View Full Version : Playing Hitman 2 for xbox...feel like a new Jersey sniper
Stacey
10-16-2002, 02:27 PM
This is really fun. I mean its bad that people are randomly getting sniped by this ninja, but just playing the videogame I can see how he/she might really enjoy this.
Defenitly tapping into the id here. Wow...I feel like I want to go sniping people only with a tranquilizer dart instead.
Now that would be cool. Tanqualize and tag celebrities to count them so they don't get past carying capacity.
I really feel that some kinds of "entertainment" are really in bad taste....
Ryu
Xebsball
10-16-2002, 03:11 PM
I played Hitman 1 on the PC, it was great fun
PHILBERT
10-16-2002, 09:20 PM
I just want you to know Stacey I think you are a ****ing God**** idiot.
Stacey
10-16-2002, 09:25 PM
you should come see the SITES of New Jersey
PHILBERT
10-16-2002, 09:40 PM
No, I shouldn't.
there's a difference between enjoying acts in a videogame and committing them in real life.
some kinds of entertainment are in bad taste? anything that glorifies killing maybe? there goes half of everything on tv and in the cinema, they all do that to some extent.
oh yeah, and i'm biased because i'm waiting eagerly for hitman 2 to come out in Australia. stupid forgotten continent.
BeiTangLang
10-17-2002, 06:24 AM
Calling people names because they enjoy a game? Geeze...why not just throw everyone that enjoys playing paint-ball or videogames,....even martial arts, in jail too. Hey,..why not incorporate book burnings, elliminate all internet access, enforce a 1 car,1 child rule & paint everyone that doesn't make 100k plus per year purple? LOL! (Sighs)
(saw the commercial....looks like a cool game!)
(The celeb thing sounds cool too, as long as the actors would be into it. What was the RPG game that was released? Paranoia or something like that a few years ago?)
ewallace
10-17-2002, 06:47 AM
Why is it that you are having trouble with older women again Stacey?
there's a difference between enjoying acts in a videogame and committing them in real life.
Not really that much of a difference actually. Obviously it's not the same, but if someone really finds enjoyment and entertainment from certain things, you'd ask yourself just why they do enjoy it. There's a difference in letting off steam at a shoot em up video game (or killing zombies of what have you) and enjoying the "fun" of carjacking someone (without moral consequences) or stalking and killing someone who is of no threat to you.... the difference is in the mindset and motivation of the game.
If there was a game whose goal was to sneak up and rape women would that also "not be in bad taste" because it's simply entertainment?
You can learn a lot about someone's values and mindset by the kind of things that entertains them. That's just simple facts proven over and over again by psychiatrists, psychologists, and sociologists.
I'm not saying anything about book burning nonsense, free speech, or any other straw man arguments.
I'm simply saying that if someone gets entertained by "hurting innocent people" and performing "criminal acts" in a video game, or watching them on TV .......... well the reason they don't "do it in real life" is possibly because they know they'd pay for it. Give them the opportunity to do such things without any repraccussions and some of these people would surprise you.
To say that someone can enjoy the sight of unjustified killing, stealing, hurting innocent people, in the entertainment venue, but then be disgusted when it happens in real life is a rather weak (and sometimes even foolish) assumption.
Ryu
Badger
10-17-2002, 08:33 AM
What's fun is Pac-man or the Super-Charged Mrs. Pac-man.
Of course, the National Association of Peed-Off People Against the Cruelty of Inky,Blinky & Clyde don't like me very well....
BeiTangLang
10-17-2002, 08:41 AM
Guess we'll just have t agree to disagree Ryu,...I say this because I enjoy playing Grand theft Auto. I take out civillians, cops, gangsters civil-servants, steal cars, blow up targets & other very bad things...all for points. I would never dream of doing these things in real life.
Badger
10-17-2002, 08:47 AM
Whenever I see Blue Ghosts on the street my tummy start to rumble...
