Falling step?

[IRONMONK]

Hi

what is the falling step exactly?

I know that Jack Dempsey used this and Bruce Lee.
Do the other wing chun Lineages use this?
Or was this adapted from GM kernsecth training in non-classical gung fu(Jesse Glover)?

regards,

faze.

[anerlich]

IMHO TWC footwork is not dissimilar to Dempsey's approach, including the use of the "falling step".

The best way to find out nore about the falling step is to read "Championship Fighting", IMHO an essential read for anyone wishing to learn how to hit hard.

Tao of JKD had entire sections lifted straight out of Dempsey's book.

Dempsey was around for decades before Keith Kernspecht appeared on the scene, and from what I've read and seen of WT footwork, there is little commonality between the two approaches. If KK is claiming this as his own (a notion I strongly doubt), unless he means something entirely different from JD when he talks about the "falling step", he is telling porkies.

[Gandolf269]

Ironmonk,
The falling step is used to get your entire body mass behind your punch. Imagine standing on a box and your opponent is standing on the ground in front of you. You punch him as you're stepping off of the box. Hitting him before your foot hits the ground, therefore your entire body mass is used in your punch. Jack Dempsey used it to perfection and wrote about it in a book he had on boxing. It's effectiveness is exemplified by the fact that he was not big by heavy weight standards (185 lbs.) but won 75% of his fights by knockouts.


Anerlich,
GM Kernspecht mentions it is his book "On Single Combat", but does not take credit for it. In fact he mentions Dempsey as his source. In WT we are taught a different way of getting the mass of our body behind our punch, because using the falling step puts all of your weight on your front foot, which is a no no in WT. But the principle is definately there in our setpping and punching.

[anerlich]

I thought the KK reference would be something like that. I never really thought he would be claiming it for himself.

[yuanfen]

The Dempsey falling step works best with Dempsey body structure- top heavy, bobbing and weaving- at the end of the falling the body power falls into place. From what I have seen the wt step is different but the back foot drag serves a similar purpose presumably. The TWC foot and knee arrangement possibly lends itself to the falling step function.Several other line's footwork including mine is different from WT and TWC. Each has its own mechanics.Good people in any of the ways can make their's work but of course there are pluses and minuses in the details imo.

[AndrewS]

FWIW,

in WT I have been taught to consider the weight shift from slant thrust kick to low gum sao in chum kiu to be a 'falling step', in near pure Dempsey sense. The weight drop Dempsey describes doesn't require you shift weight from one leg to the other, you can 'fall' onto your support leg by relaxing. In fact, you can do this every time you step forward in 0/100, much as Dempsey would shuffle forward with a left 'jolt', timing the weighting of the leg to follow the arrival of the 'jolt'.

It's not exactly the same mechanic, but it should get people thinking about using bodyweight to hit- the easiest way to get some power fast.

Later,

Andrew

[IRONMONK]

Hi,

Thanx evryone for their replies.

Andrew,

so basically u dont have to shift weight to get a fallingstep-it can be done from 0/100 step?u wrote"you can 'fall' onto your support leg by relaxing"-what do u mean by this ?is supporting leg the back/front leg in 0/100 stance?


Also does the fist move at the same time as the foot or does the foot move slighlty after fist?
does the fist make contact with target beore foot lands on floor or is it simultaneous?


Regards,

Faze.

[AndrewS]

Hi Faze,

In answer to your first question, yes, though that's probably a weird piece of mechanics best left alone at your level. Work on evolving power from down to up first, and if you want to explore up to down, do escrima which teaches it from day one, as WT does down to up, then you'll have basis for comparison, and see where some mechanics are shared.

Fist contact is usually before, but at the same time with the elbow directly over the knee is very nice too. For feel, you can really exaggerate things at first and hit a pad a partner holds, making sure to touch the hand before the foot, as most folks will make the opposite mistake and need to overcompensate in training in the other direction a bit (btw- not leading with your hands or moving hand and body at the same time, and what do you lead with- your chin).

Later,

Andrew

[cobra]

I'll have to agree with AndrewS, I just got done reading "Blitz Defense" by GM Kernspecht and in it he says the falling step comes from the slant thrusting kick and low gum sao. I promise I saw it in black and white and he wasn't taking credit for it. This also goes along with what I've been taught in the US.

[teazer]

Originally posted by AndrewS
the weight shift from slant thrust kick to low gum sao in chum kiu to be a 'falling step', in near pure Dempsey sense......
It's not exactly the same mechanic

The most fundamental difference that comes to mind being that with the Dempsey thing, the body motion + punch are in the same direction, whereas the gum sao is moving in almost the opposite direction to the drop.
An interesting move to play around with nonetheless.