Kung Fu or Tae Kwon Do? Need advice

[nicolas_pujol]

Hi guys,

I'm a 26 year old guy, 6'2 for 175lbs, and am about to start practicing martial arts again. I did one year of Quan Ki Do 10 years ago... long ago. I need some advice on which martial art would be better (Tae Kwon Do or Kung Fu), given my goals.

My goals are:
1 - improving my physical condition (I'm a mountain biker and have strong legs and cardio vascular system yet I feel weak abdos / arms)
2 - being able to use my martial arts skills in a street fight or any human attack. The one thing I like about Tae Kwon Do is the fact that they use feet a lot, which can be helpful against an attacker with a knife. Yet, Tae Kwon Do seems to focus on more on "pre-arranged" fights vs. reality.
3 - improving spiritual condition, ie working on Chi and energy.

What do you guys recommend? I need advice!
Thanks in advance,
Nick

[yenhoi]

1) pushups & situps

2) self-defense has little to do with what art you study 5 hours a week. If you want to learn about adrenaline, goto a self-defense seminar, probably cost you a couple bills and a couple hours. If you want to learn about knifes, find a kali instructor and pay him a couple bills to tell you that you will probably be cut, and most likely die were you to engage a knife-wielding attacker, regardless of your skill or his skill. Funny you mention legs vs knifes, if you get cut on your inside thigh, you die.

3) you will probably get inferior spiritual teaching if you goto a large class - commercialized school. If you really want results you must find a teacher you 'click' with and hang out alot. Alternatively, smoke pot and take up hippie tai chi.

Looking for a (social) martial art? Shop around and find the school/teacher that feels the best. Style is of little importance, find a place you will be enthusiastic about, and go there.

[Budokan]

Goal #3 is the tie-breaker. KF will help you with that more than TKD.

[Drake]

For upper body building, I suggest not just regular pushups, but also close hand pushups, and buy a pushup bar. Lifting weights is also very good for muscle endurance, as long as you do large sets with lower weights. Pullups and dips also work great.
As for abs, it may seem hokey, but the Abflex actually works. Also buy a situp bar, as they make situps a whole heck of a lot easier than lodging your feet under the couch. Also, supine bicycles, crunches, and obliques work very well.


Drake~

[Stacey]

after my first week of 8 step, I choked out a tkd blackbelt that came to challenge the school.

Since then, its just been getting easier.


I have respect for tkd people in general...they are nice. High level people have excellent continuous kicking, but for the most part, its not the best MA.


If you understand counter kicking, its no problem...once you understand trapping, you know more than your average tkd blackbelt.

if you know a little shuai chiao..no contest. Their throws and joint locks are second rate.

there are good tkd guys in Korea, but for the most part its not practical....flexebility is the first thing to go, tight pants or slippery shoes...or being on the subway makes kicking a no no. Kicking has its place, but if thats all you can do.......


They have no concept of power generation beyond leaning and moving the hips. I've used kung fu kicking to outkick them. I've used tai chi to absorb the extention and walk forward and they fall down. Maybe its the way most people practice.

[yenhoi]

Pushup bar, situp bar, and Abflex.....

sounds like alot of money and equipment for some simple bodyweight exercises....... if you need these things to exercise, then you dont need to exercise, you need to balance your checkbook.

[Drake]

Pushup bars... $8.... Situp bar... $8... Abflex...$30.
All the pushups bars are is two metal bars with foam where you place your hands... helps you break the plane when you go down. Situps bars are similar, only they clamp onto a door, and are angled so that your feet don't go everywhere. The Abflex is optional, but it works very well, and quite worth the $30.

$46 total... I'd hardly call that a tremendous sum of money, especially for the benefits.


Drake~

[TaoBoy]

KUNG FU.

[yenhoi]

Total cost: $46 (not alot of doh!) Total benefit: none? (Although the pushup bar sounds pretty neat.)

Kung-fu is one word silly taoboy...

[Drake]

What do you mean by no benefit?

