How do you train your Kung Fu?

[james hfyofAZ]

Hello fellow Wing Chun brothers,
How do you train your Kung Fu? First of all state your lineage so we know what style or system you train. By this question I don't just mean what drills do you train, but how do you train your self? Remember Kung Fu is a way of life. I feel that when I train at school I do one of two thing focus on my mental out look of the training or the physical side of it. But for the most part my Kung Fu happens out side the school. I seem to always be focused on some part of my self Identity and how do I increase the development of the heart of a tiger and the wisdom of the dragon. How well does the knowledge of your mouth get expressed through the hands? What do you primarily focus on thru out your Kung Fu lives? How well do you express it in the way you present yourself? Not to be harsh but some people have ego problems they need to get over. I some times catch my self being a big A$$. I think that's the MAN jean coming out. Do you carry your self in a manor that well represents Kung Fu? Or is it more a pompous A$$. You know those guys "I'm Bad". But seriously, I really want to know how hard do you train all aspects of Kung Fu?:D

[gnugear]

I practice my stance while riding up and down in the elevator at work.

[OdderMensch]

i try to always remain mindful of what I am doing. If I am doing pak da, I just do pak da. I try not to think about the last drill, or watch what my Sihing are practicing. While repitition is invaluable to training I try to avoid getting "mechanical" in my practice.

I have always been dimly aware of the "mind-body" connection, but my experience of the last 3 years of traininng has really opened my eyes. Kung Fu for me lies not with the mind nor the body, but with the interplay of the two. Neither science nor art, kung fu is its own beast.

My limited schoolling has still left me with the skills to research on my own. On the side of science i'll check bone and joint types, look at the angles and stuctures involed. Just today I found some of an old textbook detailing musscle types, body stuctures and common sports injurys.

For art, a main focus in my formal schooling, I draw out moves, sequnces, patterns. It helps me to rememer drills and acts as a crude notebook.

as for ego outside of class, I doubt many people think they have an ego problem.

[reneritchie]

Remember Kung Fu is a way of life.

That's the paradigm as espoused by some, but is by no means universal, IMHO. For some it might just be a way of fighting, for others a hobby, for others a form of social interaction, for others a way of battling personal demons (or indulging them, as the case may be). Music may be your way of life, or medicine, or mergers and accuisiton, or your family, or religion, and kung fu might just be a piece of it, even if a treasured one. For some they might feel more noble or more devoted through this concept, for others a balance might feel more appropriate.

Likewise, martial arts teachers often seem to project themselves as (or may simply be perceived as) omni-faceted gurus. Students look to them not only as martial arts teachers, but as role models, as philosophy teachers, as self-defense experts, as personal fitness trainers, as meditation/self-awareness gurus, as nutrion advisors, and as lifestyle coaches. And all to often, martial arts teachers have little or no training in many if not most of these areas.

It's good for people to want to improve themselves, to want to excel in martial arts and in the elements they believe attached to the martial arts, and if the role-model idea works, that's great. But IMHO its vital to remember that these people, even when greatly admired and accomplished, are none the less people, with limits to their knowledge, flaws to their character, and dynamics all their own. Some truly outstanding martial artists are also truly not good people, which is heatbreaking when you're young and eager and have images from Shaw Bros. dancing in your head, but once realized, it can still serve as an example, albeit one you wish to avoid becoming rather than aspiring to.

Kung fu is effort, it is work over time. The more work you put in over the more time, the better. When I was younger, at times it seemed MA was all-consuming. Every aspect of my life seemed touched by it. It dominated my thoughts, my movements, my time, perhaps even my life. I try to be more balanced now, to spend time with my octogenarian grandmother and my baby brother, and to put aside distraction while I do (tho its hard).

As to character, I don't really factor MA into that, I factor in morality, ethics, and virtues (which MAists often claim or proclaim but not always exhibit). Most of us know how we'd like to be treated, so I don't think it takes any complex MA systems-map to know we should treat others accordingly.

RR

[pvwingchun]

James

I think that this question goes somewhat to the thread you were involved in the other day concerning mind training. You need to train the mind as much as the body. There is need for both mind and body training. Self defense and self preservation are an enirely different animal than just going to class and training with your buddies, this does not train the mind, which I believe needs to be done outside of class as well as in.

I personally try to apply the principles throughout my life on a daily basis as one form of training outside class as well as doing my forms and working on my dummy as often as possible.

[taltos]

I can't Pak Sau a bad mood, or Chi Gerk with an unexpected Financial Problem, but I CAN face the issue at hand (Doy Yeng), take the most direct, efficient and appropriate action to take care of the problem before it becomes serious (Jeet Kiuh), and make sure that allow myself to recover from the issue after it passes and continue on unharmed (Wui Mah).

