Yet more questions on Dragon.

[eviljungle]

I've been hardcore in learning the forms on my little video from Sifu Yip. I think I've finally learned how to properly express Sam Tung Kuen. :D

Anyway my question is this. I've been reading about the '5 Sets' of Yung Ling. I'm guessing that these 3 forms are not included in these '5 sets'. Where could I find information on them?

By the way I appreciate all the help from everybody! :cool:

[mantis108]

If indeed you have "understood" the principles behind Sam Tung just learning form the tapes, then I really am happy for you. Sifu Yip's effort in promoting the art is notable.

The 5 "original" forms of Lung Ying are:

Lung Ying Mor Kiew
Duk Se Tou Hey
Duk Se Liam Lei
Fah Gik
Ng Ma Gwai Cho

You can find their information on my Sifu - the Late Sifu Chow Fook's book. There are elements of these forms in the beginner level forms.

Good luck in your journey

Mantis108

Contraria Sunt Complementa

[triskellin]

hey mantis, are those in the order they're generally taught?

To see what you want to see is worse than being blind.

[fiercest tiger]

What about 7 ways of the plum flower i think its called? isnt that a high level form and have you learnt it?

FT :)

come & visit us!
http://home.iprimus.com.au/ykm
yaukungmun@hotmail.com

[Shaolin Master]

I thought the Muifa was developed later by LYG (not of the original 5)......when mixed with Northern Kung Fu yeah!...just kidding :D

the order, seems logical given the mean of Ng Ma Gwai Cho (s/be last).

take it away M108 ;)

[meltdawn]

Two more cents:

I would venture to say most Lung Ying schools teach the following three forms first:

Sup Luk Tong
Sup Ji
Sarm Tong

Then there are many more under Mor Kiu, and many more above.

Like:

Soy Kiu
Ying Jow
Mung Fu Tiu Cheung
The two Say Mens
Sarm Ma Chai
Lin Mon Chi Lup

FT, Mui Fa Chut Lo. Yes it is a very high form. I would say very few people have seen it, and fewer still have the lengthy form in it's entirety. Asking if anyone on the forum has it is like walking into a party and asking if anyone's got a gun on them. 1) They won't tell you if they do, and 2) like in your neck of the woods, it's doubtful people have guns! ;)

There are also many weapons. My Sigung, Lam Lop Gei, was well-know in Hong Kong for his weapons. My master has the bench, the staff, butterfly swords, spear, tiger fork, and who knows how many others. My Sigung also had a bicycle chain form. How's that for a Jet Li movie?

"Waiting is bad." - Musashi
www.lungyingjingjung.com (http://www.lungyingjingjung.com)

[triskellin]

what is the english translation for:

Sup Ji
Soy Kiu
The two Say Mens
Sarm Ma Chai
Lin Mon Chi Lup

i've never heard of them. we've got a 10 movements, is that the same as sup ji? i think we call it sup dung, or i think i've made that up from sup luk dung... :D

To see what you want to see is worse than being blind.

[meltdawn]

The following is only my flawed translation based on my limited Cantonese and limited knowledge of the vast meaning to be found within each of the forms:

Sup Ji = Ten
Soy Kiu = Break bridge
Say Men Tiu Da = Four gates turn hits
Say Men Bik Da = Four gates approach hits
Sarm Ma Chai = Three horses even
Lin Man Ji Lup = Double stick grab
(could be other's Lup M Ying - have to compare sometime)

I forgot!!
Dan Bing Gau Ju - Warrior saves master (so far my favorite)
Dan Do Put Ma - Single sword equal mount

"Waiting is bad." - Musashi
www.lungyingjingjung.com (http://www.lungyingjingjung.com)

[mantis108]

Hi Trisk,

They are in general in the following order:

Lung Ying Mor Kiew:

Most famous form and seed form of Lung Ying. Used to be only taught when becoming disciple of the style.

Duk Se Liam Lei:

This form is almost like the Subset of Mor Kiew. It also contain elements of Meng Fu Tiew Cheung, Dan Do Putt Ma, and Mor Kiew. A fast and fluid set.

Duk Se Tou Hey

Again fast is key feature. "Harder" than the Liam lei. Looks kind of like Ng Ma.

Fah Gik

Softness rides the hard. Neutralize opponent's attack with the suppleness of the waist. Key tech. is Sok Sau Tau Kiew Lin Wan Say Jeung.


Ng Ma Gwai Cho

Well, there are so many opinons on the title of this form that there can be a single thread about this. But watch the VCD of Sifu Ma then you decide. Incidently, Sigung Lam Yui Kwai had taken picture of this form. In fact, Meltdawn has one of them in the entire series posted on her Site.