Pushup bars, for one, increased my physical fitness test score by nearly 20 points in the pushup event.

My situp bar is wonderful, since I can now do situps without having to constantly reposition myself. That is, unless you have someone who will hold your feet on command every time you feel like knocking out a set.

And the Abflex, or any other direct resistance device, works wonders for abs. It's the equivilant of medicine ball training.

Drake~

[gazza99]

1. I would say TKD has little to zero Qi development, and very little self-defense applicability in my experience with various TKD instructors and black belts. It is however a good sport..........

2. For a workout that is up to the school, not really the art, but qi development and muscular development should not be done at the same time as internal work, as tension impedes Qi flow and cultivation.

3. Therefore as many have suggested, get a good work out plan, and do a martial art. Stance work in the KF may take the place of some leg work. Or if you have a series of explosive movements after being in KF for awhile you may get somewhat of an aerobic workout as well.

regards,
Gary

[Royal Dragon]

Forget all that stuff, for free you can do

12 push ups,
12 cruchies,
12 pull ups

do this cycle 3 times.

If you don't have anyting tall enough to do pull ups on, you can fill abook bag with books, or a pillow case, and then do arm curles with them.

For cardio, you can run, or practice simple front snap kicks.

For flexibility, you can follow along to that Yoga Chicks Cable show.

See, the above can get you in damm good shape, and it's all free!!! :D

[yenhoi]

Those benefits probably have more to do with your new-found-willingnesss to do the exercise, then in actually doing the excercise.

Of course, Im sure there is some actual minor benefit. Im not even sure what an abflex is. In general, Machines and gizmos offer very little actual physical performance based benefit, other then increased enthusiasm.

[rogue]

Skip kung fu and TKD. In regards to items 1 and 2 take up boxing, kickboxing, JKD or San Shou. They'll give you a better all around workout than most traditional kung fu schools and be more practical than the majority of TKD schools. You'll also have better street skills in a shorter period of time.

In regards to 3, take up yoga or find a tai chi school that caters to that.


The one thing I like about Tae Kwon Do is the fact that they use feet a lot, which can be helpful against an attacker with a knife. The best use of legs in a knife fight is to run your a$$ off.

[Drake]

Newfound? Ok... since I have landed in Presumptuous Central here, first let me clarify that I have been in the Army for nearly 4 years now, and conduct physical training nearly daily. I was in excellent shape before I joined, and in even better shape now.
"Gizmos" and the like are people's attempts at making things easier for you to get the most out of a particular exercise.
It is flat out wrong to say something doesn't work simply because it seems unusual or contrary to your method. Pushup bars, by simple logic, are excellent tools, unless you'd rather skip using this "gizmo" and dig yourself a crevice around where you'd like to do the pushups to give you more clearance on your way down.
A situps bar, another simple "gizmo" can easily be rid of, I suppose, by super-glueing your feet to the floor in order to ensure that they stay put.
And I also imagine that rather than using that crazy Abflex thing, you could always just put medicine balls (which are comparably priced) on a ramp... run down to the end of the ramp, lay down, and let them fall on your abdomen. Repeat roughly 40-50 times.
Running is one of those things I am against using any sort of gadgetry with. Treadmills aren't nearly as efficient as hitting the hardball and running a few miles.
Next time, before you haul off and assume I am some couch potato that recently found exercise through the use of machina and gimmicks, at least make an effort to know something about the person you are criticizing.

Drake~

[Royal Dragon]

Drake,
I think the point is that you don't need gizmo's to get in shape. Only will power and determination.

[Drake]

I totally agree that you don't NEED gizmos to get into shape, but to say they aren't helpful is downright silly. If you read my post thoroughly, you'd see that I gave many examples of "non-gizmo" exercises as well.
It's just my opinion that $46 isn't much money, and the items are helpful, will speed progression and enhance form.


Drake~

[LEGEND]

Agree with ROGUE...