I also like Grand Theft Auto... in fact I think it's one of the best and most entertaining game series there is. I guess I'm just a bad person and the only thing that prevents me from repeating these acts is the legal consequences and not my moral beliefs and my ability to separate a game from reality.
:rolleyes:
Badger
10-17-2002, 09:14 AM
I like jumping on mushrooms & smacking stuff on the head with mallots.
I was arrested for jumping on a turtle on a staircase.
I just wanted my 100 extra lives!
Badger
10-17-2002, 09:26 AM
Just be careful crossing the street in a frog-suit.
Well I'll address the actual response since the others are simply sarcastic and aren't really a part of the conversation.
I'm definititly not saying that playing games means you have some innate "urge" to do such things in real life. That would be foolish. I'm only saying that for some entertainment, the motivations on why they really are "fun" is questionable. Video games are not as much a concern to me as is some form of film, etc. (mainly films that create villianous actions as funny, cool, etc.)
Why you're entertained by something, psychologically, is just as important as what you're entertained by.
It basically comes down to this. Some people put more anthropormorphic feeling towards those venues than do others. So for me, taking out civilians and law enforcement officers in a realistic setting (not one of obvious comedy, satire, etc.) has more of a tendency to remind me of the actual crimes that happen when people do just that. Therefore I cannot enjoy it in the game.
Some people will not make that connection. That doesn't make them evil, and 'want to do it." But it does leave the question if either of the two feelings do anything to the person in the long run. That answer hasn't been answered as of yet. :) But it's being researched.
To the extreme, though, the "it's just entertainment" has too much of a potential to get out of hand. Though of course you can say that about a lot of things, even my view on the subject too.
I do believe, though, that a large percentage of the time, people's "entertainment" can reflect a lot about their personal beliefs, etc. That's not always the case, but it definitily can be.
Anyway, agreeing to disagree is okay with me too. ;)
For the others just poking fun......... go read a book.
Ryu
Badger
10-17-2002, 09:36 AM
You cut me deep, man. I can't read.
Oops, sorry Badger. Carry on then, I suppose....
Ryu
Chang Style Novice
10-17-2002, 09:41 AM
Absalom! Absalom! was just too hard. Now I'm reading The Bear, which is still tough, but I can finish it, I'm sure.
I don't think villainy in videogames or movies (or books) affects villainy in real life very much, except for the weakest and most suceptible of minds. So Stacey should probably stay away from Sniper and GTO.
I just want to make a point just so there's no misunderstanding.
The brunt of my argument wasn't in that "movie villiany effects real life villiany." To be perfectly frank, I agree with CSN. I DON'T think it effects real crime that much......
However I do think it does affect apathy/empathy in some ways. For example, if there is a movie which is of the "anti- hero." genre, and in it they kidnap someone, tie them up, rape them, etc. and create a black humor aspect around the whole thing ..... that to me is so incredibly disgusting, and I cannot phathom how someone can enjoy seeing such a thing, or thinking it's funny, and not thinking that what they are being entertained by is cruel in the reality of things even though on the screen it is all fake. :(
I'm not talking about psycho movies, where the killer gets it in the end, (you root for the good guys to catch him, etc.) I'm talking about when you are supposed to root for the villian for doing cruel things to innocent people. That to me, is disgusting. It's not a matter of seperating reality from fantasy..... it's knowing that being entertained by certain "concepts" can be ethically objectionable.
That's all.
And obviously that's a very extreme example.......
The reason I'm getting into film work a bit now is because of that actually..... I'd like to do something about it rather then just sit and complain. :cool:
Ryu
Quote:
"You can learn a lot about someone's values and mindset by the kind of things that entertains them. That's just simple facts proven over and over again by psychiatrists, psychologists, and sociologists.
I'm simply saying that if someone gets entertained by "hurting innocent people" and performing "criminal acts" in a video game, or watching them on TV .......... well the reason they don't "do it in real life" is possibly because they know they'd pay for it. Give them the opportunity to do such things without any repraccussions and some of these people would surprise you."