Since Wing Chun is a conceptul art, we have the ability to apply those principles accross the board, in all aspects of our life. Whether we are in combat, in a business meeting, or having tea with friends, it never hurts to give the person who is interacting with you your fullest attention (Doy Yeng), etc.

However, we can also say that because Wing Chun is conceptual in nature, those principles are not the sole property of Wing Chun. Principles, by nature, and universal, and are true in more than one specific context. I think (correct me if I'm wrong) that's one of the things Rene was saying... Attentiveness, Sensitivity (as in being able to acertain the amount of effort and avenue of approach required), and Self-Awareness are not things that only apply to Wing Chun, or Baseball, or Verbal Discourse. They are Universals, and you can train them in many various ways that allow them to spill into all aspects of your life.

As a final note, while this may seem like a sematic arguement, I also believe that James was on the right track in asking how we trained our "Kung Fu" outside the school, and not our "Wing Chun." Wing Chun specifically refers (to me) to a specific way of dealing with physical threats, while Kung Fu (by definition) refers to the hard work we put into something, and the skill and achievement we get out of it. THAT'S something you can train anywhere, anytime...

-Levi

[james hfyofAZ]

PV,
You know your right when it come down to training you do need both. You must have that balance of body,mind, and your spirit. My real reason for writing this was to find out how seriously the people on the forums train. And you can tell by the word they write. You get a glimpse of whether or not that writer is all take/words or if they actually do kung fu. You train both mind and body. I'm going to school know to train, I'll read up latter. Train hard and happy training.

[reneritchie]

My real reason for writing this was to find out how seriously the people on the forums train.

Only way to know that is to train with them. Otherwise its as much supposition as someone trying to figure out how serious anyone could be posting that type of question for that type of reason. 8)

RR

[james hfyofAZ]

thanks Levi,
I think you cleared it up. It should of been, Do you have kung fu?. I thank you for the insight. See you later brother.

[james hfyofAZ]

Did some one say something?
Rena, Your Intelligence exceeds mine o.k. I am trying to understand your last entry. I am talking about the simplistic of kung fu and I'll tell you why. If you start taking about all the in-depth knowledge that is behind kung fu then it will tern in to a philosophical battle of wits that you would win. So slow down on the corrections bud. By the way you never answered my question on how do you train your kung fu. But you really don't have to because you have all ready shown me. You have a lot of wise knowledge. Thanks, I'm out.

[reneritchie]

Hi James,

Dude, your original question was blatent trolling (which you even verified in your reply - so at least you're upfront). And while that's a time honored practice (see angel, red5 for the current standards ;) ), you should at least be able to take the responses it garners.

Rene

(but if Rena's intelligent, and good looking, give her my number...)

[yuanfen]

(but if Rena's intelligent, and good looking, give her my number..
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mine too, provided she isnt a minor.

[yuanfen]

(but if Rena's intelligent, and good looking, give her my number..
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mine too, provided she isnt a minor.
yuanfen

ps: the how do you train your kung fu was a weak trolling question.

[old jong]

Meet Rena....Who's first?.... (http://www.ebaumsworld.com/granny.jpg) :cool:

[Atleastimnotyou]

Old jong.... That will replace the whale in my nightmares:eek:

[yuanfen]

Does Rena have a perfect tan sao?
Meeting her at a certain time and space could be dangerous Old Jong.

[reneritchie]

OJ - Er... no. Take it eazy on l'alcohol, okay? How'sabout this Rena (http://www.renamero.com/PhotoGallery.php3?subsection=Swimsuit&nav=photos) instead?

RR

[old jong]

O.K. admin just once!....;) ;) :D

[yuanfen]

For relevance- one pic witha hat on-seems to be a corruption of
biu jee last section. OTOH- that may be the original attempt to sam pai fat. Since I do "modified" wing chun, I wouldnt know.

[old jong]

Hey how about deleting this thread before the kids arrive from school?...;)

[yuanfen]

Deletion ok. Good bye Rena. Happy training!
Exiting thread.

[kj]

Originally posted by old jong
Hey how about deleting this thread before the kids arrive from school?...;)

Or kj gets home from work .... :rolleyes:

[Sandman2[Wing Chun]]

Alright now, no linking to nudie pics on here fellas.....

[reneritchie]

Sandman, please don't be too hard on OJ, there's a very strong french-canuck beer here called Maudit that just get's him all silly...

RR

[yuanfen]

So poutine and maudit are the key to old jong"s world?