[Royal Dragon]

I never said Gizmo's were silly?
I have some neat ones,
A bench and wieght set
Wrist and Ankle weights,
An asortment of rocks, and bricks I found in a parking lot and Creek bed.
Some Eveian water bottles,
A canvas bag of Mung Beans,
A concrete foundational test cylinder I found laying around at a construction site.

An assortment of Kung fu weapon's.

A tree

A tree that fell down that crosses over the creek I found some of my rocks in.

An obstical course in the local forest preserve.


Some more rocks, but I haven't used them for anything yet. they are actually my favorite tools as they are 300 million years old and very heavy, about 30-80 pounds each, and are full of fossiles. I mined them myself out of a road cut I found in uttica Ill.
When I'm strong enough, I plan to hugh them wile I do one arm pushups
:D

[nicolas_pujol]

Thanks all for the initial replies. What are JKD and San Shou? Also, I remember hearing about a new "martial combat" a few years ago, called... ultimate fighting? Is that what it's called? It is essentially a no-rule competition where participants from all disciplines face each other in a tournament. I am wondering which specialty won that...

Thanks again,
Nick

[gazza99]

I give Nick's post a 6 of 10 troll rating, it would seem anyone who could find KFO on the web should be able to use yahoo, google, etc.. to find "JKD".

Like I said, 6 out of a 10 possible trolls.

Gary

Ps: To give Nick the benifit of the doubt: Look up JKD and San Shou on the web yourself, you knew enough to ask the question, so find it yourself. The "Ultimate fighting" is actually a sporting event with rules (UFC), developed by grapplers to promote their sport/art , and the participants as far as I have seen are 99% grappler/shootfighter/boxer type, hardly an all style or "no rule" event from the tapes Ive seen.

Gary

[TaoBoy]

Originally posted by yenhoi
Kung-fu is one word silly taoboy...

Oh no...my whole existance has been turned upside-down.
I've been misled all this time.

:D

[SevenStar]

"If you don't have anyting tall enough to do pull ups on, you can fill abook bag with books, or a pillow case, and then do arm curles with them."

the main benefit of the pull up is back, lats and shoulders. biceps are involed minutely as they are pulling muscles, but I wouldn't substitute curls for pullups. My suggestion would be to do handstand push ups.

[Royal Dragon]

Handstand pushups would be more shoulder and pecks??

I'd use curles, and bent over rows to better aproximate them myself. I probably should have mentioned bent over rows before.

[KnightSabre]

Are those the only 2 styles you are interested in?

What about BJJ? ;)

[eulerfan]

Look, here's how I ended up in KF.

I went to some TKD classes and didn't really enjoy them. Then I found the KF class and went to some of those. The teacher was great and I liked the people there and the atmosphere. So I stayed.

Really, for you to get good at anything you have to keep doing it for a long period of time.

So, I would propose that the most important thing to look for is something that you think will maintain your interest. A place you want to return to.

Honestly, think about it. Even if KF is technically *better* than TKD, that's irrelevant if KF fails to hold your attention. If TKD can better ignite a passion in you, that's what you should study. If that is the case, TKD will make YOU a better fighter than KF will.

Get out there and audition classes.

[yenhoi]

Sorry Drake. :rolleyes:

I think this person should do some pushups and find a school.

[Drake]

Pushups are good for you! :D


Drake~

[Former castleva]

Hi nicolas.

If skipping all unrelated stuff which has been released in this thread (not to say it would not be beneficial)
I´d say think,think,try both if possible taking a class or two to get some feeling out of it.
TKD is not respected very highly by many people,which does not mean it would be bad,necessarily (reason for that might be found from various bad schools outside Korea,but that is not TKD at it´s best) it´s self-defense potential has been questioned too but I guess it´s up to what you make of it if you take it.If you´are able to find a military TKD school which are said to train hard and be geared towards practicality,not sport,that might be your pick.
Besides that,you could still get a great work-out if circumstances allow,considering that there is such a great emphasis on sport (Olympic TKD)

Kung-fu is a system so big,with countless branches (about thousand styles,remembering that many styles have variations) that it´s hard to exactly say it straight as what you´ll be getting.
But at it´s best kung-fu can be very well-rounded art promoting good lifestyle,rich with tradition and when it comes to internal power...definitely your choise (Remember that styles vary from harder to soft,internal to external,where approach is different)

Besides anything else,ask yourself what you really are after and let the answer arrive sincerely.

