Li Jing Lin, Li Kim Lam, Wudang Sword Master

[kai men]

Hi guys, here Horacio Di Renzo, kung fu teacher from Buenos Aires, Argentina. I want to ask you if anyone has some information about this important master, he taught Ku Yu Cheung and Woo Van Cheuk among others, his tai chi chuan and / or his Wudang Sword knowledge.
Can anyone help me with some link - book - article about him? Thanks a lot in advance.

[Nexus]

If you have the opportunity to study with someone who knows Wudang sword then definetely do so. It is an excellent form and style.

[RAF]

Kai Men:

If you go to the sword forum, there are some postings under Chinese Sword section, Yang taiji Jian history.

I posted some things from the old Chen Style Journal.

Li Jing Lin learned his wudang taiji sword techniques from Song Wei Yi who supposedly learned from a daoist in the mountains (not too comfortable with that, everyone seems to have a hidden daoist in the mountain).

Chen Weiming, disiciple of Yang Cheng Fu, in his sword book, tells of Li Jing Lin teaching him some of the sword fighting techniques and exercises that Yang Cheng Fu had not taught. Chen indicates that Li Jing Lin's sword is indeed a taiji sword.

If you find any other info, please post.

Thanks.

[kai men]

Thanks a lot for your info! I have read that the "obscure Taoist Monk" name is Jang Ye He. I will go to the sword forum, hope to read a bit more about your tale on Chen wei Ming's experience.
thanks again
horacio

[taaigihk]

Kai men, I've read that Li Jinglin met Wang Xiangzhai (founder of yiquan) in Tianjin around 1911 and was defeated by him. Li was armed with his sword while Wang was barehanded.. :)
Here's the link (chinese) http://jkd-kl.51.net/index-da1.htm

[kai men]

Well, to tell you the truth I couldn't understand a word ;-) it is in chinese! and I can't read chinese. But anyway, it seems that everybody had defeated him jajajjaa. The same is told about Chen Wei Ming, Yang chen Fu, a Hsuay CHiao Master, and so on. It only tells me about how valuable it was considered to defeat him.
Thanks a lot
horacio

[RAF]

No offense, but beating up on Li Jing Lin seems to be a favorite past-time among various famous martial artists.

Yang Cheng Fu supposedly beat him at the sword;
Chang Tung Sheng supposedly beat him at pushing hands using Shuai Jiao and Li Jing Lin then taught him his Yang's taijiquan.

Now we find an yiquan master who beats him, too.

For a guy that was so famous, he sures gets beat up a lot!

Li Jing Lin was a top warlord of the Hebei Province and often invited masters to teach his troops and learn from.

Doesn't raise an eyebrow does it?

[RAF]

Kai Men:

You beat me by seconds in responding.

Something just doesn't sound right.

Li Jing Lin died at about 47 or 49.

The Li family is still around and Li De Yin has been writing on the history of martial arts.

Maybe someone in their family can shed lights on all of these defeats.

[kai men]

Thanks a lot RAF. In fact I have found good info in the sword forum.
About who beat who, it doesn't really matter. all the kung fu world is full of this kind of stories, the winner depending on who is the teller.
Kindest regards to everyone,
horacio

[Esteban]

Hi Raf,

I agree that it shows a lot that so many people need to say that they've defeated Li Jinglin. I'd never heard these, though.

"Li Jinglin met Wang Xiangzhai (founder of yiquan) in Tianjin around 1911 and was defeated by him. Li was armed with his sword while Wang was barehanded. :)"

That would be the equivalent of someone saying that they barehandedly bested Li Shuwen with his spear.

And, you mentioned the one about Chang Tungshen. It sounds really unusual that someone beats someone else, then takes lessons from that person. No that it couldn't happen, but it'd be sort of unusual.

Respects,
Esteban

[TenTigers]

not so unusual; one of my training partners, and close friend became so after soundly mopping the floor with me. I've been getting my arse kicked by him for almost 20 yrs, now. And no, I ain't tellin.

[RAF]

Don't you ever wonder why old Chen Fake, Chen Zhaokui, Yang Cheng Fu and all the other taiji players, living around the same time period, didn't get together and have one big tournament to find out just who was the best?

I think the actual history of these artists would be as interesting as the stories we hear of them.

Good nite and sweet dreams!

