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Kevin Barkman
02-13-2000, 05:24 AM
Greetings Short Hand Brothers!

There was a previous post about Lam Yiu Kwai, Lao Sui, and Cheung Lai Cheun all hanging out in the same teahouse in Hong Kong which sent me into hours of research trying to find connections between these three in the resources I have. I found out that all three were born in the "Wai Yeung" village/province of Guangdong. This is in the East River area (Tung Fung) - and close to Lau Fou Shen Mountain. I have been unable to locate this site to determine its exact location (through atlas's / internet) and population size. Knowing the pop. would help in either supporting my theory or detracting from it.

It appears that all three were born at the same time as well (LYK in 1876, CLC in 1880). I speculate Lao Sui was born around 1878, when I do the math subtracting various dates posted in his life 1878 - 1942?)

LYK and CLC were known as "the Two Tigers of East River" but no mention of Lao Sui. Also, from the speculation out there, the Lam Family studied from the "Hai Fung" Monk (who IKF names as "Huang Nian Jiao). This same Monk taught a man named "Liang Hua Su Ren" who taught CLC. Of course, there is the Monk named Tai Yuk as well (at Lau Fou Shen).

From the magazine articles out there on Chu Gar (written by Gene Chen and Paul Whitrod), they say Lao Sui learned his Art from a Wong Fook Gao (who was also born in Wai Yeung). However, I believe the source said that all three also learned from a "Chung Yel Jung" - the Poisen Snake, in Hong Kong. Is there dispute in the S. Mantis community over who Lao Sui learned from? It seems that Lum Sang is not connected with Lao Sui's lineage. Much of the info I have comes from the huge Southern Praying Mantis historical collaboration on the Net (by F. Blanco). I am wondering about this connection. Also, I am wondering about the possibility of Chung Yel Jung being called "the poisen snake" and Lung Ying's top form (one of) being called Poisen Snake Flicks / Hides Tongue.

Therefore (to sum), we have 3 kung-fu brothers, with a possible 4 shared teachers. The fact that Lung Ying does not mention Wong or Chung, to me suggests either a desire to seperate, or a completely seperate lineage.

Anyway, this is probably about as interesting as the dust balls in my closet to just about everyone except 10 people out there! Personally, I can't get enough of it!

By the way - for all you die hard Bak Meirs and Dragoners, Chow Fook's student in Hong Kong (CS Tang) has written a book on Lung Ying Mor-Kiew, which is now printed and can be purchased through their web-site (go to HK Chinese Martial Arts Association site). Haven't seen it yet - just ordered it! Looks awesome!

Cheers and Happy (Chinese) New Year to You!

Smashing Bridge Kevin

David
02-14-2000, 10:12 PM
Does Chung Yel Jung mean poison snake? Chow Gar has a pole form called poison snake.

Gene Chen and Paul Whitrod have never mentioned Chung Yel Jung in any articles I've seen.
There is dispute over a couple of things regarding Lau Sui. One is who he trained under - which is disputed by various of Jook Lum. The other is his marital relationship to the Ip's which was erroneously described by Gene Chen in an article and then spread all over.

There's more of interest in what you say but you wrote so compactly that it'll take a while to extract all you say.

Kevin Barkman
02-14-2000, 11:04 PM
Hi David - thanks for replying!

Could you tell me what the theories are out there about who Lao Sui learned from? Is he connected in any way to Lum Sang? Did Lao Sui learn most of his Art on the South Mainland, or in Hong Kong?

I think "Poisen Snake" translates as Dok Se - apparently, this was CYJ's nickname.

I heard that Yip Sui married Lao Sui's daughter - is that not correct? Just curious from your comment.

Its funny how these common histories are only 50-60 years old but its like a thick fog has descended down on this period, and no-one seems to know anything about it! Makes me all the more curious!

Cheers - Kevin

02-15-2000, 07:36 AM
Kevin

Yip Sui never married Lau Soi's daughter. And his wife pass away last year.

Wilson

02-15-2000, 08:11 AM
Sorry just a few points to follow.

Lum Yil Gruw, came to HK during the 2ndWW. And stayed and teached for a few yrs, then he came back to HK to settle at 1958.
Cheung Lai Chung settled in HK with his 3 sons only at late 40s. Although he has been to HK many times before and a close friend of Lau Soi.
According to a publishment made by the "Mo Lum Chow Bo" (Wu-Lin weekly) in the 70s. Dai Yuk Sim Si and Jook Fai Wan are Si Hing Dai and they both teaches the art of Mor Kui. That's why the similarities of Mor Kui in both Bak Mei and Lung Ying.
Lau Soi cames to HK during the 1910s where he started teachings in Shar Gay Van in HK island. His birth place is called Kwoon Yum Kwok in Wai Yeung, Canton.

Just hope these information may help in your research.
Wilson

Kevin Barkman
02-15-2000, 09:13 PM
Hi Wilson - thanks very much for sharing this information! It does indeed help!

I think its like putting a giant puzzle together, and trying to find the pieces which fit together. I only have a small part of the puzzle put together, but every new piece opens new possibilities!

Anyway, your reply raised two more questions in my mind....first, is "Kwoon Yum Kwok" a village in "Wai Yeung" Province? Do you or anyone else know why I can't find it on any map/atlas of Southern China? Is this a Hakka transliteration? Is there a Mandarin name for this?

Second (and more interesting!), when you say the "Art of Mor-Kui", is it your impression that this was the name of the Art before they were called by the newer session names? This may be common knowledge to everyone but me, but I'd greatly appreciate any insights into this!

Many thanks! kevin

02-16-2000, 04:15 PM
Kevin

You're welcome. First, Kwoon Yum Kwok, is cantonese. Not sure about the Mandarain. Secondly, Kwoon Yum Kwok is an area just like Bok Law for LYG in Wei Yeung, and Wei Yeung is in Kong Don which I think is what you meant by province.
What I meant by art of Mor Kui is not trying to impose it as a style. It is a name of sets that share by BM and LY, which are very identical.
Wilson

02-18-2000, 12:40 AM
Now see? THIS is the cool stuff. Breathes life into the people who are otherwise just pictures on the wall. Before you ask, no, I don't study Hakka Kuen of any sort, but I've always found it fascinating, if a little hard to locate. But the histories of the martial arts and which teachers knew each other and how that may have influenced the arts is very interesting.



It's also nice to see some civilized discussion on these boards for a change. Thanks.



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Nothing beats the Sizzling Rice Fist and the Hot and Sour Palm

Lau
02-23-2000, 05:18 PM
Hi,

I just purchased a book from Hong Kong about Lung Ying Mor Kiu. I think it has a lot of info about the history of dragon style and maybe Pak Mei in it. It has information in English, but most of it is in Chinese which I can't read.............. I will try to find someone to translate it for me.

Or has someone on this board allready read this book? If so, can you please tell me more about the information in chinese in this book? (It can be found on http://www.go.to/cstang )

Regards, Lau

wisdom mind
03-13-2000, 05:26 AM
is Pak Mei considered Hakka style?

thanks for this answer and ...
good post with info on CLC. Thanks

03-14-2000, 03:27 AM
Hakka Kung Fu consists of 3 styles Tong Long, Loong Yan and Pak Mei. And Tong Long divided into 4 branches Chow Gar, Chu Gar, Jook Lum and Tit Au( Iron Ox).


Wilson

wisdom mind
03-14-2000, 07:47 PM
Thank you !

Anyone know of resources on Hakka KF or more specifically the life of my Sigung Cheung Lai Chun?
(besides the book: Pak Mei Kung Fu by H.B. Un?)

Thanks again.

04-03-2000, 09:45 AM
I'm not too sure of the 'true' facts on the histories of Hakka Kung Fu, but this is what I have been related to by my sifu. Apparntly, hakka people, not being too popular with the rest of the Chinese wondered around China as nomads.
Being such, there was a need for self defence. Thus Hakka Kung Fu was born.

Southern Mantis, Pak Mei and whatever all came from the Hakka people. So if you like, they are all just different parts of the same whole.

Anyway, now to my Si-Tai-Gung Lao Shui and Si-Gung Ip shui. No, Lao Shui had no children of his own. But yes, Ip Shui and Lao Shui are related by some way that I've just forgotten, if you want to know how they are related, e-mail me, I'll ask sifu in the morning.

From what I here (note, I practise Chow Gar so this could be bias)... Lao Shui had many students. One of which is the grandmaster of Chu Gar. Apparently, the name Chow in hakka sounds very similar to Chu, so this Chu guy changed the actual spelling giving himself the title of grandmaster. Jook Lum is also another variant of the system... Obviously, this all happened straight after Lao Shui's death.

Note, the only system of southern mantis which has no link to Chow Gar in Iron Ox. The style was/is completely seperate from Chow Gar. But note this also, In the Chow Gar system...A form from the Iron Ox system is taught... So there has been trade in techniques but the origins differ.

Also, does anyone actually do Chu Gar? I have a few questions on the way you guy's do your Sam Bo Jin form....

mantis108
04-11-2000, 06:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kevin Barkman:
Greetings Short Hand Brothers!

There was a previous post about Lam Yiu Kwai, Lao Sui, and Cheung Lai Cheun all hanging out in the same teahouse in Hong Kong which sent me into hours of research trying to find connections between these three in the resources I have. I found out that all three were born in the "Wai Yeung" village/province of Guangdong. This is in the East River area (Tung Fung) - and close to Lau Fou Shen Mountain. I have been unable to locate this site to determine its exact location (through atlas's / internet) and population size. Knowing the pop. would help in either supporting my theory or detracting from it.

