masters of thugee??

[Shaolin Punk]

wow, check this out. apparantly my town has a lot of these masters.

http://www.boo-yaa.org/Thuggee

[brothernumber9]

it always catches me off guard when i see someone print or say "numb-chuks" hee hee

[yuanfen]

The original designation of "thugees" were applied to key
bandit gangs in North India - UP to Bengal corridor in the 19th and early twentieth centuries. The English word thugs comes from that designation. They were low class/caste social rebels-
anti English and anti upper class- they had their group loyalties.

[diego]

http://www.boo-yaa.org/Thuggee/whatis.htm

LOFL, is'nt that Indiana Jones Catching A DimMak from a Thuggie!?, LMFAO:)

Yuanfen do you have a weblink for the indian thuggees?.

[Jables]

That site was.....disturbing...

But on the "actual" thuggies:

They were South Asian renegades during the time of British Rule, called Thuggies (or Thugs), who were worshippers of the dark goddess of destruction, Kali.

[Ben Gash]

The mastery of this weapon comes in being able to flutter it around when
opening and closing it, thus impressing the **** out of your opponent before
inflicting a cut wound on them
LOL
When practicing with numbchucks be careful not to hit yourself in the nuts :)
nearly as good as the Royal Canadian Mounted Spetsnatz.

[SETANSI]

:D the tonfa was developed from the police baton.
and i thought it was an antient okinawan weapon made from the
hand crank of a bucket being drawn from a well.
but i have to belive a guy if he is a 4 th dan sher fu from naginata china?:confused:

[SETANSI]

" go get your bloody numb chukas!"
quoate from my sifu as he pulls out the three sectional staff
;)

[joedoe]

Originally posted by SETANSI
:D the tonfa was developed from the police baton.
and i thought it was an antient okinawan weapon made from the
hand crank of a bucket being drawn from a well.
but i have to belive a guy if he is a 4 th dan sher fu from naginata china?:confused:

Actually, I thought the tonfa were Chinese in origin. I could be wrong - it wouldn't be the first time :)

[SETANSI]

No it was derived from the police baton !:o

[MonkeyBoy]

It's the turning handle of a Mill Stone.

[SETANSI]

DO NOT TRY TO DISCREDIT THE PROUD LINEAGE OF THUGEE
IT WAS DERIVED FROM THE POLICE BATON
ANY ONE CAN SEE THIS YOU MUST BE BLINDED BY THE MAGIC NINJA SAND WICH WAS DERIVED FROM POLICE PEPPER SPRAY

[anton]

The Thugi were Hindu's who worshipped the violent manifestation of the Hindu goddess Kali (somethimes called the "supreme mother"). Until about a century ago, travellers through rural India risked being caught and ritually strangled by the Thugi, who believed that human ssacrifices were the best way to satisfy Kali's thirst for blood. The British had trouble discouraging these practices even with the approval of the Brahmans. The sect coined the English word "thug". The practice died out early in the 20th Century. Apparently sacrifices continued, only the victims were now goats.

[TkdWarrior]

anton *thug* means bandit *thugee* means *mishcief done by bandits*... it's has nothin to do with hindu's durga/kali sacrifice...
yuanfen actually wrote right things...the only relation Goddess Kali hav with *thugs* is that they used_to/still worship her

-TkdWarrior-

[anton]

^^^hmm did a bit of research and it looks like you're right... another Western misconception of eastern culture.

[TkdWarrior]

quote:
"^^^hmm did a bit of research and it looks like you're right... another Western misconception of eastern culture."

hmm it's cool dude, till u hav open minded approach... :)
-TkdWarrior-

[yuanfen]

Anton- the Brits never understood the Hindu gods and godesses.
So they oversimplified the kali connection. Lots of folks revere
Kali without being anywhere near being thugs.Kali in part originates in the concept of shakti which is generally regarded as a feminine principle of primordial power. Shakta is a male principle-
more represented in muscle strength. Kali hasa very loving gentle side- as Ma-mother- the earth/cosmic mother.
One has to understand symbols before jumping to conclusions....
otherwise the ignorant can (wrongly) regard Catholic and Episcopalian communion as disguised bloodthirsty cannibalism.