And oh yes,keep searching more,there´s always something out there if you change your mind.

[MightyB]

Dragon Ball Jujitsu

[Felipe Bido]

Where are you located, Nicolas?

[nicolas_pujol]

I am in Austin Texas. The more I read, the further I tend to go from Tae Kwon Do... I did attend a first session and it was honestly good physical exercise. However, I found the techniques questionable - I also learned on this thread that legs aren't as good of a weapon as I had thought. Interesting.

Some of you are suggesting Ju Jitsu, classical or Brazilian, maybe Judo or just kickboxing. I also went to the UFC website, and while I don't know a whole lot about it, I was amazed to see that most fighters there come from grappling martial arts. I was indeed expecting guys from TKD to be everywhere... but, none.

The other thing (I posted a separate post yesterday on that) is that I'll be looking for a good school with good people... it definitely will influence my decision. Any suggestion is welcome if you're in the area.

Nick

[rogue]

Nick, I've run across many ITF TKD people who are kickboxers. Some have dropped the TKD name because of the many questionable schools around or to differentiate themselves from the Olympic and WTF kwans. Legs are a great weapon but you have to know how and when to use them. Legs as a weapon range from a flashy kick to an opponents head to the humble but effective stepping on a guys foot.

[nicolas_pujol]

Well, after reading a lot about the different martial arts, starting with Kung Fu, then looking at Tae Kwon Do, then Kick boxing, then grappling arts such as Ju Jitsu and Judo... I think I made the right decision: I chose... Kung Fu!! and registered yesterday at a local school.

Here is the take-away from my research:
* Need to choose a martial art to which I will stick to. Seeing how hard grappling martial arts or kick boxing can get, I don't see myself doing this in 50 years. Kung Fu, I can see this. That I think, with the fact that it is a balanced (healthy) martial art, was the motivating factor. The following 2 criterias really helped me decide also...

* Need to have depth in the art: Tae Kwon Do focuses too heavily on feet and does not seem to have the depth of Kung Fu in terms of learning path.

* Need a school with good people. So far so good, I will keep you posted as time goes.

Of course, this is only my experience. Some people may choose other martial arts depending on their needs. It was really a hard decision to make, and it took me several weeks looking at a range of interesting martial arts.

I hope newbies like me reading this thread will find the information useful. Thanks again to you all for your feedback and insights.

Nick.

[African Tiger]

There's a reaon why most of us here diss Tae Kwon Do, calling it by such names as TaKe your Dough and Tae Kwon Don't.

Take the all-encompassing art - kung fu. Giving a chick an acupressure massage (which you will learn in with a GOOD kung fu instructor) will most likely get you "some."

Showing a chick a worthless flying kick will more likely get you laughed at, when you land incorrectly and bust your natural ass......

[rogue]

I chose... Kung Fu!! and registered yesterday at a local school. Then get your money back. That is if they're telling you they just do kung fu. What style is the school?

Good for you Nick but make sure the school is legit.

[future man]

Hey Nick. That's great. What school are you attending?

[nicolas_pujol]

I am still learning about the different forms of Kung Fu... my school teaches Shaolin Kung Fu. If you are in the Austin area and need more detail, send me a private message and I'll tell you more about it. Thanks.

[YungChun]

Originally posted by nicolas_pujol
I am still learning about the different forms of Kung Fu... my school teaches Shaolin Kung Fu. If you are in the Austin area and need more detail, send me a private message and I'll tell you more about it. Thanks.

Can you post a link? Hope they don't all wear a 'gi', have colored belts and break boards too often.