I remember it was said the Lum and Cheung were cousins.

It appears that all three were born at the same time as well (LYK in 1876, CLC in 1880). I speculate Lao Sui was born around 1878, when I do the math subtracting various dates posted in his life 1878 - 1942?)

LYK and CLC were known as "the Two Tigers of East River" but no mention of Lao Sui. Also, from the speculation out there, the Lam Family studied from the "Hai Fung" Monk (who IKF names as "Huang Nian Jiao). This same Monk taught a man named "Liang Hua Su Ren" who taught CLC. Of course, there is the Monk named Tai Yuk as well (at Lau Fou Shen).

It was also said that Lum and Cheung learned some forms or a system called Sam Bo Tyui from a traveller called Hoi Fung Si. So, I believe Lum and Cheung are Kung Fu fanatics who would pursuit as many arts as they could to achieve personal best.

From the magazine articles out there on Chu Gar (written by Gene Chen and Paul Whitrod), they say Lao Sui learned his Art from a Wong Fook Gao (who was also born in Wai Yeung). However, I believe the source said that all three also learned from a "Chung Yel Jung" - the Poisen Snake, in Hong Kong. Is there dispute in the S. Mantis community over who Lao Sui learned from? It seems that Lum Sang is not connected with Lao Sui's lineage. Much of the info I have comes from the huge Southern Praying Mantis historical collaboration on the Net (by F. Blanco). I am wondering about this connection. Also, I am wondering about the possibility of Chung Yel Jung being called "the poisen snake" and Lung Ying's top form (one of) being called Poisen Snake Flicks / Hides Tongue.

Lung Ying's forms are basically in 3 stages. From first form "16 moves" to the highest 7 routines of Plum Flower fist. Poison Snake Flicks Tongue is an intermediate form. It is one of the five original forms which Lum learned from Ta Yuk sim si.

Therefore (to sum), we have 3 kung-fu brothers, with a possible 4 shared teachers. The fact that Lung Ying does not mention Wong or Chung, to me suggests either a desire to seperate, or a completely seperate lineage.

It seems that Lum and Cheung shared many comment background yet develope into two individual systems. It is quite common to meet a Lung Ying and Bak Mei Student. My Sifu Chow Fook is an example.

Anyway, this is probably about as interesting as the dust balls in my closet to just about everyone except 10 people out there! Personally, I can't get enough of it!

By the way - for all you die hard Bak Meirs and Dragoners, Chow Fook's student in Hong Kong (CS Tang) has written a book on Lung Ying Mor-Kiew, which is now printed and can be purchased through their web-site (go to HK Chinese Martial Arts Association site). Haven't seen it yet - just ordered it! Looks awesome!

Great, thanks for the info.

Cheers and Happy (Chinese) New Year to You!

Smashing Bridge Kevin

[/quote]

mantis108
04-11-2000, 06:30 AM
Hi Wilson,

I wonder if you are a Lung Ying and Bai Mei brother. If you would share some of your views on the systems. I'm very interested in contacting students of these systems. Please feel free to contact me at sifu1@internorth.com

mantis108

05-26-2000, 12:41 PM
In our Hakka tradition there are 3 most important thing. "Ming Gung", "Shen Gong" and " Kay Lun". Ming Gong is Gong Fu, Shen Gong is spiritual art and Kay Lun is unicorn dance.
As far as the gong fu is spreading extremely fast to the west, the others seems to have been very slow or not even known. Which is a shame. Culture and traditional respect has a very important role in our tradition which we hope that will ring a bell to the others.
Apart from the well known BaK Mei, Lung Ying Mor Kiu and Tong Long. There are actually a lot other more gong fu styles in Hakka tradition. e.g. Dill Gar Gao, Lau Gar Gao and Lee Gar etc. Which have heavily influence the modern three main streams in some ways. But unfortuenately, due to secretacy in passing on, which was a unwritten rule, all these styles are lesser known or even die out..


regards

Wilson
http://www.southernmantis.co.uk

mantis108
05-26-2000, 11:22 PM
Hi Wilson,

I hear you. The spirit of sharing is not easy to cultivate. Personally, I find the Lung Ying and Bak Mei even Chow Gar Tong Long are more open to the idea of sharing information. I know GM Lam and GM Cheung shared students. It's the quest for knowledge that they were interested in. I think that their example inspired their lineages of the sharing spirit. But to be able to get into the spirit, one must empty his or her cup first. In these two styles, there are poems and couplets that remind the students to be humble and learn from others. I feel this is a good tradition to pass on the next generations.

Good thoughts, Wilson. The 3 important things are just excellent.

Mantis108

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Contraria Sunt Complementa

[This message has been edited by mantis108 (edited 05-28-2000).]

05-27-2000, 09:50 AM
Mantis108

Thanks for the comments. So please to hear replies like that.
Shame that in actual life, there are still plenty of masters that won't teach the art fully. I personally met a number of them, one is a Sifu in a village in NT HK. He has always be known of his great skills, but unfortunately he doesn't teach people not with his same family name, so even you are Hakka but not in the same village, you are considered as outsiders. Shame isn't it, and there are so many people tryin all sorts of way to become friends with him and try to learn from him...but he would turn you down when it comes to his teaching...a Si Sok of mine known him for 20 yrs now, they kind of grown up together..still..he wouldn't teach his skills to him...well..that's just some real facts that is happening in modern days Hakka society.

best regards

Wilson
http://www.southernmantis.co.uk

mantis108
05-27-2000, 11:31 PM
Hi Wilson,

I used to live in the NT area in HK that's how I met Sifu Chow Fook. I know a lot of the NT village folk moved oversea most to Europe. I think that's is the connection there? I'm glad we share same view on the subject.

About the Hakka arts. A Dragon brother, Kevin Barkman, and I are wondering of the origin of a Dragon form called "Lung Ying Ying Jow" (Dragon Style Eagle Claw). It has quite a bit of clawing, twisting motions. I tend to believe this set is more a "Sarm Bo Tyui" system form , I seem to be the only one on this. Is there a Claw Form, Chin Na, or grappling form in your style? It may shed some light on how much these styles might have shared some major common roots.

If you don't feel comfortable disclosing information in public, may be you don't mind e-mailing me? If you don't want to disclose info, that's fine, too. I understand and I'll respect your school's protocal.

It would be very helpful to all Hakka arts, IMO.

Thanks

Mantis108


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05-28-2000, 07:16 AM
mantis108

Greetings. Excellent, so lived in "Sun Guy"? Where abouts? As I know that area quite well. Very good to hear people from HK in here.
In regarding to your question, yes, I am aware of the form "Yang Chou" in Loong Yin. Well, after all these years, it is hard to trace back where that form comes from as since Lum Yiu Gru has trained under a number of Sifus. Yes, in our style we do have a number of Cum La technique, but not as a form as you put it (not in my knowledge only). The Cum La techs are very similar to Bak Mei's techs, and yet there can only be that X amount of hands motion due to short hand styles anyway.
Have you heard of Loong Yin Mok Keun Pai? It is a system create by Lum Chon Wai, the son of Lum Yum Tong (One of Tung Kong Sarm Fu, Three Tigers in East River, close friend of Lum Yiu Gru). He has been teaching this art for a very long time, I've also heard he got students in USA too, as he went over to teach in the States for a yr or two. This guy is perhaps one of the guy that is still alive and know so much about Lum Yiu Gru's earlier history.

best regards

Wilson
http://www.southernmantis.co.uk

[This message has been edited by Wilson (edited 05-28-2000).]

mantis108
05-28-2000, 08:34 AM
Hi Wilson,

It's a small world after all. LOL...

I was born in Shan Sheung, NT, HK. You Know "the boarder town."

Sifu Chow Fook was a resident of Shan Sheung. He had good relationship with the surrounding villages. We used to train in one of the villages call "Tak Bo". They have something like a mini village hall not the ancestrial hall though. I think it's called "Heung Kung Sor". The village youths would gather there and practice. I had some good times there. Thanks to their generousity (they sponsored a Lion Dance Team upon Sifu's recommendation), I got to learn the Lion Head.

Great info. Who's the third Tiger? Loong Ying Mo Keun Pai? I have heard of Lum Yuk Tong but I have no clue about his style nor his son's. It should be interesting to contact students from that system, don't you think? There are certainly many interesting Hakka tales. Would you care to share some?

I spend most of my time practicing techniques and all, and seldom paid attention to stories at "Yum Cha" (tea after practice). To be honest, Sifu and his peers used to speak in Hakka dialect. Most of the history I got was from printed matter. On some ocassion, Sifu would relate one or two things in his Hakka accented Cantonese. Like the one about "Yau Kung Moon" broken off from Bak Mei. I wish I had spent more time with him. Well, it's a bit late since he passed away.

