Should you ever attack first?

[phantom]

Some martial artists I know believe that when you sense trouble about to happen, you should "hit the firstest with the mostest." But is it ever really justifiable to be the first one to attrack? The only possible situation I can think of where it may be is if somebody is threatening you with a weapon AFTER you hand over your wallet and you have no opportunity to run away. Aside from that, I do not think that it is moral to attack first, and it is also practically asking to be charged with assault and battery. What are your thoughts about this? Thanks in advance.

[Ryu]

Of course.

But to do so requires training, deceiveness, and experience. You have to truly think that an assault is coming, and in hitting first, you are intercepting that assault before it can get off...... (the real "intercepting fist" in action.)

The problem is in the judgment call. You must be morally and legally sure of your actions.

People like Sammy Franco, and Richard Dimitri delve very deeply into these concepts.

Ryu

[gazza99]

Using a pre-emptive strike saved my ass once against two guys, one went to raise his fist after threatening me and I dropped them both. Could I have taken one after he swung at me? Maybe, but I was close to them as I was trying to appologize for my friends rash behavior when they turned on me. Even In the split second I may have used to drop one guy, the other was close enough to hit me at the same time.

Legally if you believe someone is going to attack you, you have the right to defend yourself, if you threaten me, thats assault, technically if you threated my life, and I have "reasonable" belief that you are going to kill me, I can kill you first, provided of course I cant simply get away, plus proving they really intended to kill or hurt you requires witnesses in most cases. Laws on this may vary state to state, but thats how it is in Texas, and Oklahoma at least.

I dont care how fast you are, or what your reaction time is, if you allow someone to get close enough to you and you dont attack them to protect yourself (and your space) , they can get right in your face and hit you before you can stop it.

So are you willing to risk getting yourself hurt or killed (he may have a knife behind his back, the first strike, or followup could be an unforseeable weapon in your side )to "justify" defending yourself, or is a threat and invasion of personal space enough?

For me that is enough, if I try and get away, back down and failing that, tell you to get away from me and you dont, I will attack.

Gary

[guohuen]

Easily 75, 80% of the fights I have been in in my lifetime have involved coming to the aid of others, so attacking first is usually a given.

[Crimson Phoenix]

In the eye of Law, you mustn't.
In the eye of protecting your beloved butt, it's a must.
Do the math.

[Waidan]

If you honestly feel a physical confrontation is unavoidable, take the first shot. Why give the bg the first crack at you? This is particularly true when the stakes are high (i.e. dude's got a weapon, you've got your kid with you, you're outnumbered, etc).

Avoidance is your best option always, but when diplomacy fails you've got to act. No place for morals and honor when lives are at stake. It might sound overly dramatic, but there it is. :)

[Budokan]

Those who didn't attack first are likely to be dead men and cripples. If you think your safety is in danger then yes, you attack, and f*ck the law. Do you want to live or do you want to die and have your girlfriend raped because you're afraid of the consequences of the law, or afraid you might impinge upon someone else's civil liberties?

Do that math.

[yenhoi]

Im with ryu, even though he is a perv.

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by gazza99
Laws on this may vary state to state, but thats how it is in Texas, and Oklahoma at least.

Well, yeah, but in Texas "He needed killin'" is a viable murder defense.

:D

[Former castleva]

Some consider it necessary,some like to counter.
Remember if you get grabbed,pushed,shoved against a wall,rushed violently at,your space blocked...and most importantly...consider these few points:
1.Is he/they near me? (near enough to cause harm)
2.Can I simply move away from the situation? (Can you make sure they are after you by trying to leave maintaining your personal space and seeing their intentions)
3.Are there multiple attackers? (If there are and you can´t escape,consider "first strike" principle as your god given right.If armed,then that is another thing to think of)
4.Is he/they giving threatening,bodily signs? (Raised fists etc. to telegraph an attack should not be taken lightly)
5.Does he/they offend you verbally? (Simply cursing at you and offending verbally does not justify physical defense,at least if you´re out of their reach.Possibly in some specific places verbal threatening can be considered a threat so notable that you´re allowed to act.Take this into consideration,if you´ll have to deal with law later,at least you can tell you were ALSO verbally threatened.If they´re close&especially if armed too,first strike MAY come to play)
6.Are/is he/they offering body language related cues? (While hardened criminals or simply more skilled criminals may be able to remain calm and non-threatening,bodily cues such as pale facial skin,clenched fists or curved fingers or tense body are generally hard to hide.Consider this)

[LEGEND]

You can solve this problem by verbal threats...u ever get in my face...and i'll kill u!