[old jong]

Originally posted by kj


Or kj gets home from work .... :rolleyes:

I was a little affraid of this!;) Rene...Joy!...
Let's behave now!;) :D

[desertwingchun2]

Joy - everyone makes "goof" mistakes on this forum from time to time. I hope you've enjoyed taking your cheap shots.

Rene - James has already given you the line by acknowledging your intellect may surpass his. Did you consider he might just be a little naive about internet etiquette ?? Im sure he was not intentionally "trolling" just asked the question in a way some found offensive. No need to compare my sihing to r5 ... that guy is a king troller and might get offended.


-David
" Viva la huelga! "

[Matrix]

Originally posted by yuanfen
So poutine and maudit are the key to old jong"s world? I think it's "maudit poutine". The order is important...:D

Matrix

[yuanfen]

desertwingchun2
Joy - everyone makes "goof" mistakes on this forum from time to time.

(desertwingchun2- true- if you noticed I did not take offense at my goof being pointed out. BTW- r5a is per postings , as devoted to his art as James is to his- per postings.)

I think it's "maudit poutine". The order is important...

Matrix

((I will have to try that next time I am up Canada way-sounds atleast as good as Tecate and Taquitos to some))

(Rene- Were those chi sao judges who came close to the combatants in order to see who was attacking and who was defending?,<g>))

[old jong]

I don't know....I feel strange, a little dizzy! hot and cold at the same time. Wait a minute!......Beuaaaarrrrk!....:eek: :eek: :eek: Nothing like a good Biere quebecoise and a poutine!;) Rene's dog (Un vrai chien quebecois!) (http://www.ebaumsworld.com/random/doggy.jpg)

Joy.
One of our favorite word is...Tabarnak (bad word!);)

Matrix.
Laches pas mon ami!:)

[yuanfen]

Old Jong- you must have been reading too many KFO posts.
BTW- poutine when mispronounced in a certain way can be a bad word too in another language.... so many babelling tongues!

[Grendel]

Originally posted by yuanfen
Old Jong- you must have been reading too many KFO posts.
BTW- poutine when mispronounced in a certain way can be a bad word too in another language.... so many babelling tongues!
Wait a minute. :confused: There are two pronounciations of poutine?

[Mr Punch]

James, out with it: were you trolling?!

Why the hell does it matter to you how seriously people train? If the question really was about applying your kungfu to outside, that's a good question which has already had some good answers.

Rene wasn't correcting you. Even though he thinks you were trolling. He just pointed out that people have different agenda for kungfu as they do for coming on this board!

And you can't blame him for sounding like a jerk just because he's intelligent, and reasoned and has a lot of experience... Me, I just sound like a jerk because I am one!!!


Now, back to the hijacking... Do you think I could get the Double Rena Sandwich Combination with a Poutine in Maudit Gravy side order?!

[old jong]

Originally posted by Grendel

Wait a minute. :confused: There are two pronounciations of poutine?

I don't know but, I can tell you it looks and smells almost the same going in and coming out!:eek:

That thread has a bad scent or is it my imagination?... :confused:

[yuanfen]

Old jong- lets quit-its getting worse- your description is particularly vivid with a non French misprounciation of poutine.

[reneritchie]

dw2


Rene - James has already given you the line by acknowledging your intellect may surpass his.

Well, unfortunately, in our society that's not always intended as a compliment. James was self-admittedly trolling ("My real reason for writing this was to find out how seriously the people on the forums train.") but as I said, it provoked some interesting thoughts which I shared in hopes that others might find them of interest.


No need to compare my sihing to r5 ... that guy is a king troller and might get offended

That comment wasn't offered for comparison, just as an example of where that kind of post can lead. Personally, I don't mind them that much, but hope they continue into dialog, not into personal bickering.

Matt - Thanks much, though I wasn't trying to be a jerk (if I was, I wouldn't have wasted the time on a thoughtful reply, or bothered to share what was, at times, painfully gained experience).

RR

[james hfyofAZ]

I am sorry if I offended anyone. I am new at this and was trying to get an idea of the people that are out there. Not to challenge their skills or argue with them, More along the lines of what I could have in common with anyone. I train my kung fu all day and all night, for me its a way of life because I'm not train to fight but to see how I can improve in kung fu all together.
Rene you can't go around attacking people, you create enemies. Please stop attacking my sidie, do something more productive like write another book. The last one I thought was really good. I wait to see what others say next. We consider this a historical book. The first time HFY and CS go public in book form. Good fortune health and harmony to all.

[reneritchie]

James,

I didn't attack anyone, anywhere. Not my style. I understand you're new, and believe it or not, I replied to your post in good faith. Perhaps if you re-read it, while it does go off on a tangent, it was very much what your original post inspired in me. If you disagree with anything I said, I'm happy to discuss it with you. I understand you're new, and take that into consideration, but I'm sure you'll find most people don't appreciate being insulted, especially continuously, by new people when they respond to their threads (eg. your responses to my response).