Sorry get carried away. Hope you are well and keep up the good work /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Mantis108

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05-29-2000, 01:41 AM
Mantis108

Hi! Yes, Tak Po Chun, I always thought that is consider as in "Fun Lan", so it is in Shun Sui, as I sometimes get pass Tak Po by mini bus.
Anyway, back to the gong fu, yes, Dong Kong Sarm Fu, are Lung Ying Lum Yiu Gru, Mok Gar Lum Yum Tong and Bak Mei Cheung Lai Chun.
Yeah, I've also heard the same tales about the Yau Gong Moon...
Oh, so you train in the Chun Gong Sor under Sifu Chow Fook, and Tang is your Si Hing then. My Si Gong also teaches in the Chun Gong Sor in Shatin, Pai Tau Chun. Small world heh.
I did recieve an e.mail from Robert in regarding to Lum Yum Tong's son teaching, which he mentioned the person called Steve Martin to me, and have a URL, if you want it I can post it here for you, so you can contact them.
Anyway, take care and keep up the good work.

best regards

Wilson
http://www.southernmantis.co.uk

mantis108
05-29-2000, 06:54 AM
Hi Wilson,

Is it in Fun Lan? You may be right. When you are a kid, Shan Shui could be the whole world. Also, I am bad at direction.

I train at Sifu's risdence and Tak Po Chun Kung Sor. Sifu loved to teach Kung Fu to anyone who's willing and able. I learn this from him. Currently I'm teaching non Chinese students just like he would.

Is it C.S. Tang? I don't think he would remember me.

Steve Martin's site is Sojourpast, right? I visited that once. Kevin Barkman who is a Dragon brother sent me some info concerning Lung Ying and Mok Gar. I have finish the whole thing yet.

Cool about your Sigong, I shall visit your site again.

BTW, is there a technique you favor and why?

Until next time.

Mantis108

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05-30-2000, 03:35 AM
Mantis108

Nice to hear from you. About the techniques, not in particular, as we are more into the the study of gongs and different tye of power development a lot more than techniques, as the majority of the techniques can be performed better and more effective with the proper use of different Gen. Also through training the different type of gongs, the body shape will change so much that enables a better structure for techniques to be performed.
Well, any thoughts about that, as in Lung Ying there are quite a few gongs that has passed down from Lum Yiu Gru too, that gives the great power behind the Lung Ying style.
How much emphasis do you put in those fields?

best regards

Wilson
http://www.southernmantis.co.uk

mantis108
05-30-2000, 05:15 AM
Hi Wilson,

To be honest, I learn very little from Sifu. It was my fault mostly. I was too whimpy and too stupid to learn the real stuff. One thing he did show me or wanted me to do was the balance myself over 2 horse bench (with one supporting the shoulders (head if you are advanced) and the other supports the ankles). It is for the teeth clinching Ging and for overall body power. I suppose had he given it to me incrementally, I would have practice it. but he just put me there and say "now practice and clinch your teeth". I just could stand it. So he basically let me to it from then on. Now I understand what he must have felt. Because the kids in my class complain just the same way I did. I wouldn't "make" them do the hard work neither. Other than that I went through the usual toughening and power building stages. My favorite training routine is the finger jab, cross, double push and pull right after strength training to losen up the whole body,
Or should I say to "Fong Ging"?

Mantis108

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mantis108
06-06-2000, 02:24 AM
Hi Wilson,

It's been kinda quiet around here. You mentioned Ming Gong, Shen Gong and Kay lun. Would you like to share some thoughts on Shen Gong and Kay Lun. Especially Kay Lun, I think Meltdawn is learn the musical intruments with the Kay Lun. This will help other who wish to know more about Hakka traditions. Will you give this a go?

Mantis108

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Monkey
06-06-2000, 03:07 AM
This Kay Lun, is it a performance of a dance or is it a dancing martial art ?

djh
06-15-2000, 06:58 AM
Hi guys,

I am a student of Chow Gar Tong Long and am always on the lookout for any sources of information on the history of the style or the Hakka people. Can you guys point me in the direction of any references (english)?

Sorry I have nothing to contribute to your conversation yet (hopefully later after a bit more reading).

Cheers

mantis108
06-16-2000, 10:46 PM
Hi,

Monkey,

Kay Lun is unicorn dance which is a dance that uses martial arts skills. Above all it is also to show the cultural side of the performing team. Protocol must be observe at all times while performing. If it is done improperly, the Kwoon, the Sifu would lost "face".

djh,

Thanks for the interest in the Hakka styles, I will revive the Share Hakka stories thread for you. I look forward to you input.

Mantis108

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mantis108
06-18-2000, 05:45 AM
Hi djh,

Tried to revive the share Hakka history, but it didn't work. So if you are interested just set the day setting on the forum to 75 days. It is in the second page.

Mantis108

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mantis108
08-02-2000, 12:09 AM
I was reading something about Sun Lu Tang who had cross trained in the three major internal arts - XingYi, Taiji and Pagua.

Here is a comment of his:

Internal styles' boxing strive to seek the center*, Taiji devoids the center, Pagua morph the center, XingYi straighten the center.

* center has both physical and metaphysical senses to it.

My thoughts on this is that should Lung Ying practitioners want to cross train with an internal art Taiji is a fine choice since both are circular in nature. As for Bak Mei the choice would be XingYi since both arts are linear in nature.

In Sun's book "Xing Yi Quan Xue - the study of Form-Ming Boxing", there seems to have a strong Taoist theorectical and philosophical orientation which suits Bak Mei's Taoist connection quite well. The Trinity and Five Fists (Wu Xing) worth investigating and studying.

Just thought that I share this.

Peace to all

Mantis108

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Lung Ying
08-02-2000, 12:31 AM
Mantis108,

Very very true. I find that Tai Chi has a major effect on the way I practice Lung Ying. My moves are much more fluent and I feel much more coordinated. I told my classmates to take advantage of our Sifu's knowledge of Wu style Tai Chi, but alot of them think it's worthless- a serious misconception! It's funny, but when I started Tai Chi I was surprised at how difficult it was compared to other kung fu (not to say Kung Fu is easy). I'm enjoying Tai Chi's benefits as much as Lung Ying.

I wonder why Sun Lu Tang mentioned Lung Ying and Bak Mei? Was he an expert in these style's? Also, where did you read that article? I like to gather as much info on anything related to Lung Ying since there's not alot of info out there.

Thanks /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

mantis108
08-02-2000, 01:14 AM
Hi Lung Ying,

Sun Lu Tang didn't comment on other styles other than the three internal arts. I mention this largely because of my interest in the 3 IA. Lung Ying (so is Bak Mei) as you may have heard from your Sifu is from external to internal. So a good understanding of the IA would be most helpful. According to Sun's comment, Taiji devoid of the center means that you don't have to regroup and strike. You can strike at any one given point. This is not unlike Lung Ying's stiking philosophy - you don't retrack your extended tools to regroup and return fire. The reason I thought XingYi suits Bak Mei well is that I tried to incooperate circular coiling and spiraling motion in BM but it doesn't seem to work that well (less ferocity). When I applied "straightened" my center in theory and perform Bak Mei, it seems to be very natural and powerful.

Hope this will clarify for you. BTW, what kind of info are you looking for? Can I help?
You are welcome to email me.

Mantis108




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Lung Ying
08-02-2000, 01:48 AM
Hi Mantis108,

Thanks for your kind offer. I'm not looking for anything in particular but I try to collect any articles, writeups or books related to Lung Ying for my own reference. I'm sure you realize as I do that there isn't nearly as much books and articles out there about Lung Ying as there is about say, Northern Mantis. I have to say that I do see alot of stuff on Bak Mei.
Alot of the articles my Sifu has are from Chinese newspapers ,magazines, and they are all of course, in Chinese, so I can't read them, though I would like to get them translated someday.
If you by chance have any really good articles on Lung Ying that you would like to share I would love to have a look at them. Please let me know, it's much appreciated!

Thanks again /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Kevin Barkman
08-02-2000, 07:23 AM
Hello - I may be playing the devil's advocate to this question, but if you are strong in one respect, shouldn't you try to balance the other? In this way, Bak Mei Compliments Lung Ying by balancing the circular with the linear. Any other art practiced to "flesh out" or round out Dragon or Bak Mei will be beneficial up to a limited extent - but no more. Any additional study will gain a student more of a "liberal arts" education, which will give them a greater understanding of human movement and fighting. How many "electives" does one need in their pursuit of excellence?

Specific to this question - I have never known a Dragon or Bak Mei Sifu who was not well respected in an additional art or two as well - mainly in Tai Gig.

However, this pursuit of additional knowledge (aside from Tai Gig) will give them little in the way of new skills, or understanding of their own art.

How many people have invested the time to master their own art to its greatest potential? I would speculate maybe 5% or so, maybe less.

Good Question - worthy of futher speculation!

Cheers - Smashing Bridge Kevin

Lau
08-02-2000, 02:06 PM
Hi Guys,

I've got a small remark regarding Pak Mei. I only train Pak Mei but I think Pak Mei can benefit from both Xing Yi and Tai Chi. But imho (and with my limited knowledge of other arts) Xing Yi is close to Pak Mei so there isn't much extra to learn from it. I think it will be 'more of the same' to practice. While Tai Chi stimulates the chi flow in the body and opens up the energy channels for you.

So while both arts are great I think that Tai Chi offers more 'extra's ' on top of the Pak Mei training than Xing Yi does. But once again , in my humble opinion.

If only I had the time....... Regards, Lau

wisdom mind
08-02-2000, 06:49 PM
I too only practice Pak Mei, at this time I cannot comment on the subject-at-hand due to inexperience with the other arts mentioned...but...LAU who is your sifu?

Mine is Sifu Master Man Kwong Fong in NYC.