[rubthebuddha]

legend: that's OPPOSITE of what the reality is. if you threaten someone, then you make yourself responsible. under legal terms, saying such a statement is deemed more a threat than a promise. about the best thing to do, IMO, is to repeatedly and loudly tell them you don't want a problem.

but as soon as you know it's going to come to physical violence, hit hard, hit fast and hit first.

[[Censored]]

Yes.

If the cops complain, just tell them you thought he was in the Axis of Evil. ;)

[Shadow Dragon]

Originally posted by LEGEND
You can solve this problem by verbal threats...u ever get in my face...and i'll kill u!

Maybe it should be worded as follows:

"If you get into my face and attack me I will be forced to defend myself which might result in your early demise."
Said with a smile of course.

Lenghty, but legally corrrect.

:D


As for the topic, it depends also on how you are trained. Some arts are more offensive, while others prefer the Opponent to make the first move.

Remember mental actions comes before phsyical one and thus if you can anticipate the attack you can counter it physically before it gets to you.

He might be moving physically first, but your mental action preceded his physical one.

Just some thoughts.

[LEGEND]

How about...if u get in my face...I'll bend u over!!! Can be defined in numerous wayz depending on your culture...hehehe!

[mortal]

Hit first hard and fast if the situation calls for it. It will save the both of you some time and trouble. He'll wake up eventually.

[Mr Punch]

I believe it is both justifiable and your duty to hit first, in the following categories...

people who threaten the existance of you or your family, people who look at you funny, people who look funny, people with mullets, skinheads or combovers, Klan, towelheads, Jews, people wearing crosses, hippies, punks, the police, Communists, Capitalists, young people with unneccessary facial hair, skaters, boarders of any hue, ugly people, good looking people, rich people, soap dodgers, cripples, midgets, ****ed yanks, the demned English, any aboriginals, immigrants, smokers, people who complain about smokers, Santa Claus, anybody masquerading as a human...

Let's get it on! :D

[rogue]

Attacking first can take many forms. I recently had a friend show me some of what he learned at a CDT school. While I'm not convinced the stuff would work in a fight, the controlling techniques were decent and could be used pre-fight stage as a setup to something serious. If the guy isn't too much of a threat you could use them to control him without harm.

[Ging Mo Fighter]

YES!

If someone comes at you in a threatening way, knock them out!

if you feel its needed, point at them and say "dont come any closer or im going to defend myself!"
and really say it like you mean it.

if they persist on advancing towards you, give them %110

[TaoBoy]

In a word - YES.

In more than one word - if you have no alternative but to defend yourself with a pre-emptive attack, do it.

[Kaitain(UK)]

it depends :)

legal ramifications aside - if you wait for someone to attack you then you will probably lose.

Advice I have been given/read:
1) if their face goes very pale then they are about to attack you because their body just flooded with adrenalin and the blood leaves the surface of the skin. If they're red-faced then they are just angry and not at the stage of violence (The Naked Ape I think) - not sure about this one :)

2) try and give yourself enough room so that if you're not sure that you are definitely under threat, you at least have enough room to react. If they persist in invading your space then set a trigger - e.g 'the next time he steps into my space I'm going to hit him. It's a lot easier to react properly if you've got a course of action planned out. - Geoff Thompson I think

3) if there's more than one person, run. If you can't run then start swinging. If you can run but your a big lump like me, start swinging, although the attempt at fleeing might disable them through laughter. - school of common sense, reality and large slow men

[Wilson]

"Strike First, Strike Hard, No Mercy SIR!!!"

The immortal words of the Cobra Khan (sp?). Know what you're going to do and as soon as you sense a flinch in the opponent, you need to go. No waiting. If you wait, you're behind in time and even if you block the first attack, you'll be behind for the second and so on. Tough to get out of that sequence.

[Ludeviews]

Some good posts above this all stating YES which is what I think too.

Over 'ere if a person who has used provaocative words or conduct then makes some immediately threatening move towards the person to whom his words or conduct are directed then he has carried out an assault and you are within the law to use reasonable force in Self Defence.

but it helps to show that you didn't want to fight especially if you are training in Martial Arts if you have to defend your self in court....so make sure you hit and run....

so at least we are semi-safe with pre-emptive striking

above all you should be thinking that this guy wants to hurt, maybe even kill me, he'll do anything so hitting him first should be the least of your worries.

[Ryu]

:mad: FEAR does not exist in this dojo...DOES IT?!