FT,

I have only seen a move or 2 of the Mui Fah, it used to be only lineage holder candidate(s) would be taught this form. But than Mui Fah is also said to be found in Ng Ma Gwai Cho and Dan Do Putt Ma. So...

Mantis108

Contraria Sunt Complementa

[fiercest tiger]

hi guys ive seen this form its very nice and long!

so did lyg make this up? would all lung ying sifu's know it or do some only get taught this if they are bai shi's?

thanks

come & visit us!
http://home.iprimus.com.au/ykm
yaukungmun@hotmail.com

[Kevin Barkman]

Hi - I've been priviliedged to see several sections of the form performed - to me, they looked quite different from one another. The form has various techniques and emphasis not found in any of the lower level sets. In fact, it is almost completely different than the other material. Same principles of course, but more spiriling, circular movement. Much more coiling, more mobility - covers a heck of a lot of ground! Ho ho gwai!

Cheers!

[triskellin]

sorry, i've got no comments on the plum flower form. never even heard of it till i came here *shrugs* it's like telling me there's 2 snake forms, i'll worry about it when i get there, but atm i'll concentrate on what i know.

about weapons... are the forms the same, or at least similar in every school? specific open hand forms may vary slightly from school to school, but weapons are weapons, you could make heaps of forms from one weapon. i'm not too sure if there's specific forms for weapons, or more than 1 for each. eg. we've got 2 forms for the broadsword (none of which is the one on sifu yip's tape), and only one for the staff... thanks.

To see what you want to see is worse than being blind.

[sanjia]

Melt, whats Sub Ji?
Do any of you guys/gal count Ma Bo Chung Chui as a set?
Is this Sub Ji?

Mark

[meltdawn]

Trisk,

I don't know about other schools' weapons curriculum. I know many seem to have broadsword, butterfly swords, staff and bench. My master doesn't focus on the sword, but there's a huge curriculum of the other stuff.

Mark,

Our Sup Ji has chung choi's in it, but I don't know if it's what your school calls Ma Bo Chung Choi. Unless you're talking about drills, we have some of those too.

"Waiting is bad." - Musashi
www.lungyingjingjung.com (http://www.lungyingjingjung.com)

[SwaiingDragon]

could someone give a list of school, by state for southern dragon style?

also the name of the forms and in order, i kind of lost track....

thanks

mejor que digan, 'aqui corrio' no que 'que aqui morrio'

[triskellin]

er, well most of us are spread around the world, we're not only in the states. also, each school may have a different order in teaching forms. but like melty said, 16 movements is always the first one taught. i've noticed most schools teach their own little set after this as well, whether it's 10 movements, 7 moves, etc. and then sam tung. after that it's entirely up to the sifu to teach you whatever forms up to mor kiu if you're lucky. i assume after that u get taught the remaining 4 'original' forms. just my guess though, i'm only one below mor kiu and i haven't asked what happens after that.

To see what you want to see is worse than being blind.

[SwaiingDragon]

my understanding is that Dragon style is a sister sytem to wing chun and bak mei-

so the three sytems should have the following weapons in common: long pole and butterfly swords.

how many forms of each weapon are there?

[eviljungle]

I've been a WC practicioner for about 2 years and have been experimenting with Dragon for about 3 weeks. :D

So far I've noticed that the two arts actually have very few things in common. The range of techniques seems somewhat similar, but the ready positions, stepping, and hand techniques vary quite a bit.

Keep in mind I'm a total Dragon newbie though. :p

[Kevin Barkman]

I don't usually comment on other Arts, but I don't understand why anyone thinks WC is related to DS. Aside from being a short hand art (like Northern Mantis and Choy Lee Fut being long hand arts), there are almost no similiarities.

If you are looking for WC relations, look no further than HG - the pigeon toed stance (or goat capturing), the bong sau, pak sao, the vertical fist, sticky hands, the similiarities between SLT and FHSYK (breathing sequence). To me, it seems these arts must have come into contact a long time ago, and shared principles. Now, which one came first, WC or HG - seems obvious to me....

Now, Bak Mei and Lung Ying - that's another story!

[SwaiingDragon]

it is my understanding that winh chun, bak mei and lung yin are all sister systems- if anyone can verify there lineage - i believe it is shared...

back to my original question...

i understand that there 5 basic hand sets- can any one give me then names of the rest or all-

and what of butterfly swords and long pole- how many forms do are there?

thank you-