Lung Ying
08-02-2000, 07:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kevin Barkman:
Hello - I may be playing the devil's advocate to this question, but if you are strong in one respect, shouldn't you try to balance the other? In this way, Bak Mei Compliments Lung Ying by balancing the circular with the linear. Any other art practiced to "flesh out" or round out Dragon or Bak Mei will be beneficial up to a limited extent - but no more. Any additional study will gain a student more of a "liberal arts" education, which will give them a greater understanding of human movement and fighting. How many "electives" does one need in their pursuit of excellence?

Specific to this question - I have never known a Dragon or Bak Mei Sifu who was not well respected in an additional art or two as well - mainly in Tai Gig.

However, this pursuit of additional knowledge (aside from Tai Gig) will give them little in the way of new skills, or understanding of their own art.

How many people have invested the time to master their own art to its greatest potential? I would speculate maybe 5% or so, maybe less.

Good Question - worthy of futher speculation!

Cheers - Smashing Bridge Kevin[/quote]

Hi Kevin,

That's a good point. Lung Ying and Bak Mei are sister systems and were created by the same people, so many masters are skilled in both systems. In Lung Ying, we do a form called "exercise form" which develops waist power and internal strength, I was told that this is one of the first forms in Bak Mei, so you can see the connection.
So many Kung fu schools are complimenting their system with Tai Chi practice(even Karate schools!) so I think that it is an excellent compliment for anything. I not an expert on Xing Yi, but if it teaches relaxation and cultivation of internal power, it can only be a bonus for all styles.

Peace /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

mantis108
08-02-2000, 10:58 PM
Hi All,

Nice to have shorthand brothers reponding which is one of the reason why I wrote this thread since we haven't been communicating much lately. (internal monologue)"Where is our Shorthand sister?"

Other reasons are

1) I realize that LY and BM are from external to internal. I wonder what do we all do to get to the internal?

2) Internal arts often are said to start soft and end hard. Wouldn't you think it's a good way to round out your practice?

3) Also, Kevin, I think you've met Master Cheung Kwok Tai (Lam Woon Kwong's lineage) who does "Lup Hop Baat Fa" (water boxing?)
What would his views be? And your impression of him and his practice like?

It is always nice to know where are we all heading to better ourselve. Don't you agree?

Peace, thanks for share more of your thoughts

Mantis108

------------------
Contraria Sunt Complementa

wisdom mind
08-02-2000, 11:08 PM
If Pak Mei and Xingi are both linear in nature, wouldn't the Practitioner wish to round themselves off by learning a more circular style? i really dont know! please give a thought or 2 /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

mantis108
08-03-2000, 12:41 AM
Hi Wisdom Mind,

Glad that you ask. My take on this is like pairing food with wine. You can go with pairing similar flavour or constrast the flavour. The objective is obviously to enhance the flavour without introducing a third element thereby disturbing the harmony of the pairing. The environment which you are in can provide some directions of your development.

Just a thought

Mantis108

------------------
Contraria Sunt Complementa

Kevin Barkman
08-05-2000, 04:31 AM
Hi Mantis 108,

Sifu Cheung does indeed do Water Boxing, as well as Yang Tai Chi. He has several videos out on the subject. He is not the only one, I believe Sifu Steve Martin also includes Liu Ho Baat Fa in his curriculum.

From what I can tell, the practice of these internal arts makes the dragon smoother, and softer. This is in contrast to the harder and crisper styles of LY out there. One emphasis more on yin, one more on yang. However, don't mistake the yin for weaker! Sifu Cheung has legs like lamposts - immoveable! What do they call it - iron wrapped in cotton?

Sifu (Mark) Chan on the other hand specilizes in generating maximimum power, and "killing the guy" real quick. His chi sau is deceptively soft too - but if his hands touch you, you're "dead already"!

Small variations - same goal!

By the way Lung Ying - you mentioned you do a basic "exercise form" similiar to Bak Mei (?). Is this called Sup Luk Dong or Bo Bo Toy? Could you describe this a bit more?

Thanks! Kevin

Octavius
09-19-2000, 07:05 PM
Hi all, how many different Hakka fists are there? I know of only Pak Mei, Dragon (Long Ying), and Southern Mantis. Are there others? Since these three are all versions of the "Hakka fist", are the differences in kind and not in degree, or vice verce? And they all seem to be short systems, so are there Hakka long fists as well? And why are they mostly short anyway (any historiucal reason?)? And last but not least, since Wing Chun is also a short fist, and most of the short fists seems to share similar concepts, is that a conincidence due to the "short"-ness of teh systems or is there some historical reason? Or am I just wrong in that area?

OK, that's way too many questoins in one post, but I'd appreciate any input. Thanks

Long Live the Fighters!
-Paul Mua'Dib Atreides

CLOUD 1
09-20-2000, 12:56 AM
Five yards out , five yards back !!!.
Three yards out, three yards back!!!.
One yard out, one yard back!!!.

Octavius
09-20-2000, 02:56 AM
Huh?

Long Live the Fighters!
-Paul Mua'Dib Atreides

overdemon
09-20-2000, 03:05 AM
A hakka fist!
cool!
wing chun is hakka? I dunno

but are you hakka?

Bastet
09-21-2000, 12:40 AM
hello, to answer some of your questions -

i do Yau Kung Mun, it is regarded as hakka (possibly because of the pak mei connection).

the systems all have similarities. eg. most of them use tun to fou chum, and they use sililar techniques like hammerfist, chum choy, mor qui etc. they use centre-line theory, angulation, ging development, 2 man sensitivity and conditioning drills. there is obviously some difference between the techniques and names, but the basics are the same. there are also small differences between teachers of the SAME style.

im not sure about wing chun, their straight back theory makes the techniques a little different.

anyway, hope that helped a bit...

blessed be
A.

MoQ
09-21-2000, 01:26 AM
Bak Mei is Hakka, S.Mantis is Hakka, Dragon is Hakka. The Hakka are a group of people living on boats called the visitors. It just happened that the people learning Lung Ying, Bak Mei, and Mantis from the various monks happened to be HAKKA people.

Surely everyone has heard that the reason for the short southern hands is that in Southern China the houses are closer, there are allyways and small areas, so the fist is short and the kicks are low. In the north there are more open areas and the people are taller than the southern people and need longer so the Kung Fu is long fist. Long fist styles are practical on horse backs as well and in the south there are no horses.

CLOUD 1
09-23-2000, 03:35 AM
MoQ,
Who told you that twaddle? So what you are saying is that if a Lung Ying practitioner was in an open space he will not be able to use his art efficiently.
Five yards out, five yards back!!!
Three yards out, three yards back!!!
One yard out, one yard back!!!
One inch out, one inch back!!!
Comprenday!!!

overdemon
09-23-2000, 03:41 AM
I don't remember we live on boats?

CLOUD 1
09-23-2000, 03:55 AM
So where do you live overdemon?

Octavius
09-23-2000, 06:06 AM
Thanks for your info, guys, for those of you who contributed.

Here's another question (yes, I just seem to have a boatload of them...):
How are the hakka fists trained? What I mean is, I think I remember reading somewhere (it was a web site...) that there are "not that many techniques" in these arts - so training was not spent in doing a million techniques - but that the majority of the training consisted in developeing ging, and varous gong or what I believe one of you called force training. Is this true? I ask becasue I also read another site (OK, I gotta stop surfing the web) that said that the hakka arts have "more techniques than any other" - which really doesn't sound too kosher to me. I mean they are contradictory. So what gives?

Long Live the Fighters!
-Paul Mua'Dib Atreides

MoQ
09-23-2000, 07:42 AM
I was answering a general question. Take a pill...
5 yards is only about 5 steps. What are YOU saying? hahaha

Lu Chi-hwa
09-23-2000, 12:14 PM
For you guys who are wondering who are the Hakka (Han) Chinese visit this site:
http://www.asiawind.com/hakka/


Lu Chi-hwa

overdemon
09-24-2000, 03:37 AM
In a stone house of course!
LOL

sui-fuw
09-28-2000, 01:58 AM
if you don't get "5 in 5 out " one, you're not hak-ka or you know little of hak-ka gung-fu.stick to your own little universe,and no i won't explain.
mere begginers are tought this,and yes i am happy to be one.so jokes on you pal ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ahh sorry couldn't stop crying with laughter you joker...
MOQ WHAT ARE YOU QUEING UP FOR,OR DO LIKE PLAYING SNOOKER,HA,HA CAUSE, DON'T TELL ME ITS lung ying MORQ cause as a,joker it does not fit the bill.....


oct why are you so intrested in hak-ka gung-fu?
all that i can say its little,simple,ideas.

09-28-2000, 03:23 AM
Moq
It's about time you got your arse kicked boy! I use that term meaningfully, as you must be just a boy... or an old fool! You are not as knowledgable in the martial arts as you would like to think, if you can't understand the poem.
"It's better to know and not need, than to need and not know". Stuff that up ya! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

09-28-2000, 02:57 PM
Moq
P.S to my previous posting...
When refering to the poem, i meant the 5 & 5 of previous postings, that you do not seem to comprehend. Which is very indicative of your true lack of knowledge.... or is it that you've just forgotten sooo much

billy_pilgrim
09-28-2000, 04:18 PM
fierce tiger/sui-fuw/CLOUD 1/etc...

