Frank, let us sees things in perspective.

[extrajoseph]

Let us look at some dates, Frank. According to Cho Kwong-Yuan, whose father was a student of Chan Ngou-Sing (Cheung Ah-Yim’s disciple in Futshan), Cheung was born in 1824, he started to study with Chan Heung at the age of 12 (1836). Chan Heung was born in 1806, so he would be 30 when Cheung was only 12. Cheung studied with Chan for 5 years before he first assisted Chan Heung, then set up his own school in Futshan in 1851 at the age 27. You said he died in an ambush at the age of 33 (1857), so he had an active teaching life of only 6 years on his own in Futshan. Whereas Chan Heung died in 1875 at the age of 70, he had over 40 years of active teaching life all over Guangdong and SE Asia, not counting more than 20 years studying with his 3 teachers. The other thing you need to bear in mind is that Cheung did not have any off-springs that carried on his tradition, whereas Chan had the whole Chan clan and 5 generations of non-stop development of the art within the family. From these figures, you can draw your own conclusion. Mind you, I am not trying to undervalue the contribution made by Cheung. He was a genius and he found a very important branch of CLF. I only want you to see things in perspective between Cheung and his teacher Chan.

Joseph

[iron_silk]

wow...hard factual numbers (well as factual as you are going to get over the forum) this is very nice.

good going Joseph...how we're getting somewhere

[iron_silk]

Dates are kind of neat...i just wanna refer to something i read if ya don't mind.

CLF was formally established in 1836
Since 1850 Tai Ping Tien Kuo kingdom ruled which succumbed in 1864 (someone mention this earlier?)

1967 Jeong Yim reopen a school orginally by Chan Din Yao and Chan Din Fune

But here is the final note from the book.

IN 1979 all of the CLF schools greed to unite as one system under the name Choy Lay Fut and that Hung Sing and Bak Sing was to identify the origins of the particular branch.

[yik-wah-tik]

joseph,

hey thanks for the history lesson. but the information you pointed on has long been recorded in my book. i have known about that for many years now. i appreciate your approach towards me, because you seem to assume what i know or what i don't know.

so far i have not even began to tell the history as i have it. not even a glimpse to what i know.
although i don't not claim to know everything, i am still learning, but have decent knowledge. and the one thing i get respect from the hung sing elders for is my desire to know our history. i know the chan history so much so without being a actual member, and i know the buk sing story.

not all historians agree, but since i have done my research, corresponded with elders such as lun chee, and thru other avenues to gather more information, having put this information into some type of format and have conferred with many others and while i am spreading our history as the hung sing people know it, makes me my schools historian. who know, maybe i will pursue an honorary title from the fut san headquarters as a historian.

you claim you can be my sigung, but you can only be my si-sook at best. i have only two sigungs now, one is professor jew leong and sigung ho cheurng.

if you are from tong sek's lineage then why were you not in futsan for the celebration. from what i understand it was his school they found and had our hung sing celebration?

joseph, stop making your silly claims about me and that you can be my sigung. yes you are old, and i will respect you for your age and time in clf if i can prove who you are. on this forum you can be in reality an old bitter woman out for revenge against a choy lee fut master that shunned her.

joseph do you know what i know? so why are you running off at the mouth? you have no clue on how much i know. but i'll let you tell it.

fran

"graceful staff flies above like a dragon wiggling it's tail-strong fist releases out like a tiger raising its head

[extrajoseph]

One thing is very clear, CLF was well established by Chan Heung long before Cheung Ah-Yim completed his training and apprentiship. Frank in his misguided enthusiasm and ignorance tried to tell us otherwise. As much as Frank likes to believe that Cheung Ah-Yim co-found CLF with Chan Heung, it is simply not true in reality.

Joseph

[yik-wah-tik]

joseph,

hey more and more everyday the hung sing people are beginning to speak up about our version of the history. if i were you i'd stop trying to fight the inevitable, because our story will come out publicly and regardless of our place in the tree it cannot be forgotten hung sing (great victory) is the most famous of the clf branches. hung sing (great victory) has long become synonymous with choy lee fut.

i am sorry joseph, but the hung sing story is being released really soon. try not to let it get you too hot under the collar.

peace uncle,
(isn't it funny how we all have some type of delirious uncle's?)
frank

"graceful staff flies above like a dragon wiggling it's tail-strong fist releases out like a tiger raising its head :D

[extrajoseph]

I studied with Tong Shek when I was a kid and you know why I did not go to Futshan even though I was invited? It was organized by the Futshan Cultural Department to promote tourism. They are only using the CLF name. As you may know, they have a similar setup for Wong Fei-Hung and Wing Chun. Every year there are 2 or 3 "promotions" like the one you went to.

As for the pending release of the Great Victory Hung Sing story, I look forward with anticipation on how history can be rewritten. I am sure they will do as good a job as you did.

You are just a kid, Frank, there is a whole world out there for you to see and experience. Keep you eyes and ears open, things are not what they seem to be on the surface. I had a Futshan girlfriend once.... :-)

My best wishes,
Joseph