Fighting style for law enforcement?

[jmannix]

Question: What's the most "practical" fighting style for someone in law enforcement?

Background: 30 year-old former Marine, 6'2 215#s, gearing up for Sheriff's Academy and career in law enforcement.

Current opinion: Due to the nature of the job, I anticipate that most problems that occur will be when trying to "cuff" an unwilling individual, so I would think that the "goal" would be to physically subdue the perp if need be until the proper metallic/plastic restraints can be applied. Current/former law enforcement professionals with any relevant data/experience in this area are more then welcome to sound off as I would greatly appreciate the input. Thanks in advance.

[Prosser]

Aiki training will help with the manipulation when handcuffing.
BJJ training helps alot when the fight goes to the ground and thats where most departments train officers to take 'combative' persons into custody.
Kung Fu or Chinese MA will help when the threat is active and throwing puches.
The real decision will be determined by the department policy and opinion on use of force.
To be truly efficient as a LEO you must cross train. No one MA does it all.

Prosser

[Neurotic]

Hey jmannix,

One of our Wing Chun Instructors in Melbourne is a Constable of some sort within the Australian Police department.

I've also known a few police officers go through our school as well.

Not saying that WC is the be all and end all, but something you may want to check out.

Most schools do free trials/cheap intro offers. Go check out a few in your area.

Hope you find it.

Neurotic

[Former castleva]

Let´s see what I know them to have done/and what they do:
aikido (as previously mentioned.Good points include smaller risk of injury which might be even proven,and great controlling methods.Only art taught to japanese riot police and taught for law enforcement/security forces worldwide)
Jujutsu (has been used in law enforcement for a significant amount I think)
Hapkido (nice,well-rounded korean art used by bodyguards,military and law enforcement,in korea and out)
Hwa rang do (Another korean art,slightly similar,less known,harder to find but again,used for previously mentioned purposes)

And then there is one independent japanese MA which it based on law enforcement purposes alone,it includes techniques from various martial arts (can´t remember the name)

[Stranger]

I believe FC is referring to Taihojutsu, a Japanese eclectic police martial art that combines elements of aikido, judo, and karate.

Hojojutsu is the Japanese art of binding and restraining prisoners with cord. This may be somewhat applicable if you ever have to detain somebody when you are without cuffs for one reason or another. For police use, some of the knots are WAY too dangerous (as in potentially lethal).

[Former castleva]

Stranger,
thanks for bringing it up,it might very well have been taihojutsu (I rely on your information so I won´t be checking it out)

I´ve heard of hojojutsu one time I think.
Quite a bizarre art,there were some pictures of their...uh techniques on www,probably very hard to track down as an art but considerable in a way I guess.

[Stranger]

Don Angier, Soke of Yanagi Ryu, has a two-tape series on the topic of hojojutsu. They are available through www.bugei.com

[GeneChing]

It's a modern Chinese military police style, very practical stuff - http://store.yahoo.com/martialartsmart/milpolvid.html

[jun_erh]

my teacher is a prison guard in a maximum security prison. The style we are taught is called kuosho, but it's basically kung fu and boxing in the begining and then jujitsu and chin-na at the end. that is, the general point is to get to the chin na (joint lock). I would go to a generic self-defense class and ask around there, tell them what you want. My teacher does those like teaches women to defend themselvs and stuff. He claims he can use his handcuffs like nunchuks but I've yet to see him do it

[Mr Punch]

Originally posted by Stranger
I believe FC is referring to Taihojutsu, a Japanese eclectic police martial art that combines elements of aikido, judo, and karate.

The Japanese riot police used to have to train a year of intensive Yoshinkan aikido (as in 'Angry White Pajamas') and of kendo. Nowadays they can choose one or the other. Taihojutsu is not so much a defined system of martial arts, but does, as you pointed out contain basic elements of other martial arts. It seems pretty much like your average mixed bag of self-defence techniques from down your local community centre.

The riot police in the UK and Holland (the only ones I know for sure... and I don't know so much about the 'regulars') are taught basic aiki techniques and counters, including those incorporating side-handle batons, telescopic batons and short sticks...

[GeneChing]

Haven't seen this one myself, but people seem to like it.
http://store.yahoo.com/martialartsmart/pr-tm001.html
http://store.yahoo.com/martialartsmart/pr-tm002.html

[Dark Knight]

The US Ju-Jitsu Federation runs a Taiho Jutsu program. It is post certified in some states.

Check out the information on it at:

http://www.usjujitsu.net/info/us_taiho_jutsu.htm

[JerryLove]

Considering your large size and experience as a Marine, I would imagine you really only have one or two things that are likely benifited readily by training. You already mentioned the most obvious (upright grappling use in apprehension). This ties in well with ground-grappling. The suggestions are not bad; I'd recommend a Jujitsu / Sambo art equally. Systema has some appeal here for slightly different reasons.