This forum, as I understand it, exists as a place for individuals to EXCHANGE information, thoughts, ideas, etc. If anything MoQ has posted is in error, by all means, refute it with whatever means you have at your disposal. However, that doesn't seem to be what's happening, MoQ posts, you don't like what he posts, so you respond with a poem you want him to analyze. Hmm...you know I'm sure I could whip out a particularly tricky passage of Finnegan's Wake that would have you furrowing your brow for days on end, but that's not really the point is it? Whether Moq is Hakka or whether he is Pak Mei Pai is rather immaterial if his info is correct. If it's not, than tell us where it's wrong...
Oh, and, please no puerile posturing about "arse kicking", especially when you seem so convinced that MoQ is little more than a kid...it kind of makes you look like the child.

MoQ
09-28-2000, 08:00 PM
When did I say I hadn't heard of your little poem?
I found it odd that you used it in reference to open spaces, but of course no one brought THAT up either.

You come on here with an attitude and alot of crap to say about the well known Sigung of Bak Mei Pai. Although I am not Bak Mei(or Lung Ying for that matter, which has only been referred to with the "Mor Kiu" suffix fairly recently), I was disgusted by the lack of respect and I was sure we were dealing with TROLLS.

I just happened to have a friend that knew CLC personally and blew your claims out of the water. Face it, you were trumped bigtime. My source superceeds your teacher or even HIS teacher.

I feel that if you "guys" had anything but BS to say you would've said it. Why would you think you could just appear with a load of sh*t and have anyone see you as anything but an ass?

09-28-2000, 11:53 PM
moq-stop being a little ***et!

your friend knew clc big deal, of course he wouldnt degrade his friend, he was more than likely doing opuim with him, how old is this so called friend buy the way. i told this story and i told you also that a pak mei teacher of clc lineage even backed me up on that statment.
i have no attitude. "you cant handle the truth".


billy you seem to be in his little ***et group as well. i get onto the internet and find this forum i think most topics are good. i put in a interesting statement which people should know about and they all go ballistic.
i do not like to carry on, i will stop all this bickering with moq. the bottom line is cheung lai chun, lam yui gwai, they both did opuim.
sorry to bring it up again! mo da

CLOUD 1
09-29-2000, 03:05 AM
You use the phrase 'Mo da'
Do you honestly believe that?
These guys will not believe what you have got to say, so don't keep on. Can you honestly say that CLC's Kung Fu is Crap? You seem to Judge this man. Although you have never met him or studied his art, what makes your Pak Mei so good.
It seems to me that you're stuck in your kung fu training. To try and learn from this forum is not a good way. Practise hard what you have been taught and the 'Dragon' will come. Have Faith!!!

overdemon
09-30-2000, 05:48 AM
***

[This message was edited by overdemon on 09-30-00 at 11:04 PM.]

FIRE HAWK
04-18-2001, 11:51 PM
I have herd of Hakka southern mantis,Hakka southern Eagle Claw,Hakka Snake style,Hakka ox style,I am not sure if Pak Mei White eyebrow,Lung Ying Mor Kui,and Yau Kun mun,are completely hakka i am not sure on those styles.What other hakka styles have you herd of?

FIRE HAWK
04-19-2001, 12:21 AM
If i remember correctly Li Gar,Li Ga ,Li Ka, is a hakka style i think? there was a guy on here named Wilson that mentioned a hakka style called Dill Gar Gao.

Shaolin Master
04-19-2001, 03:41 AM
Hakka is a race. Thought a style that originated or belongs to somewhere else and then absorbed into Hakka could be called Hakka.....though this is like saying that tiger style in the hands of an american could be called US Tiger Fist ...but that would not be correct.....unfortunately that is what happened with Hakka styles....originally
some say there is but one, San Bu Jin (Chu Gar)….but then even this is San Zhan which is traced to shaolin.

Regards
Shi Chan Long

FIRE HAWK
04-19-2001, 05:51 AM
Ling Gar Ligar website i seen this sifu in a magazine and he said his style was hakka.

FIRE HAWK
04-19-2001, 06:01 AM
http://www.wingsing.com/LingGar2000.htm

Lau
05-14-2001, 05:52 PM
Any new insights on this story? I find this story much more likely than the 5 elders story.

Regards, Lau

handsome
05-14-2001, 08:07 PM
Kevin--Great stuffs and just want to say "thank you". ;)

For all the chow gar guys, you guys should wake up, the only true and original art of southern praying mantis is CHU GAR TONG LONG, not chow gar, chow gar was from Chu Gar ;) ;) please ask sifu GENE CHAN and he will give you the true history of southern praying mantis and why the chow gar was a mistake from the past, CHU is name, not chow, maybe its time for chow gar lineage change their name back to the original name CHU GAR TONG LONG. ;)

mantis108
05-14-2001, 09:40 PM
Just some thoughts, I missed last time:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>There was a previous post about Lam Yiu Kwai, Lao Sui, and Cheung Lai Cheun all hanging out in the same teahouse in Hong Kong which sent me into hours of research trying to find connections between these three in the resources I have. I found out that all three were born in the "Wai Yeung" village/province of Guangdong. This is in the East River area (Tung Fung) - and close to Lau Fou Shen Mountain. I have been unable to locate this site to determine its exact location (through atlas's / internet) and population size. Knowing the pop. would help in either supporting my theory or detracting from it.[/quote]

Guangdong is a province.
Wai Yeung - I think is either the alias of the East River region or the name of a county. I will have to check on that. It is quite common that people and places have aliases in China. That's where the confusion comes in. The village that GM LYK was born in was call To Po Tau in Bor Low County.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>LYK and CLC were known as "the Two Tigers of East River" but no mention of Lao Sui. Also, from the speculation out there, the Lam Family studied from the "Hai Fung" Monk (who IKF names as "Huang Nian Jiao). This same Monk taught a man named "Liang Hua Su Ren" who taught CLC. Of course, there is the Monk named Tai Yuk as well (at Lau Fou Shen).[/quote]

Hoi Fung is also a place name. It is believed that Huang (Wong in Cantonese) might have been from or famous in Hoi Fung which is also alias of Chu Chou. It's sort of like the De or Van De in European convention. Name is a big thing in Chinese culture. The more Names (titles as well) you have the more "established or accomplished" you are.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>From the magazine articles out there on Chu Gar (written by Gene Chen and Paul Whitrod), they say Lao Sui learned his Art from a Wong Fook Gao (who was also born in Wai Yeung). However, I believe the source said that all three also learned from a "Chung Yel Jung" - the Poisen Snake, in Hong Kong. Is there dispute in the S. Mantis community over who Lao Sui learned from? It seems that Lum Sang is not connected with Lao Sui's lineage. Much of the info I have comes from the huge Southern Praying Mantis historical collaboration on the Net (by F. Blanco). I am wondering about this connection. Also, I am wondering about the possibility of Chung Yel Jung being called "the poisen snake" and Lung Ying's top form (one of) being called Poisen Snake Flicks / Hides Tongue.[/quote]

Huang Nian Jiao and Wong Fook Gao MIGHT very well be the same name with different pronounciations. This happens all the time. There are over hundred of dialects in China and to mention most of the time teaching are orally done. We might tend to think that old masters don't "cross train" but if we look closely at history...

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Therefore (to sum), we have 3 kung-fu brothers, with a possible 4 shared teachers. The fact that Lung Ying does not mention Wong or Chung, to me suggests either a desire to seperate, or a completely seperate lineage.[/quote]

As far as my research goes, it were GM LYK's father and uncle who went to learn from Hoi Fung Si. GM CLC learned from GM LYK's uncle Lum Hop or sometime know as Lum "Ah" Hop. The "Ah" is a slang accent added in for names that are composed of 2 characters. It "sounds" better and more powerful for Cantonese. Technically, they were Sihingdei. I speculate that Sam Bo Tyui concept was from Wong. If we compare Lung Ying's Sup Luk Dong (16 Moves) and Bak Mei's Jik Bo (striaght Steps), we can see that there would some kind of a jong (on guard position) and then the left Bil Ji - right punch combo. Further more they are both taught as the novice first form. To me, it's kind of like the Boxing's 1-2 combo but in the Hakka arts it has more flare with same if not more efficiency. Just a thought.


Mantis108

Contraria Sunt Complementa

CLOUD ONE
05-15-2001, 12:28 AM
Mantis,
could you clear up some thing?
Was ClC a master of LungYing before he studied Pak Mei? If so what did he change in his LungYing to become PakMei? I don't want to have a flame war. I am seriously interested.