[yuanfen]

Anton- the Brits never understood the Hindu gods and goddesses.
So they oversimplified the kali connection. Lots of folks revere
Kali without being anywhere near being thugs.Kali in part originates in the concept of shakti which is generally regarded as a feminine principle of primordial power. Shakta is a male principle-
more represented in muscle strength. Kali hasa very loving gentle side- as Ma-mother- the earth/cosmic mother.
One has to understand symbols before jumping to conclusions....
otherwise the ignorant can (wrongly) regard Catholic and Episcopalian communion as disguised bloodthirsty cannibalism.
TKD warrior where exactly are you from? I am from Calcutta.(
actually near Kali-ghat)

[anton]

Interestingly one (the only?) Hindu sect, that does practice a form of cannibalism (ritually eating a small piece of corpse-flesh in a ceremony an adherent might only undergo once in their life) - the Aghori, describe their deity, Smashan Tara, as being physically very similar to Kali -

(without going into symbolism)
Both have black/blue hair, untied, loose black hair, four arms - one holding a severed head and another a sword, three eyes, a tongue red from the blood of their victims, a girdle of severed arms, a necklace of skulls and both stand on a supine male figure - one foot resting on the chest, the other on the thigh etc...

The only differences I can tell is that rather than standing on Shiva (Kali's husband), Tara stands on a corpse, and that she holds a pair of scissors in one of her hands- symbolising the ability to sever all attachments.

[TkdWarrior]

ok anton hmm ok about AGHORI or Tantric ppls...
ok i hav had chance to talk to one tantric guru... who dismissed exactly wat u said... it's true that they eat human flesh but theres a bit mistake from the part of aghoris as aghoris hav to do all their chanting(to worship the devil god basically) they hav to stay day in day out in cemetory ground they can't leave that place until they r done with it... so for survival they hav to eat something...that's why they hav started but now it's become ritual(sic??) it's commonly misunderstood from most ppls(indians too) about this fact...
now coming to other part of worshpin devil god/goddess... it's a myth(u can say) that it's easy to please these gods/goddess and they'll give u some powers...
any rituals which practices Gods or Godess doesn't ask u to eat human flesh or human sacrifice or any sort of sacrifice for that matter they ask u to be simple, life ur life to fullest, complete ur deeds(it's kind a confusion if i start to tell u)...
intresting about samshan tara... i hav heard about her but don't hav complete knowledge...
to yuanfen: i m from delhi.
-TkdWarrior-

[anton]

From what I understand of the Aghori, their beliefs include the rejection of the purity/impurity dichotomy and an acceptance of "impure" acts such as intercourse and eating flesh (including human flesh) as part of their path.
I saw a documentary on the Aghora cult, that showed tha caniballistic side of it. Basically from what I remember they wade out into the river and retrieve the small piece of flesh near the thigh, that remains unburned; place it inn a small fire and soak it in alcohol, then they plunge their face into the fire and retrieve the flesh, eating it. - the whole time they are dressed in the same fabric that corpses are wrapped in before cremation.

Compare descriptions of tara and kali:

Kali: http://www.brotherhoodoflife.com/AghoraSymbolism.html

samshan tara: http://www.brotherhoodoflife.com/AghoraSymbolism.html

both: http://www.exoticindiaart.com/mahavidyas.htm

[TkdWarrior]

intresting readings anton...
"their beliefs include the rejection of the purity/impurity dichotomy"
well yup i told u how this thing started, may be it goes ahead saying things about purity n impurity, a normal person cannot do this...uummmmm
ok i'll bite..
one things intercourse isn't considered impure in any ways...
when talking about life heaven n spiritualities Indian holy Books says it's not complete without the involvements of both sexes(both male n female)so even if u r looking for spirituality ur journey will not be completed without female(except in cases of Bhakti yoga)same every simple ritual(like remembering our forefathers etc etc) is incomplete without intervension of female.
so when talking about any Tantric ritual practices it's very much important for a woman(or vice versa) to be involved, but it never talked about $ex, but as time passed by aghori/Tantric made it mendatory for ppl(who practices) to hav intercourse...
even this gaves birth to "tantric yoga" in which sex in involved and said u'll attain spirituality by it...the ways in Tantric yoga has nothing to do with spirituality(ok i'll bite again it's abused by Indians, spiritual understand comes but it's different)

it's so very much complicated... if i start writing it could be very very long debate n posts...

