best prepared mentally for the fight. Hence they feel less stress and fear.

Wing Chun works just fine on the street if you truly trust it and have trained enough to remain calm.

[bougeac]

"How could someone with legs shaking,no voice,short breath and liquid arms could use even the best of techniques?...

old jong , i like your observation!!, ive had that horrible leg shaking/liquid arms sensation and its not nice!!

however, like you other guys, i fully believe in wing chun and feel
that if you stick to its principles and basics that it should certainly help in a fight.

one of my sihings has a good saying regarding this "aim for 100% quality technique and form when training in order to get 50% or less in a real situation...".

[Wilson]

Hunt1 hit the nail on the head. You need to be able to train your mind to remain calm. This is where meditation in the martial arts comes in. If you can train your mind to remain focused, you will have a much easier time remaining calm, and thus using your techniques effectively.

[gnugear]

I need to train constantly ... if I skip only a couple of days, I'll get that adrenaline rush and get "flinchy" :(

My precision usually goes out the window for an hour or two until I settle back in. I wish the calmness was more of a permanent thing.

[desertwingchun2]

If I may I would like to offer my personal experience with the adrenaline monster.

As a youth daily violence was just part of the norm. I grew up in East LA and everyone was either a gangster, wanted to be a gangster or was related to a gangster.I was the latter and everyone seemed to have a beef with my brother who was and is a gangster. Needless to say scrapping was pretty common. In those days my fights wouldnt last but a couple of seconds (once they got started) and the adrenaline monster wouldn't appear until after the guy or guys were knocked out or running.

I've been living in Az for about nine years now, training WC for about 1 1/2 years and have been far removed from that type of environment for a while now.(thankfully)

I found it very interesting though, that in my only physical confrontation since training wing chun i got the wired up feeling big time!!! It happened at the onset - right out the gate. Luckily this guy didnt recognize my emotion and stayed outside my range just long enough for me to tell myself to relax. I settled into my jong sao and he entered the correct range and this one was over quicker than any of my previous engagements.

So even to someone accustomed to physical violence adrenaline will play big time in a real situation. If I my offer advice it would be try to train for those surprise moments by actually experiencing them. Preferibly with a sihing or close friend.

-David

[aelward]

Actually, studies have shown that muscle memory increases if you practice when jacked up on adrenaline. Therefore, you have all these self defense courses which get you jacked up on your own adrenals to "bring out the beast" in you.

The downside: the tendency to react to all stressful situations (be it at work, on the road, etc) with a release of your adrenaline that jacks you up into the monster. And, by the time you are 40, adrenal exhaustion and a need for cortisone pills (NOT good in the long run)

-jk

[YungChun]

Stress Training is good - no question. People can look into Bullet-men Seminars to test out their glands as well!

Having said that. The very nature of Wing Chun - it's simplicity, directness, sensitivity training - (like to see guys like Siddle and Laur test the nature of Chi-Sao training under the 'dump.' ) Sensitivity training aids the WC fighter immeasurably allowing students to feel threats and not rely on vision under the stress of the dump.

Wing Chun's directness also aids in avoiding the adrenaline monster because of the tendency of the Wing Chun student to attack first with the mostest and ask questions later before thinking too much and letting fear take hold.

Another relevant factor I have found is that many WC people are taught that Wing Chun is a superior system - the very story of its founding drills this into many students, 'Wing Chun is the best!' Whether or not you agree with this statement - there are many Wing Chun people who do, and for them it does tend to aid their belief in themselves and confidence in their system - hence they can be more relaxed and focused in combat. Those who 'believe' tend to have much lower stress levels and lose less motor skill. Having said that - my Sifu advised, "When you fight - your Kung-Fu gets a 50% discount - so make your Kung-Fu good!"

[aelward]

Yong Chun signs:
> Ving Tsun Kung Fu: Strong Enough for a man, but made for a
> woman...

LOL, that's from those old deodorant commercials... who came up with this? I'm going to start using it, and want to recognize the creator :P