[GeneChing]

Li Jin Ling is part of the Bak Sil Lum lineage so he comes up frequently there. Here's one thread that just came up again recently - http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=12503

[Walter Joyce]

RAF,
Think how bad it would have been for the businesses of the losers in that dream match.
:rolleyes:

[RAF]

Gene Ching:

Thanks for that post, it really opens up a lot for me. The defeat of Li Jing Lin by Yang Chien Hou rather than Yang Cheng Fu makes more sense since Chen Weiming readily admits being taught by Li Jing Lin.

Walter:

I was just wondering aloud! Hmmmm, so they built their reputations upon beating up lessers rather than equals.

You know, if two equals challenge there is a good chance both will survive and both be damaged beyond repair and in the long run, no one wins!

[Esteban]

Hi Ten Tigers, RAF,

well, I'd still argue that it's unusual, but not impossible by any means. Most boxers are trained by pgople who'd they would mop of the floor with. What I meant was that it isn't the traditional Chinese story, and in Chang Tungshen's case, it would be interesting since he also develops his own style of tcc. Anyway, RAF, I've also heard that Li Jinglin was Yang Chien Hou's student, if not defeated by him: i.e., he was his primary tcc teacher. Besides, it isn't really a matter of whether someone beat him, anyway. It's rare to find someone who's gotten good without having gotten beat. And, that's another reason that the "big names" don't have any incentive to "sort it all out." For what, the "Mr Number One" won't be given a moment's peace for the rest of his life. Was it someone here who posted the story about the famous Japanese martial artist who was stabben in the back by a 7yr old? Who said "Now I'm Number One."

Best,
Esteban

[JAZA]

Trough Woo Van Cheuk, Doc Fai Wong knows the wudang sword. But I don't know if he teach it.

[RAF]

I originally read about the Wudang sword in an article written by Doc Fai Wong in the old Wushu/Kung Fu magazine. If I remember correctly, he thought that the Yang taiji sword came through Yang Ban Hou from Song Wei Yi.


Can't seem to find the old article.

[RAF]

Great post, Wujidude!

Its also the same time that Liu Yun Qiao met Chen Fake at a military academy demonstration in Beijing. I assume that Chen Fake played pao chuei and Liu performed liu da kai. They mutually recognized the similarities of both systems and later exchanged material.

Liu told of this exchange in the 1970s, long before Chen's taiji became as popular as it has now become. He wanted it preserved as part of the Wu Tan Development Center because he knew it to be a great art.

Now where was Wu Tunan during this time?

[Stacey]

Doc Fei Wong is a butt boy

[Esteban]

Hi Wujidude, RAF,

do you know who the Chen style teacher was at the Central Guoshou Academy in Nanking during those years (1928 to c193)?

Respects,
Esteban

[RAF]

Esteban:

That's a good question for Jarek.

I'd like to know the answer, too.

[JAZA]

And you Stacey are guy who use a woman name, that's call trucho or maricon in this places.
Don't be a troll guy.

Sorry for the languague to the rest of the participants of this forums( if you undertand spanish)

[kai men]

I wonder how a person (stacey) can loose time writing this kind of **** about anyone.
Please ignore him, as he has nothing to do with true kung fu way.
Regards
horacio

[Walter Joyce]

Great post wujidude.

The more familiar I become with chen, the more I am drawn to it. I don't think this requires setting aside Yang practice, but it definitely has more martial content than Yang.

I just did a two day workshop with Chen Zhen Lei. I always liked the silk reeling (now I have two more sets to practice), and he taught us the 18 essential form as well. Very cool stuff. I like the way practicing the form allows for you to practice fa li from the get go. Afterall, skills don't just appear, but are the result of continued consistent practice.

Again, great post.

[kai men]

I want to express my most sincere THANKS to all who have helped me to know more data about GrandMaster Li Kim Lam (Li Jing Lin) , Mr Gene Chin, and others. Thanks a lot for introducing me on the Sword forum also!!
I hope someday I will be able to help others too.
Xie Xie!
kindest regards from Buenos Aires, Argentina
horacio

[Esteban]

Hi Wujidude,

this doesn't mention his teaching, but it is from Cheng Zhenglei's site

Chen Zheng Lei, rigorously following the method which was used in ancient times in Chinese families to hand down the Kung Fu and its culture, which the Chen family has managed to maintain wholly in its antique values up to this day, was chosen by his father to be instructed from his grandfather Chen Zhao Pi, in the art of Taijiquan, with its history and philosophy. In these teachings the ancient master was famous, having made a profound study of the theories and history of the method in 1935, when he was in the city of Nanking, as member of the National Association of Martial Arts.

http://www.kungfuwuyinsu.it/TaijiChen/eng/mcheneng.html

Respects,
Esteban