eating flesh can be impure to some sects in India, but to some it's agreed that they can eat, in old times only Warriors(Kshatriyas) can eat flesh because eating flesh gives them More of Yang(Man??) element...flesh's "pravirti" or nature is considered "hot" which was needed for those warriors(may be to remain that warrior spirit or act of manhood?? not sure)

yup i hav seen the that documentary too(or it was diff i saw that on discovery but those things u hav written wer same in the show)
dunno much about Shamshan Tara it's looks like another Kali but i m not sure...Man i m not *Aghori* i don't even eat flesh but still belongs to Kshatriya family...
well i havn't researched these things as such ...all these r my points of view...
-TkdWarrior-

[David Jamieson]

If the Brits hadn't encountered India, they would have never become civilized :D

peace

[TkdWarrior]

"If the Brits hadn't encountered India, they would have never become civilized "

Indians gave brits thier kohinoor or shall i say stole from us(civilized?? naah)
wat about Kamasutra?

need more... i can go on n on ...
hmm we hav big hearts for sure...
thnx
-TkdWarrior-

[yuanfen]

TKD warrior- I guessed correctly---Delhi, Punjab etc.

Kung Lek- When Gandhi was once asked what he thought of the civilization of the English... tongue in cheek presumably- he said he was all for it---<g>

Anton_ You are dealing witha very complicated subject where there are lots of erroneous generalizations. The world of Kali is a continuum--- lots of diversity in it. Ramkrishna and Vivekananda's
Kali of Belur Math(bengal) has zilch in common with the thug's kali.
Sashan Kali (cremation grounds Kali-my favorite BTW) has an egalitarian ethic different from the Brahminic worship of Kali after Durga. There is the transformation of kali into the Tara of Tibetan Buddhism.(Tibetan Buddhism came from Bengali travellers) The tantric Kali is different from the common Kali.
Amidst all the diversity--- the common universal is the feminine principle of "shakti" and pure love,(which includes the conquering of the predomnantly male ego).

[anton]

Thanks for all the info guys, the Indian/Hindu culture is certainly a fascinating one, and its great to get educated about some aspects of it (most Indian guys that I knew at school didn't know much about their own culture, so couldn't answer any questions I asked them). I also find the "inferiority" a lot of people of Indian descent feel about their culture (result of British colonialism?) really sad - the culture is so much more interesting and rich than most Western (certainly the British) cultures.

TKDWarrior: I realise that sex in itself is not impure according to the Hindu religion, but I read somewhere that the Aghori have sex with menstruating women - which is a bit taboo.

Another slightly OT question: TKDWarrior mentioned being part of a Kshatriya family - this is a caste is it not? To what extent are caste distinctions observed/important in modern iIndian culture and the Hindu religion these days?

[TkdWarrior]

u r welcome Anton...
i know wat the "inferiorirty" means in Indian culture... i think we Indians wer responsible for this...we had a rich culture which we abused ourselves...greed, selfishness n lots other things which putting together meant indian Fall...but if the Indian youth doesn't try to understand indian Culture then the situation is worst...we r loosing it...i m 21 and brought up in traditional manner i was more close to my culture being traditional doesn't mean living in past its much more knowing urself n ur culture..

yup i agree with sex part anton, if u ever read Kamasutra it says never hav sex in mensuration period, it's because it's unhealthy(for females) in Indian environment. Kamasutra talks about proper healthy aspects of sex, environment etc etc...

another of ur question about casting system... well basically Indian Caste system was divided upon the work by ppl so there were 4 caste
1.Kshatriya(warriors) their job is to protect weak/country n law enforcement in state/country
2.Bhramins(priests) their job is to teach n advicing community to other caste...and of course they do all those rituals..
3. Vaisya(serving community) farmers , shopkeepers etc etc comes into this community. it serves with facility(ie food shelter) to other comunities
4. shudra(serving) this community serves the upper three communites with their services(like maid n all) but they wer never slaves, because they were happy to serve like this... no restrictions nothing
if u look closely every community works for each other but as i said this too got too much abused... in later times it's become very much dynasty thing(like warriors son will be warrior by birth)
they never cared wat kind of job u do but if u r priest(by birth) u'll be given respect even u r working as shudra
so rite now in hindus the todays Laws favor shudras(as other communites exploited them) today caste system doesn't exists but in remote village they still follow the abused system...
hope this explains it...

-TkdWarrior-

[Former castleva]

Tonfa which later became known as "nightstick" for policemen comes from Okinawa first being used as an everyday tool,handy weapon.

[Geezer]

If you want to see a more up to date movie on the Thuggee, I would suggest, Pierce Brosnan in The Decievers(but remember it's just a movie);)