Actually, I'd be curious to see your sources on this. Well it does make some intuitive sense, it has not been borne out in any rigorous scientific study. Psychologists are still on the fence as to whether video game and other media violence is more of a venting mechanism or whether it has any correlation with a person's propensity for the real thing. I might add that it is just as likely (and possibly more so) that martial arts training makes people more likely to behave violently, simply because violence becomes a more salient response option in the brain when it is trained/reinforced as a response option in stressful situations.
Just 2 cents from a social scientist.
;)
I actually agree for the most part. My sources are in various medical and psychological journals, etc. I can post them if you'd like. But you're absolutely correct in that the "verdict is still out" so to speak. :) A lot of studies have shown opposite results.
Read my last post above. It gets into more of what I'm upset about.... though it's more personal. I'm not trying to harp on "violent media creates violent society." There are studies that seem to point to this, but I am quite aware of the studies that point in the opposite direction too. :)
Okay, that should be it for me on this thread. (I feel very strongly about some of this, and don't want to risk getting angry for no reason..... :D Kind of a personal thing.)
Ryu
I think we're on the same page. Your last comment didn't come up until after I had posted.
Badger
10-17-2002, 10:10 AM
What are some of the names of the movies are you referring to. Just curious.
Alot of people liked Pulp Fiction. I hated it.
They were all bad guys...no one to root for,ya know.
I don't go see many regular movies anymore.
Mostly because when I go I have my 4 year old son with me. Movies like Monsters Inc. & Spiderman are much better anyway.:)
Badger
Originally posted by Ryu
Video games are not as much a concern to me as is some form of film, etc. (mainly films that create villianous actions as funny, cool, etc.)
Well, allow me to play devil's advocate to myself for a moment. Wouldn't you suppose that a game where you(the player) actually commands your on-screen persona(the character) to perform these immoral acts (killing innocents and cops, carjacking, sniping, etc) would actually have more effect on you than just watching a movie character perform the same acts?
Now, personally.. what I find entertaining and my real life ethics and morals are two very separate things. I like gangster movies and Tarantino-type movies and games like Hitman and GTA, and I do have a very dark sense of humor. I'll say some of the most offensive things known to man. I'd be willing to bet that I even cracked a tasteless joke on 9/11 at some point.
It doesn't mean I lack morals. I won't say those things around people who I feel don't understand my black humor, as my intent is not to offend (more of a running commentary on the state of political correctness). I feel genuine sympathy for those that have been hurt in any tragedy and I have no empathy for those that cause harm on to others.
Now... my point (FINALLY, I know): If someone were to make a judgement of my character by the things that entertained me, they would be so far off the mark it wouldn't even be on the same map. And I'm not the exception to the rule.
(edit: Oh well, while I was writing this you mentioned no more replies.)
BeiTangLang
10-17-2002, 10:24 AM
Originally posted by Badger
What are some of the names of the movies are you referring to. Just curious.
Badger
One off-hand, that I absolutely enjoyed, was Natural born Killers.
It makes you think about alot of things.
P.S.
I have to agree with Lice on his last post.
Chang Style Novice
10-17-2002, 10:30 AM
The only thing NBK ever made me think was "Wow, Oliver Stone can't direct a movie for sh!t."
yours truly,
Chang Style Film Snob.
Badger
10-17-2002, 10:35 AM
Didn't see that one. Can't stand Woody Harrelson.
BeiTangLang
10-17-2002, 01:08 PM
Originally posted by Chang Style Novice
The only thing NBK ever made me think was "Wow, Oliver Stone can't direct a movie for sh!t."
yours truly,
Chang Style Film Snob.
LOL! I liked the Directors cut the best!
Xebsball
10-17-2002, 01:58 PM
too much blah blah blah, i loved to play Carmagedon, GTA and Hitman. I also played with water guns and other variants when i was a kid.
Anyone that got a problem with it can go **** themselves.
It's funny how defensive everyone gets. If you want to make a point, go study the issues, find out facts, sort through psychology studies, and spend time in both communication and philosophy areas of study.