FIRE HAWK
05-15-2001, 10:46 AM
Bak Mei (White Eyebrow)

One of the styles placing it's origins from the shaolin temple by the Monk Bak Mei. This art is often considered a traitors art because of the supposed actions of the monk that is said to cause the destruction of the shaolin temple. Bak Mei was said to have killed monk Jee Shim in some stories and was him self killed by one of the remain shaolin monks. Some do not believe this story and feel the story is altered from the truth. As most martial arts history the legends are often twisted or even entirely made up. What is passed down as history in Bak Mei is that master Cheung Lai Chun brought this art to the public after learning it from monk Chuk Fat Wan who had been a Daoist disciple at Kwang Wai temple at Sze Chuan where Bak Mei him self is said to have taught. He moved to Canton and came across Cheung Lai Chun who was already a master of Lee gar, Dragon(Lung Ying), and Gypsy style. After Being bested by a monk in a restaurant, Cheung followed the monk to his master and was able to persuade monk Chuk Fat Wan to teach him Bak Mei. In any case Bak Mei is a very effective style that uses powerful strikes and a triangular foot work common to many southern arts like Dragon style and Wing Chun. Although Bak Mei seems very external and powerful, it is not a truly hard style. The principle use both yin and yang to combine soft and hard. Power release is executed upon contact only. Much of Bak Mei's power comes from the back and is often utilized by their famous phoenix eye punch. Strikes are often aimed for softer areas or pressure points instead of smashing style blows that can be found in Hung Gar and other styles This system uses a combination of straight and circular attacks but the circular attacks are not as great as those of choy lee fut but can come from various angles. Training can be very intense utilizing body conditioning and weight training in the version I have seen. Strikes are fast and lethal and launched from a solid even weight distributed stance which is a wider than wing chun and utilizes a 50/50 stance work. I am slightly confused about the forms which are authentic Bak Mei and what sifu Cheung may have taught form his past training if anything. I have heard that they teach over 40 different forms by one source and I have visited another site that only lists about 20. In HB Un's Book Pak Mei Fung Fu, he says master Cheung learned several forms previously from Lee gar, Dragon Style, and Gypsy Style that have the same name as traditional Bak Mei. I don't know if they are the same or just have the same names. But some of the basic forms include Sup Jee (Cross pattern), Kou Bo Teaw (nine step push), Fancy Panther, Sup Bat Mor Kiu (18 ghost bridge), 7 point plum flower, and Tiger step movements. Sub Jee is usually considered a basic form that contains many of Bak Mei's key principles. Weapons include spear, staff, broad swords, bench, chain and various other weapons.

WenJin
05-15-2001, 03:37 PM
According to the link below :
http://www.hku.hk/cmaclub/resource-center/malibrary/leeka.htm

Lei Ga Kuen is very much a Hakka art! as well

just for sake of completeness.

Lau
05-15-2001, 04:07 PM
Good to see that I'm not the only one who stay's interested in the real history of Pak Mei. Here are some of the questions I have on this:

1 Did CLC create Pak Mei himself after learning art of Mor Kiu from Jook Fai Wan? Or did he learn the Pak Mei style from him?
2 Who was Chung Yel Jung and what was his role?
3 If, like Wilson quoted Dai, Yuk Sim Si and Jook Fai Wan are Si Hing Dai and they both teached the art of Mor Kui, it would mean that both have the same original forms. Are these original forms still to be found somewhere?

Regards, Lau

Buby
05-15-2001, 04:57 PM
If Chuk Fat Wan was a doist disciple why is he shown in pictures with a buddist robe?


Thanks in advance.

buby

Buby
05-16-2001, 06:38 PM
I found this looking through one of Eddie Chong's student's websites. I'll be pasting bits and pieces of it along with the web address if anyone is interested in reading their whole site.

What I'm about to attach is what I guess would be considered part/whole of Eddie Chong's lineage. I don't think they claim CLC's lineage, it's difficult for me to tell cause I stink when it comes to matching chinese names.

Anyway guys I hope you enjoy the reading!!!

"The system was passed on to Monk Kwong-Wei, Jui-Yuen, and Monk Fah-Yuen. Then later to the Great Master Cheung Lai-Chun and Liu Chou-Leung, etc., until now.

This style of White Eyebrow taught decends from the Buddhist Sect.

Sifu Dr. Ko and his son, Sifu Michael Coconis, are both students of Yin-Cheung "Eddie" Chong. Sigung Chong's sifu is Lee, Yong Kien, and is located in Foshan City (formally Fatshan), Guangdong Province, Peoples Republic of (Mainland) China. Sigung Lee's sifu is the legendary Lau,
Siu Leung of Canton. Mr. Lee is a closed-door student of Mr. Lau and Mr. Chong is a closed-door student of Mr. Lee. The traces of Mr. Lau go back to Fung Fou Dao Yan(Wind Fire Daoist), whose birthname is not known at this time."

This style of White Eyebrow taught decends from the
Buddhist Sect.

Sifu Dr. Ko and his son, Sifu Michael Coconis, are both
students of Yin-Cheung "Eddie" Chong. Sigung Chong's sifu
is Lee, Yong Kien, and is located in Foshan City (formally Fatshan), Guangdong
Province, Peoples Republic of (Mainland) China. Sigung Lee's sifu is the legendary Lau,
Siu Leung of Canton. Mr. Lee is a closed-door student of Mr. Lau and Mr. Chong is a
closed-door student of Mr. Lee. The traces of Mr. Lau go back to Fung Fou Dao Yan
(Wind Fire Daoist), whose birthname is not known at this time."

http://www.komudokwan.com/bakmei.html


Is this a different lineage?

Can some of the names of the past masters be cross referenced to the masters that CLC learned from?

Thanks in advance,

Bub

tnwingtsun
05-17-2001, 10:40 AM
see my e-mail

honorisc
05-23-2001, 09:27 PM
Southern Shao-lin: Phoenix-Eye Fist by Dreager and Cheung, years ago.

Very some such,perhaps might have been, likely say some, some not.

ngokfei
05-24-2001, 08:15 AM
Just came across a blurb regarding Lam Yiu Gwai, Cheung Lau Chuen and Li Sui. I found it in
Secrets of Kung Fu vol3no.4 from 1979.

The Three Tigers of the Eastern River Valley
by Michael Luk

These are 3 famous exponents of the Eastern River Vally (also known as the Pearl River Delta) of Kwangtung Province. They are Grand Master Lin Yao Kui of the Dragon Form Mo Chiao Style, Grandmaster Chang Li Chuan of the White Brow Style and Grandmaster Liu Cheng Chu of the Southern Praying Mantis Style. Lin Yao Kue, son of Lin Ching Yuan, learned the kung fu of the Mo Chiao Style from Monk Ta Yu. Chang Li Chuan followed Lin Hsia and was later taught the pugilistic skill of the White Brow Style by Monk Chu Fa Yun. Liu Chen Chu (Alias Liu Shui) is the first person to teach the Southern Praying Mantis Style in Hong Kong. His teacher was Wang Fu Kao.


thats all of it. Again Mandarin Names I think. :confused:

eric Hargrove
ngokfei@juno.com

Kevin Barkman
05-25-2001, 05:49 AM
Hi Mr. Hargorve,

Thanks for posting that bit. Does the article say anything else?

Unfortunate transliteration attempt - but better than not trying at all, eh?

Are these magazines still available for purchase?

Cheers - kevin

reneritchie
09-18-2001, 11:34 PM
Anyone have any good info on Hakka boxing? IE, what systems they practiced initially in the central plains, what they might have picked up during their various migrations South, and what systems are currently practiced among the Hakka?

Rgds,

RR

L D S
09-19-2001, 05:16 PM
Hakka Boxing or Hakka Kuen is a general term for all Hakka Styles. There are different schools like Niu, Tiao, Chu, Liu, etc.
Dragon Style, Chu Jia Tang Lang and Bak Mei are also regarded Hakka Styles. They are practised among the Hakka population of Meixian, Xingning and Huiyang area.

Ling

FIRE HAWK
11-01-2001, 09:43 AM
What are the Hakka styles you have herd of and tell a little bit about the style and its forms history ? Ect..

David
11-01-2001, 12:57 PM
Hi Firehawk,

I don't know if you're aware of this ut you've been going on this research for years.

How about you make a website out of it and invite us to contribute there?

Regards,
David

The powers of Kung Fu never fail!
-- Hong Kong Phooey

David
11-05-2001, 01:13 PM
...

The powers of Kung Fu never fail!
-- Hong Kong Phooey

FIRE HAWK
01-27-2002, 07:44 PM
What other hakka styles are there besides Southern Mantis and what are the names of there forms ? How do these Hakka styles differ from each other ?

Rolling_Hand
01-27-2002, 08:17 PM
In China Kung Fu People don't call their styles as Hakka or Cantonese or Chiu Chow or Kowloon styles, these styles of Kung Fu should be called Nam Keun or Southern Fists.

FIRE HAWK
01-27-2002, 09:23 PM
Ok then what other kinds of Hakka Nam kuen or Hakka Southern Fists are there ?

fiercest tiger
01-27-2002, 09:37 PM
hakka southern eagle is in hongkong!!

so if a hakka person did northern mantis is that concidered hakka northern mantis? why i ask is because bak mei is still bak mei even if a hakka, cantonese, or english learnt it! no what im saying?:)

jon
01-27-2002, 09:57 PM
Hakka styles are charactorised by short explosive power and advance work with the pheonix fist [although there are exceptions] they are also often highly aggressive and believe the best defence is high offence. However as previously stated its a bit of a crocked arguement becouse any style that has been kept in a Hakka family could be classifed as Hakka.
There are however some more famous ones...
Bak Mei - has hakka varients and regular varients
Lung Ying - due to infulence by LYG the style maintains elements of his familys kung fu which was hakka
South Mantis - you know about this one im sure
Li Gar - now spread to the states but still claim a strong hakka influence.
Lau Ga - English Lau is a hakka based art although has now gone totaly public.

This would be the mere tip of the iceberg and only some of the more public ones, there are many many more but most would have never heard of them. They have a nasty habbit of keeping such things in the family;)

CLOUD ONE
01-27-2002, 10:02 PM
What does it mean Hakka.
The roots to the systems comes from where?
Hakka styles do not vary that much. There are a few things that binds these systems together, which has to do with lineage.

jon
01-27-2002, 10:11 PM
I would venture to say that the reason the systems bare similarity is not due to linage [as that is repective to the system at hand] but rather due to the nature of Hakka people. They were persecuted and discriminated against, so they were forced to stick together like glue and share knowledge premirely amongst one another. The reason im sure the styles bare similarity is becouse they often shared training methods and skills.
LYG and CLC of Lung Ying and Bak Mei respectively were great friends and both had good knowledge of each others respective systems. They are still often taught together to this day.
The Hakka community have always been close knit its more likely that the styles have mixed and matched skills to the point of them baring similarity rather than all of the systems somehow having the exact same seeds.

