Check this video download out

[firepalm]

Check this out
http://www.beijingwushuteam.com/BeiJing/2001/VCD1trailer.mpg
Comments

[Jeff Liboiron]

BOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRRRRIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNGGGGGGG.

sorry but it's just to reptittive, i mean it's cool that they can do flips n'stuff but i mean come on, it all looks the same. And where's the martial application?

The object is not to hurt someone else, but to stop them from hurting you

[nospam]

Didn't do much for me either.

nospam.

[MasterPhil]

C'mon you guys, can't you see great kung fu when you see it?? "Kung fu" as in its real meaning ie great skill. These athletes show off some moves of the best changchuan you will see and you find it boring? Do you find kungfu movies boring? They're just filled with unrealistic jumps and flips too. Do not confuse wushu with trad. cma. Do not confuse "movie" kung fu with "street" kung fu either.

By the way, just because you can't see the martial application doesn't mean it's not there. It only means that you can't see it. Hung gar sets are filled with "hidden" techniques. Martial applications in sets or forms are not always obvious to the neophyte's eyes.

Enoug ranting, but I have one more for Firepalm. What you did is a bit insulting and looking for trouble. Putting a link for changquan clips in a SOUTHERN forum?? Next time, put up some good hk or gd nanquan clips...! then maybe these guys will be more interested. ;)

ST

Surrounded by chaos, the true taoist laughs...

[firepalm]

Just felt the compulsion to clarify regarding your point of my posting being 'insulting & stirring trouble', not my intention but thank you for your observation as it gives me some food for thought. Truth is, you may be aware I posted on the KF board as well, however as that message board seems to be more centered on BJJ, NHB and so on, whereas the Southern forum seems to stay more centered on actual 'CMA', I was interested to see the response of some of the persons that frequent this forum. It seems to me that the video clip demonstrates the direction CMA is taking, like it or not, I'm just simply interested in the opinions of actual CMA practitioners. Besides I thought it would make for a change of pace to the ongoing CLF 'who's the founder' bickering that's been dragging on & on & on....

[Fu-Pow]

I don't think the guys in that video have testicles. They must have had them removed. :eek:

Fu-Pow
http://www.makskungfu.com/images/Graphics/Choy%20Lay%20Fut%20red.gif

[firepalm]

Perhaps they'll like this one
http://www.bilang.net/videos/Sampler2/Wushu-Sampler.mpg
Some application during the fight routines, alright over the top nonetheless but some... hahaha...
:p

[MasterPhil]

Fu Pow --> It does make you wonder... I can do flat lateral splits without problem. But to jump in the air and fall in a full split with only my precious jewels to soften the fall? That's a whole other ball game! (lol)

FirePalm --> Don't worry, I was just teasing you. I just personally prefer nanquan that's all. I hadn't notice you posted in the general forum also, as there is so much garbage in there I just go over it quickly on my way to the other forums.

"It seems to me that the video clip demonstrates the direction CMA is taking, like it or not" -- I disagree. That is the direction wushu is taking. I don't think it will ever replace trad. cma simply because they are just too different both in their approach and in their goals. Well, maybe in china it will since that seems to be the government's goal but not internationally. Wushu will continue to grow because it is relatively new in the west compared to kf similarly to the ninja fad of the 80's. Did ninjutsu replace karate? No. Did "american" karate replace trad. jap. karate? No. There will always be people interested in the benefits of trad. kungfu training.

ST

Surrounded by chaos, the true taoist laughs...

[lowsweep]

Martial application or not, I personally wouldn't mind being able to do some of that stuff... (not the land-on-your-nuts-splits, though, thanks)

Take the pebble
from my hand

"You ain't the only one
who knows some sh*t"

[firepalm]

Re the direction perhaps I should rephrase that, one of the directions CMA is taking. How I feel it pertains to CMA as a whole, is that those running schools may feel the urge to convert, especially if Wushu is confirmed in the Olympics. Obviously the McKwoons & McDojos won't have the ability to make the conversion as they most likely wouldn't understand or have the skill levels to learn, acquire & eventually teach. I have noticed many trad. CMA schools around North America that have been implementing modern wushu into their cirriculums, either by hiring instructors or the instructor going out to learn these skills. Just an observation... ;)

[MasterPhil]

"I should rephrase that, one of the directions CMA is taking" -- Now we agree :)

"schools may feel the urge to convert" -- I disagree. But how about: "schools may feel the urge to add [wushu to their curriculum]" instead?

"McKwoons & McDojos won't have the ability to make the conversion" -- Don't underestimate their ability to learn, teach, and train crap.

"I have noticed many trad. CMA schools around North America that have been implementing modern wushu into their cirriculums, either by hiring instructors or the instructor going out to learn these skills." -- I noticed the same trend on my side of the continent. But I believe it is only the case with the commercial schools. Why would an instructor suddenly want to add a wushu class in his school? More students, more money. Non-commercial schools/sifus won't convert or add wushu because it serves no purpose ie it doesn't further develop their own art. Like I said, it is a trend. Just like adding a tae-bo class in a karate school. Not that there's anything wrong with that ;)

ST

Surrounded by chaos, the true taoist laughs...

[firepalm]

I must comment on two points...

1) "McKwoons & McDojos won't have the ability to make the conversion" -- Don't underestimate their ability to learn, teach, and train crap." - "Crap"??? I really don't think any Tracy's Kenpo ? Villari's type 'garbage' school is going to be able to replicate decent wushu, I just don't see the typical pot belly franchise McDojo teacher saying here's how you do a butterfly twist to splits or a side ariel into a tornado.