The second real problem spot would be an armed attacker at close range. Avoiding the knife long enough to shoot becomes the goal (and personal weapon retention). That's going to depend more on instructor than art. I've seen some good people in some Silats, JKD, and Fairbran / Applegate stuff. I'm sure that the police dept / Sheriff's dept will put a god deal of time into training that.

Also, ask around. Often as not there is a school manyof them attend. Oddly, this is not always a good school (theone here isn't) but you will get plenty of opportunity to interact with fellow officers / deputies on their experiences.

[jungle-mania]

www.cdt-training.com

May we beat the **** out of each other and be friends.
Peace.

[chief108]

I believe there are many systems that will do the trick and that no style would be better than the other....

Nowadays you also hear a lot about Krav Maga which came from the Israelian army.
It IS very effective, but if you are trained in ANY system AND know how to fight... you will get to the same point as them KM dudes...

I will put some selfdefense against armed attackers on my site soon, just to show that kung fu will work in the same way when it comes to serious selfdefense situations....

(Visit www.selini108.com to see what I mean ;) )

conclusion: find a style that "suits" you, that you like to train, that fits your age and body mechanics and train!!! and remember that you will have to learn to put it all into combat and selfdefense applications...

Have fun, train hard!!

Chief108

[General Kwei]

I was talking to a couple of Police officer friends of mine the other day. We were talking about martial arts and it was a really interesting discussion. Here is what I got out of it:

First of all, I believe that police officers should be recquired to have rigorous and ongoing martial arts training. Why? Because if you can learn to control and have the skill to control, a situation when it begins to get physical, and it does a lot with policemen, then the issue can be resolved before it gets escalated.
Bottom line is this stops officers and perps from being shot. I am not saying some people arent asking to be shot, just that if a situation gets that out of control, you have to wonder if things could have been handled better earlier on.

Here is another observation these guys made. We all work on a security team at a local venue where we often have to deal with physically violent or potentially violent people. most often these people are drunk and so you can imagine this does not help the situation, and lastly, these people are normally not in groups smaller then 3-4, which poses problems all its own. These police officer freinds of mine pointed out that of all of the members of our team, myself and another member who is a martial artist, do well at resolving situations peacefully, better then the rest, some of which obviously are police officers with their own special brand of training.
My conclusion was that possibly, discounting the chance that the two of us might just be that sort of personality, our martial training gives us confidence in our ability to control a situation from the get go.

What do you guys think?

[Dark Knight]

Go to USJJF.org. They have a Taiho Jutsu program that is a law enforcement program. A couple states have used it as a post certified class. They offer it as part of a cirriculum into higher ranks.

[rubthebuddha]

agreed that they should all have regular training, but it can't be the exact same as the rest of us. police would have to be more focused on restraining than on striking. styles that prefer striking, especially strikes to the eyes, knees, nuts, throat, etc. would be discouraged, as are some grappling styles lately. dealing with a enraged or intoxicated (particularly drugs) perpetrator and expecting them to react the same way as a sober (literally and figuratively) partner can be an enlightening experience. using pain compliance works great on sober people, but get someone who's overly hyped up or out of it and that shoulder lock can easily turn into a shoulder break.

now, that shoulder break can be grouped with the strikes to the vitals in one big area -- lawsuit fodder. blind a person in one eye and the city/state you work for will have civil suit papers on its desk in a week. give someone a life-changing injury to their shoulder and the same can be said.

now where does this put police? well, they are left in a nasty position -- stuff that works great at stopping people, either by breaking a knee or knocking them out cold, leaves their office open for legal problems later. so what do they do?

i think this is the biggest reason behind the increase in using safer and more humane methods of restraint. while a taser is very painful, the pain goes away in a bit and the hair will grow back. this is preferable to having to overcome a criminal in order to arrest them, especially if the officer is alone and/or of less than desirable strength.

okay, i lost focus and am just rambling. someone else jump in.

[TaoBoy]

It seems that here in Australia the requirements are:

- How to beat unarmed protestors with a baton 101
- How to pressure point compromsied, unarmed protestors 101
- How to ride horses over unarmed protestors 101

Get the idea?

[LEGEND]

I think BATON 101 is the best training they have...I saw a bunch of cops break up a hispanic vs. asian fight with BATONs...never saw so many live bodies litered on the floor.

[rubthebuddha]

in seattle, it's broken up into two classes:

1. how to ignore the ******* protestors who are ****ing up the city, and

2. at the same time, how to harass and arrest the protestors who are protesting for social reasons.

[Yung Apprentice]

Who was winning the asians or the hispanics?:D

[jon]

TaoBoy
"It seems that here in Australia the requirements are:

- How to beat unarmed protestors with a baton 101
- How to pressure point compromsied, unarmed protestors 101
- How to ride horses over unarmed protestors 101

Get the idea?"


Oh... thats so scarily true :(

You forgot a couple though:

- Ducking beer cans at sporting venues 101

- Shooting unarmed Aboriginals for no apparent reason 101


To any who believe that there police force is a finaly oil machine of stupidity have a listen to this.