FIRE HAWK
01-27-2002, 11:46 PM
I see what you guys are saying I just thought that there was certain styles that came from the Hakka people only like southern mantis. fiercest tiger i wonder how the hakka Southern Eagle style looks compared to Northern Eagle Claw? I have seen the Hakka Unicorn style and it uses a short Eagle claw and the Phoenix Eye Fist and the two sword finger hand and uses a whipping ging kind of power the form is real short and covers four directions it looks like southern mantis or Pak Mei it also has a Chi Kung section at the begining of the form that looks like it could come from a form of Hung Gar i also seen the Unicorn style done on a wooden dummy this style also has Chi na techniques in it too. Jon so Li Gar and Lau Gar are considered Hakka then and come from the Hakka people . I have herd that there is a Hakka Snake style but i dont know if it comes from the hakka people or not.

Rolling_Hand
01-27-2002, 11:49 PM
Bruce Lee was a native Shunda...

Do you call JKD as a Shunda style?

jon
01-28-2002, 12:30 AM
Care to explain why Bruce Lee was kicked out of Wing Chun by Yip Man?
Funny how some things are kept in the culture isnt it?

ji way lung
01-28-2002, 04:56 AM
right on rolling hand.
where do you guys get your stereotypes of hakka? do you even know any hakka? or you sayin what you've read or been told? :rolleyes: hey maybe good stereotypes for hakka in terms of kung fu, so why spoil the image huh? :p

GOLDEN ARMOR
01-28-2002, 08:57 AM
Does anyone have any info on who created Lee Ga & where it came from? Im asking coz it was combined with either Fut or Hung ga & the Shaolin system to create the art im training. The founder of my art learnt Lee Ga from monk Lee Yau San, student of Abbot Ji Sin Sum Si. Some say Lee Yau San created Lee Ga, but i read that a student of the infamous daoist priest Bak Mei founded LG. Is their any websites on LG? Also some info on the style, is there any famous staff or hand sets? Does it look anything like Bak Mei & does it have a main fist or animal? I heard it uses the panther fist, like my style. Does BM use this fist a lot?

CLOUD ONE
01-28-2002, 09:50 AM
Hey are you a descendent of the Lee family?

Why do you use JI and Lee as if they were seperate?

Your Si Fu sounds like he is hakka, what is his name and does he have a web site?

I heard that Chong Li Tan got his pole from a Lee Ga master.
The Lee Ga system is very difficult to learn i.e takes years and years of hard work.

Colin
01-28-2002, 12:59 PM
Here's a quote from a Lau Gar site:

"Lau Gar Kuen as taught in "London Lau Gar" was introduced to the UK in 1961 by Master Jeremy Yau. Having been taught by his Grand Father "Yau Luk Sau".
Yau Luk Sau was taught by Masters Yang Hoi Ching, and Wan Goon Wing, during the later part of the 19th century.
Master Yau's grand father was of "Hakka" origin, and only spoke the Hakka dialetic, therefore Lau Gar Kung Fu as taught in the UK could be described as a Hakka style, akin to similar systems such as Bak Mei, Lung Yang, Southern Praying Mantis etc."

Also check out this link:

http://www.acad.polyu.edu.hk/~96981339r/HagGaPeople.htm

It geos into some detail.

regards
Colin..............

Steven T. Richards
01-28-2002, 01:59 PM
Not wishing to complicate matters, but my Pai is known as Lee-Gar Tong-Long in parts of S.E.Asia, after Great-Grandmaster Lee-Yin-Sing (Hakka).

Steve.

Rolling_Hand
01-28-2002, 03:50 PM
About Hakka???

Check these out...
http://www.asiawind.com/hakka
http://www.asiawind.com/hakka/people.htm

Some famous Hakka ancestor Zhu Xi ( Song Dynasty )
From Zhu Xi to Garrett Gee
http://home.vtmuseum.org/genealogy/hung_fa_yi/

Rolling_Hand
01-29-2002, 07:09 PM
Sui-fuw,

There's no harm in wishful thinking.

Maybe there's more to things than meets the eye... just like Wing Chun vs Bak Mei.

Rolling_Hand
01-30-2002, 06:34 PM
Building slowly has its merits...
Sil Nim Tao is the first form of Wing Chun - the little idea!

Be prepared to move with the natural flow and order of things in the cosmos. Keep an open mind and let the profound concepts of the ancients come alive, become meaningful, Chum Kil - Seeking the bridge, much of what you've accomplished rides on what you do next. So act, let it make a real difference to your life.

jon
01-30-2002, 09:45 PM
I listed a Li Gar as being in the usa.
I meant Ling Gar:rolleyes:
Sorry for any confusion.

CannonFist
01-31-2002, 06:02 AM
I think it would be more accurate to group arts under the regions where they originated or are popular in. The main parts of China where the hakka people made their home include Guangxi, Guangdong and Fujian. For example I have some contact with people from the hakka area of Mooi Yuen, Kwangtung who told me that the Mooi Yuen hakka regards Chu Gar as their favoured 'hakka' art, that is with the biggest following. I wonder whether the hakka martial artist in Fujian and Taiwan knows of the usual arts that we associate with hakkas, namely Nam Tong Long, Pak Mei, Lung Ying? I have heard of hakkas in an area in Fujian practising Moi Fa instead of the usual Pak Mei, southern praying mantis etc....

Chinwoo-er
01-31-2002, 09:05 AM
Something I found on a site

__________________________________________________ __


Hakka Style ( Hakka Martial Arts. Lijiajiao )

History of the Art ( Information Provided by Ben Guai )

The martial arts style Lijiajiao originated in the areas of Wuhua, Mei county of Guangdong. It is believed that a man named Li Tie-Niu created it. During his years of travelling for trades, he got to know a Shaolin Monk of which he learnt Martial arts from. After years of development, he finally created his own form of Lijiajiao. Over generations of teaching and passing of the art, the are practitioners of this style in the areas of Wuhua, Guangdong , Mei county, Korea, Xingning, Shantau, Puuning among others.

In previous years, Master Chau Fei-Xiong taught this style in Kowloon City. It was noticed that the overall fashion of this art was quite similar to the styles of the Dongjiang Hakka martial arts. Routines are short, moves are simple and direct, many repeated actions in training.

Style's Characteristics:

This school of martial arts uses Fengyanquan, Jianzhan ( sword palm ) and Jianzhi ( arrow fingers ) as the main hand forms. In practice, it is split into Ying and Yang forms. This includes attack and defence, deflect and strike. Both wrists do not leave the chest framework, fast in attack and retreat, and stamping to increase the strength. The power demands Baufali( explosiveness ), Jieli ( Intercepting power ), Huali (deflective power ), Jiaoli/Wanli ( wrist power ). Body movements demand Jinjen. It is by nature a style which faces the enemy square on.

Specially: Powerful fist strikes, small stance, stable lower body, shouting to increase power.

Known Routines

Empty hand.: Sanbu-chezhuan, Jieshou, Ezhan, Chibu-titzwu
Weapons : Gun, Duanshangdao, Qijiebian.
Set Sparring : Sanbu-duichai.

Shaolin Master
01-31-2002, 04:35 PM
Cannon makes an important point. In China, martial arts are typically grouped in terms of regions and not necessarily style specific.

This is vital given that same family names are often from different regions and it is the region governing the premise of the styles over and above the name. It is for this reason that there are 8 Hong Ga (all different not too mention varieties within themselves) or 5 Lei Ga's or 6 Yang Styles (not all taiji) etc.........

Of course like all methods of classification there are always limitations of application, but it is more relevant than say North/South or Internal/External which lose credability. This is the reason Current Chinese research often functions in the same manner.

ChinWoo-er,

That is a description of the Hakka Lei Ga Gao sourced from the Hong Kong University groups. The important fact often overseen is that it is one of the families of the DongJiang region. The similarity maybe more than just coincidence.


Rgds,

S.Teebas
02-01-2002, 09:57 PM
What is Hakka?... is there an opposite?

fiercest tiger
02-02-2002, 01:16 AM
Hakka are a race of people that where red capes and fly, they are the most secretive people...oops maybe i shouldnt talk about this..sorry!:D

jon
02-02-2002, 01:53 AM
F.T
You forgot about the part with the camels.
And there ability to bend spectral light.


The opposite of Hakka is akkah
They are a very public people and frequent message boards posting peices of pointless useless information.
Many people here including me are actualy of akkah background...
We have our own arts such as:
keyboard slapping palm
Flaming post fist
My personal style
West Auburn Mouth Boxing

dezhen2001
02-02-2002, 07:38 AM
Jon - that cracked me up man :D

:D

david

CLOUD ONE
02-02-2002, 07:50 AM
Jon why don't you ask F.T to lend you the tape.
You know the tape with the Very Very powerful ging.

OOPs I forgot your SiFu confiscated it.;)

Have you worked it out yet, how to manifest this ging. Practice more on searching on these forums there you will find the answers. Why don't you P.M M108 he could direct you to a few book stores or join Yummys gang, they are more evolved than you.
No ging no essence just a collection of flowery leg and arm movements.
Wouldn't you agree?