2) "Why would an instructor suddenly want to add a wushu class in his school? More students, more money." - Wushu may well become a financial draw in some ways, but the high level of skills (not necessarily self defence applicable). I know of a coach here that teaches Wushu, he has well over a hundred students but if they (the students) don't meet the club's requirements & criteria they do not advance to the higher levels of training. So well he may be commercially successful he controls quality... that can not be said of a Tracy's / Simon's / Villari type club.

I just do not see a commercial club that likes to keep it easy and simple for their clients trying to get their customers to invest the time & effort into developing the skill levels that sport wushu requires.

One of the clubs in the US that I have noticed that have made a successful (almost subtle) implementation of wushu into their cirriculom is the Wah Lum people. They are commercially successful but also seen as being traditional. Hell Mimi Chan (Chan Pui's daughter) spent a summer in Beijing, China doing Wushu. :D

[TIger Hand]

Wushu c'mon........

I have one comment about this video.

"where's the beef?"

[firepalm]

A traditional style friend of mine used to say of he hard line traditionals that could not accept wushu for what it is, 'They don't like what they can't do!' :o

[MasterPhil]

About point#1: I agree they probably won't be able to replicate "decent" wushu. But to the idiot's eyes, good wushu looks the same as bad wushu. Most people who are beginning in the ma are not able to see the difference between "good" and "bad". Heck, some 20+ years kf instructors still can't! A trick they can use is to simply teach the basic stuff they "can" do and remove the rest. I once saw a shaolin#6 performed by a so-so guy. It looked very similar to the one I learned except he had no double-jumpkicks or tornado kicks in it! When I asked my sifu why their version didn't have those jumping/flying kicks, he simply responded it was because they couldn't do it. He explained to me that some schools/instructors were taking the difficult parts out of their forms because either they or their students couldn't do them! It didn't stop them from teaching the sets and performing them at demonstrations though. Fools...

Point#2 "I know of a coach here that teaches Wushu, he has well over a hundred students but if they (the students) don't meet the club's requirements & criteria they do not advance to the higher levels of training. So well he may be commercially successful he controls quality" -- I think that is a false argument. That specific instructor can afford to have quality standards because of the large number of students. But, the economic reality dictates that, if the number of students decreases, "the club's requirements & criteria" will decrease proportionately to retain their students.

"I just do not see a commercial club that likes to keep it easy and simple for their clients trying to get their customers to invest the time & effort into developing the skill levels that sport wushu requires." -- You don't understand. The "commercial club that likes to keep it easy and simple for their clients" won't. They will only develop poor skill levels in wushu because they can't do better. Same thing in trad. kf. Poorly skilled instructors produce poorly skilled students.

It sounds to me like you were lucky enough to only see high-level wushu athletes. I have seen both high and low-level and believe me, there is really bad wushu out there as well. It is just like kf. Young students get told to not be too hard on themselves and just come to club practice. They, in turn, think their instructor is the best there is next to jet li.

Of course, we are over-generalizing. I'm sure we could find good and bad examples. I haven't seen their stuff but, as you said, the wah lum temple seems like a good example of a successful addition of wushu to their curriculum.

As for your last comment: "They don't like what they can't do!", I'm sure it is true for some people but not all. A lot of people will simply put down what they don't understand or fear or cannot do themselves. But not all... :)

ST

Surrounded by chaos, the true taoist laughs...

[TIger Hand]

Modern wushu-

Yes i admit, i despise it. An it is not because i hate what i can't do. Besides why would i want to do 2 cartwheels and then back flip onto my stomach?

I hate wushu because it is not kungfu, and before everyone get technical about "how you can have kungfu in everything stuff"; i mean kungfu as in traditional FIGHTING arts. I done some wushu and i have seen lots of wushu people train, and it is not about fighting. Wushu is the stuff the gov't of china sells and exports to the rest of the world, ie.Olympics. An it is wasting the talent of these fine atheletes into something that can amount to nothing more than a fine acrobatic show.

Being a trad.CMA I know the possibilities that proper training in kungfu, coupled with natural talent can produce. Imagine the beijing kungfu team, supported and funded by the gov't, each with special skills that some of us spend a lifetime trying to achieve, some never because of constraints of modern life (iron shirt, iron palm, dim mak, golden bell...etc). Would these NHB, bjj people keep saying kungfu is useless?? Would these skills only be regulated to the very, very few to see? and for most of us mere legends?

That is why i despise modern wushu. It is because of wasted talent. UNLESS, you like doing acrobatic movements that has martial flavor. If that is the case then I wish you all the best in your training.

But I think the gov't of china is doing a great disservice to her own unique fighting style.

[firepalm]

Modern wushu is just a different direction for martial ART, period. China is also promoting the fighting side ie; san shou/da. However to what you said about wushu being only good for acrobatic shows it depends where you place value! You acquire gold bell shield, iron shirt, etc... so what??? A lot of this stuff is antiquated & often unhealthy (if done incorrectly) and what can you do with it ultimately? Side shows maybe? Flip side a lot of wushu athletes in China are actually moving onto very lucrative careers working in the Asian film industry. So there's some thing outside of 'acrobatic shows'. If & when wushu goes to the Olympics then chances are wushu will become much like gymnastics where it will be possible to run schools on the same professional level as gymnastic schools.
Just my thoughts don't take em too serious... :D

[dooder]

I'm glad those links we're posted, thanks. My teacher teaches a mixed curiculem and does teach wushu and the beijing wu shu team certainly is a amazing, but those we're just the highlights to sell the video and I'm sure there's less flashy but equally awsome stuff on that video. We don't do all those techniques in fighting and some of it is just acrobatics without much applicaton (buterflys, flips) but those skills have values that transfer over to fighting. Some techniques are to train certain skills like the explosive power you learn from doing jump kicks. cool stuff