Our highway patrol...
Get up everyday, put on leather riding pants and then drive around in a car all day.

[dezhen2001]

leather riding pants! :eek: d@mn they must wedgie! :D

dawood

[GeneChing]

More on Taiho Jutsu.




TAIHO JUTSU – THE DEADLY BUT NON-LETHAL FORM OF MARTIAL ARTS (http://www.bodahub.com/taiho-jutsu-non-lethal-martial-arts/)

http://i2.wp.com/www.bodahub.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Taiho-Jutsu-–-The-Deadly-but-Non-Lethal-form-of-Martial-Arts.jpg?fit=640%2C302

APRIL 20, 2017 AADITH PRASAD
Martial arts has always held a fascination for some and intimidation for others. Jackie Chan has managed to bring a chuckle or two in his fight sequences. Yet, most combat sequences on the silver screen portray various degrees of brutality. From Krav Maga to MMA, Boxing to Muay Thai, blood and external injury are imminent. However, they turn out to be less worrisome than internal injuries, which have caused massive fatalities in the past. Which is why the Japanese decided to create a deadly but non-lethal form of martial art: the Taiho Jutsu.

TAIHO JUTSU – THE COMBAT SYSTEM TO PACIFY CRIMINALS

From self-defense to sports, from military/ law enforcement applications to entertainment, from a physical, mental and spiritual development to a way of life, martial arts is ubiquitous and eternal. With virtually over 100 forms of combat practices to choose from, the Japanese decided to a create a non-lethal, yet effective form of martial arts to restrain and subdue criminals without injury. In the process, the Taiho Jutsu was born.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RC1cGMArZts

It all started during the demilitarized era of Japan, post-WW2. It was a time when martial arts were prohibited. Public violent outbreaks would occur and the Tokyo police bureau were desperate to find a solution. A meeting soon convened with top notch experts for advice: kendoist Saimura Goro; judoist Nagaoka Shuichi; Shimizu Takaji, headmaster of the Shindo Muso Ryu; Otsuka Hidenori, founder of Wado Ryu; and Horiguchi Tsuneo, a pistol expert. Using classical techniques from Kenjutsu, Jujutsu, and Jojutsu as well as modern disciplines such as karate, kendo, and judo, various techniques were incorporated. This new, proposed system of self-defense also gained ideas from a study of Western boxing.

ACCEPTANCE IN THE WEST

Taiho Jutsu eventually became so popular that it met the standards set by the California Police Officer Standards and Training (POST). It also became the foundation for Arrest and Control/Defensive Tactics curricula. In fact, Taiho Jutsu instructors have gone one level above to teach “Force Options” at Military Units all over the world. This form of combat training became particularly popular because of the techniques used. These generally include wrist control, arm control, holds, and various other joint locks. Where a stronger amount of force is necessary to subdue the opponent, harder Karate techniques were unleashed.

But what truly made Taiho Jutsu special was the number of techniques available at one’s disposal. From the standard striking techniques, kicking techniques, and blocking techniques, as well as others like vital and pressure point techniques, joint locks, counter-striking techniques, strangulation techniques, holding techniques, arresting techniques, throwing techniques, and self-defense techniques (counters, escapes, and avoidance) were used as well.
continued next post

[GeneChing]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvH54iSCZ7w

THE FUTURE OF MARTIAL ARTS?

Conflict is eternal, yet violence need not necessarily be used to solve it. Rather, combat should only be used as a final option, and only when all other means of negotiation fail.

With all the violence being portrayed today, often influencing young minds as a necessary solution to problems, emphasis needs to placed now more than ever on a safer and more disciplined approach to fighting.

ABOUT THE AUTHOR
AADITH PRASAD
Head of Business Operations: Philosopher, animal lover, sportsman, gamer… Aadith has a professional background in finance, and is a comedian and adventurer at heart. He loves conspiracies, loves to write about the bizarre, paranormal, and anything kinky enough to ignite your imagination. Favorite Genre: Psychology, Human Interest, Dark and Not Safe for Work

Many of my Kung Fu brothers went into Law Enforcement - a few still serve - and my former Shifu, Tony Chen, taught police combat. I even wrote the MAR+APR 2003 (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=453) cover story on it: To Protect and Serve: Tony Chen Teaches Kung Fu Secrets to Police (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=454). Combat protocols are completely different when you carry a weapon, especially a firearm. Hand-to-hand is discouraged because you don't want the perp to get close enough to take your sidearm. That's even true if you pack a baton, and in traditional martial arts, you see the same notion reflected with sword carrying.

[SteveLau]

For law enforcement, general fighting style that includes strike, grappling and wrestling techniques should be the go. Because quite often a law enforcer needs to subdue a criminal or suspect. He needs to have somewhat control of the opponent before he can handcuff him.




Regards,

KC
Hong Kong