Anyway, enough about personalities. How about your question and my response, anything you'd like to discuss therein?

Thanks for the kind words on my book, they're appreciated.

[anerlich]

I do feel the original post made too much of egotism and a reader could infer the poster was trying on some sort of implied superiority for size. This may not have been the intention, but it did come across that way.

I've never really bought into the "Kung Fu is a way of life" or "martial arts are a means of self actualisation" proposals myself.

There are plenty of counterexamples to the proposal that MA training will make one into a more mature, intelligent and compassionate human being. Plenty of counterexamples in Wing Chun as a whole, arguably some on this forum.

MA training can teach you tenacity, determination, humility, the value of hard work towards a goal, learning to control and harness the emotions under duress, as well as the physical and physiological benefits.

But to assume you are automatically on the way to becoming a better person because you do MA is a false and dangerous attitude. It's not enough. There are other things you need to work on which arguably have nothing to do with MA training. Every day brings us choices great and small, whether to do the right thing or goof off, help that person or ignore them and look after ourselves, let that guy in the other lane in in front of us or cut him off, stop and help when you see an accident or just keep driving.

The challenge is always there. It doesn't go away just because you've done a few years of MA training. Arguably MA is a lifestyle, not a way of life as I understand those terms. Every minute of every day you have opportunities for growth - and for diminishment. I don't claim to be better at this than anyone else. If I trained 24 hours a day (yeah, right) I still wouldn't be.

I think it's only after you've been instructing for a good while that you see that your MA - I train in several martial arts so Kung Fu not my way of life anyway - is most satisfying when you're no longer the centre of it, but your peers, sidais and students are.

[Mr Punch]

Originally posted by reneritchie

Matt - Thanks much, though I wasn't trying to be a jerk (if I was, I wouldn't have wasted the time on a thoughtful reply, or bothered to share what was, at times, painfully gained experience).


Renee (:rolleyes: small sigh) I know, I know! To him you sounded like a jerk, I was saying that you weren't, and that your replies always seem reasoned.

Bejezus this is a minefield! Serves me right for trying to pull chains. What a jerk!! :D

James, he still wasn't attacking you! This is none of my business: I'm only saying this because as you say, you're new to the board, you don't know who people are, and you don't seem to be understanding anything Rene writes!

[reneritchie]

Anerlich - Very good post. I have met many, many "sifu" over the years, some very famous, some celebrities. I can count on one hand the number of really outstanding human beings amoung them, and still have fingers enough left for a rude gesture or two.

Now I'm not referring to people who talked a good game (plenty of those), but people who through their everyday actions showed it. I'm also not referring to people who played "sifu" for their students then went to the strip club to mug people, but people who were like that in martial context and out, to their students and to the guy at the photomat who barged in line in front of them.

Don't get me wrong either. Many were good people, but like myself or most anyone, they had their bad points to (many gambled excessively, or drank excessively, or spoke badly about others, or were felt some deserved better treatment than others, etc.

Another important factor, IMHO, is why you get into MA. Some have been abused. Some are small, physically or otherwise. Some want to teach. Some are bad@$$s who just want to get badder. Some are looking for hippie "Karatekid" like experiences or Shaw Bros. re-enactments. Some are put in by others. Some want to change some aspect of their life. In a twisted way, it's almost like school teachers. Some really want to help kids. Some have other motives, and we can usually tell after the first class which is which.

If you really wanted a romantic experience, you'd watch a Mo Hop flick. If you really wanted a religious/spiritual experience you'd join a temple. If you really wanted eastern meditation exercise you'd do pure yoga or qigong. If you really wanted physical exercise, you'd join a gym. If you realy wanted pseudo-scientific jargo, you'd go to grad school. If you really wanted military, you'd read Clancy and maybe enlist. If you really wanted civil self-defense you'd find an expert like Strong or Blaur and learn the 90% that doesn't involve MA in the standard sense.

What we have is an archaic cultural endeavor, different in kind from, but not in dissimilar in classification to Apalachian Folk Pottery. It touches on many of the elements above, and overall is a very well-rounded activity (and can be *very* rewarding), but in the end its a mix of our needs, our cultural (mis)perceptions of what we want it to be, and the charismatic success of a teacher in matching those for us. Not dissimilar in classification to Apalachian Folk Pottery.

(credit for AFP, I believe, goes to an old Inside Karate coumnist whose name escapes me at the moment).






(now *this* is trolling 8P )

RR

(thanks Mat!)