Telling people to go **** themselves is hardly driving your point about being a "nice guy" home.....
I better quit posting on this....
Ryu
Chang Style Novice
10-17-2002, 02:13 PM
Beitanglang -
Don't get me started on "U-Turn" man...:D
Xebsball
10-17-2002, 02:20 PM
Ryu, i am only giving you facts:
I played all of the violent games you can think of, and i liked most of them.
I've never shot anyone, dont feel like it, never touched a real gun, hell -> i havent even ever been on a real fight in my whole life.
I have friends that play this same video games, and here is the great "surprise" you are looking for: NONE OF THEM IS OR HAVE EVER BEEN A CRIMINAL.
Cool, huh?
What? Why am I posting this here now?
I should be pimping my whor.es, selling my crack, stealing some cars, shooting some people right now... all becouse the "video game made me do it"
:rolleyes:
Xeb, did you read anything of what I wrote on this thread?? :(
I must have said a hundred times that I was not advocating the "video game made me do it" garbage. In fact I actually DISAGREE with that statement in a lot of ways. I think people are responsible for their own actions. I have always said that.
Go back and re-read. I do not think "entertainment" makes people do what they don't want to do. Give me a break.
My argument was in the "morality of being entertained by certain concepts" and not that those concepts make you do the physical actions themselves.
I do not think violence in media and video games MAKES people do bad things in real life.
Please don't make me repeat myself again.
Ryu
So you find certain movies and games to be offensive and you can't understand why someone else could be entertained by it? Fair enough. I also have trouble understanding why many people do or like things I don't understand. But I don't think those differences are really telling of their personality. I don't think that blanket statements and generalizations can be made about people who are entertained by the forms of entertainment you personally find objectionable.
You don't like it. You don't understand why other people like it. You have moral issues with it, but honestly can't make any generalizations of the person based on that.
This isn't a philosophical, psychiatric or socialogical question... it's just a difference of opinion.
Hope that made sense.
Oh, and if you're wondering why some people might get defensive... Although I'm sure it's unintentional, you're implying that people that enjoy these type of movies might have some moral ambiguity. It's almost offensive.
It does make sense, and for the most part it may very well be opinion. However, I think you can philosophically and socially prove certain "opinions" more valid then others.
It simply begs the question..... For example. Let's say there is a "video" made where people are randomly kidnapped off the street. The "kidnapping" is a prank, but the people involved do not know, and are truly frightened, etc. Is it moral to be entertained by that?
Likewise, if a film is made where people are victimized in a very frightening way, and the "anti-hero" is supposed to be darkly humorous ........ even though the people are simply "acting" is it moral to be entertained by that concept?
I think not. And philosophically I have delved into the possibility that my "opinion" may be able to be "proved" in certain ways.
That's very hard to do,
and of course it's walking a very fine line as well.......
but the question, at least to me, is still out there.
P.s. I do apologize for coming across as putting people down.... this is why I should probably let this thread die out.
Ryu
You have moral issues with it, but honestly can't make any generalizations of the person based on that.
I do agree with this by the way. And I am sorry if I did so, or came across that way. I cannot make overgeneralizations on people period since human psyche is so complex anyway. :)
Oh well, kay sara sara
I'll let the thread die.
Ryu
Stacey
10-17-2002, 04:03 PM
Ryu, I love ya, but your obsessed with morality and codes.
Comedy and chaos are equally important to keep us from getting attatched to our illusions. However, you do seem authentic and a proponent of clean living, which benefits us all.
Playing these games does raise stress and have a negative effect. I rented the game for 5 days, but sent it back sooner.
jethro
02-19-2006, 05:01 PM
What's fun is Pac-man or the Super-Charged Mrs. Pac-man.
Of course, the National Association of Peed-Off People Against the Cruelty of Inky,Blinky & Clyde don't like me very well....
Screw those games, HM 2 was pretty good, but you need to check out HM Contracts, that is the best game EVER, # 2 would be Deus Ex.
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