Oh jon isn't your sifu Hakka?

fiercest tiger
02-02-2002, 08:16 AM
HAHAH! My sifu never convicated it, i gave to him when he was sick, and pasted away. im not going to ask his family for my **** tape!

yes the hakka old guy was powerful, no doubt!

The power maybe ill get it, have you got it?:o

cherrypraxis
02-02-2002, 08:53 AM
JON:

mwuhahahahahahahahhhh!

CannonFist
02-02-2002, 09:00 AM
Shaolin Master,

6 Yang styles, so does one of them include the Yang style where the famous Yang family spear stems from and isn't Hung Gar's 5th brother bagua pole form suppose to be Yang style.

S.Teebas
02-02-2002, 01:31 PM
So they are people who just keep stuff secretive?

jon
02-02-2002, 03:27 PM
You ask some strange things my fine friend.

"Jon why don't you ask F.T to lend you the tape.
You know the tape with the Very Very powerful ging."
* Why watch when i can simply learn to get it myself?

"OOPs I forgot your SiFu confiscated it."
* My sifu likes skill in his hands he does not care for video. He does hold many things back from me but only ever for my own good. The last time i jumped the gun i found out something i really didnt want to know.

"Have you worked it out yet, how to manifest this ging. "
*No, My ging is comparitvly weak compared to many higher cma practioners, my movement and flow is where i tend to lay my skills. I have a little ging but nothing to write home about.

"Practice more on searching on these forums there you will find the answers."
* Odd comment, you dont know me or what answers i might seek.
I may already know the answer and yet be unsure of the question? If you mean the answer to ging, I know the methods im just lazy with the practice.

"Why don't you P.M M108 he could direct you to a few book stores or join Yummys gang, they are more evolved than you. "
* This was kind of funny, books are great i have many, never once had one thats improved my actual skills yet.
Yummy seems very knowledgeable, I have two sifus i respect very much are you trying to tell me Yummy is more 'evolved' than them? If so just how would you know?

"No ging no essence just a collection of flowery leg and arm movements.
Wouldn't you agree? "
* Nope... Ging is force manifested, you can still fight quite effectively with no ging at all. The movement is most important, power comes secondary. I could have all the ging in the world and have no idea how to create a gate to release it. Still your general premice is nice, also very asuming. Again you have no idea of my power or 'ging'. It might surprise you.

"Oh jon isn't your sifu Hakka?"
* No, im pretty sure our Sigung is though.

Anymore odd questions or asumptions about my skill and background? This is becoming almost a habbit, heck im not hard to find if you wish come find me and see for yourself...

jon
02-03-2002, 02:37 AM
I just came back to this thread later in the day and realised your post my not have all been directed to me. Whether it was or wasnt i have over reacted in my reply so dont take it too seriously.
Has been a bad few days and ive gotten pretty jumpy.
Jon

Shaolin Master
02-03-2002, 05:28 AM
Yang Shi Zha Quan

Yang Shi Qiang & Yang Shi Jian are of Shandong Prov.
Whether this is the same as that of the 5th Bro Staff is a question of History

Yang Shi Taijiquan - Though there are stories of the Yang Shi Qiang from here.
Yang Shi Tuo Zhan Quan
Yang Shi PiguaZhang
etc.... 6 was not a definitive number in as so much as an indicative one.

On a side note-

Wei a Pao

"Lien Gung Bu Lien Jiang, Dau Lau you yi xie cheng"

Meng Ng Meng ga

Train Well

PS : Ngo Gin do lei go san bio - Sum Yi Kuen all d way ah hehehe..
Hei mong nei go Gong Zho ng hai tai san fu ah...

jon
02-04-2002, 06:49 PM
"hi guys why the attacks,on hakka?its quite cheap wouldn't you say? "
* Please dont misunderstand, they are just silly jokes, ill have a shot at anyone given half a chance. I have the upmost respect for the Hakka people and would not dream of seriously speaking ill of them.

"as opposed to "ging"well jon you simply don't know your efficientcy?"
* All i know is my instructor is always harping on me to improve my 'ging'. I know its there [he says so to] but im often not focussed and my intent doesnt always match my movement. Besides were you really expecting me to say i had lots? Im not worried about it, just need more training.

"to be taught by a hakka si-fu would be more than a honour to your son?"
*Certainly it would be an honour, though to be honest i could give much less of a care for the ethnic background of my instructor. He could be a dwarf eskimo, as long as he knows his stuff he is worth his while.
Again sui-fuw i have nothing against the Hakka i was just poking fun at the stereotype they have picked up on this board.

Hope your well
Jon

Yum Cha
02-04-2002, 08:18 PM
Are there any surnames in particular that are "usually" from Hakka origins, or have the names all been blended into the general Chinese culture?

joedoe
02-04-2002, 09:17 PM
To answer your question (and I may be wrong, I am not a student of Chinese history) the Hakka were the Ming survivors who fled south after the Qing ousted them.

Continue the flaming. :)

ji way lung
02-06-2002, 12:28 AM
Originally posted by Yum Cha
Are there any surnames in particular that are "usually" from Hakka origins, or have the names all been blended into the general Chinese culture?

Lay, Li and Lim.

CannonFist
02-10-2002, 10:49 PM
Siu Lum Sim Si!!

Gei sat ngo geh san bio tong gau ge, soi yin ng tong bat guo tou hai yat yong, sum yi, ying yi, tung gong, tou hai yat yong :)

Ngo geh san gung yao si hou mong bat guo yao si tou yao dit si gan siong mong hai KFO gong fai wah!!

Shaolin Master
02-11-2002, 05:15 PM
Pao Kuen,

Nei Cong dac Aam ah, dou hai yat yeung.
Kei Sat KFO go yan che chung yi cong fai wah, koei dei ng chung zhan wah.... :D
Soi Yin nei go gong zho hai mong nei dou ying goi lin Gong.
Hei mong nei go san nin fai lok.

till soon
:D

FIRE HAWK
02-27-2002, 09:00 PM
How does the principals and concepts in Pak Mei,Lung Ying,Southern Mantis,Yau Kung Mun compare to each other ?

FIRE HAWK
02-27-2002, 09:09 PM
How does Pak Mei, Lung Ying,Southern mantis ,Yau Kung Mun, forms and techniques compare to each other ? are they similar i mean are the forms and techniques like there stances footwork handwork very close to each other ?

BearBear
10-18-2002, 05:16 PM
Hi. I am just wondering which are hakka arts

i know the following are hakka arts:

nan tong long (chow/chu, jook lum, dit ar, ?)
pak mei
lung xing
hakka kune
shaolin chu ka kune
?yau kun men

is wing chun a hakka art??


any hakka arts others? and maybe a summery of them


Thanks

BearBear

FIRE HAWK
10-18-2002, 06:17 PM
All of them are but i dont know if Wing Chun is i dont think it is there is also Hakka Unicorn style .

BearBear
10-18-2002, 06:43 PM
thanks.. can u give me a summery of the hakka unicorn style? characteristics, training methods, principles, technqiues..

i know there is hakka unicorn dance ..... do u mean that??

bearbear

FIRE HAWK
10-18-2002, 08:16 PM
I dont mean the Hakka Unicorn Dance but the actual Hakka Unicorn fighting style it uses the Short Eagle Claw the Two Sword Fingers the Phoenix Eye Fist the palms elbows Ridge Hand knees elbows and uses whipping Ging and has some short forms and things like that . The Hakka Unicorn style is a rare Chinese Art and not many people have seen it it is taught in Hawaii and China and is kept secret mainly only Hakka Chinese or Chinese people get to learn it .

FIRE HAWK
10-18-2002, 08:31 PM
There is also a nan Tong Long Southern Mantis art called Iron Ox Southern Mantis it is similar to the other three Southern Mantis arts Jook Lum , Chu gar , Chow Gar , Iron Ox Southern Mantis was used in the Boxer Rebellion and there is a book on the art .

BearBear
10-25-2002, 07:47 PM
Thanks firehawk ..

do u have any other info, urls, etc on the hakka arts?


do u study a hakka art?

bearbear

FIRE HAWK
10-31-2002, 02:47 AM
I use to study the Hakka Unicorn style and Chuka Shaolin Phoenix Eye Fist but gave up studying them i will find some Hakka Websites for you basically they are Southern Mantis , Lung Ying , Pak Mei , websites not much on the other strange Hakka Arts . BearBear What Style do you practice ?

FIRE HAWK
01-14-2003, 09:27 PM
How Many Hakka systems have you herd of like Chu Gar , Chow Gar, Jook Lum, Iron Ox Southern Mantis , Hakka Lee Gar , Hakka Unicorn style , Hakka Snake system , Hakka Ying Jow system , even Chuka Shaolin Phoenix Eye Fist has been called a Hakka Dragon System or part Chu Gar Southern Mantis .

Shaolin Master
01-14-2003, 10:15 PM
Too many :)

FIRE HAWK
01-15-2003, 08:56 PM
I would like to here the names of them it would be very interesting ?

Shaolin Master
01-15-2003, 09:27 PM
Lei Ga Gao, Lum Ga Gao, Ju Ga Gao(2 one from ShanTou and another from Meizhou regions), Ji Ga Gao, laumunPai (hakka branch), kunlunpai, ChongGaGao, ChowGaGao.........then there are the BakMei, LongYing, otherNamtonglongs, etc......

BearBear
01-16-2003, 03:56 AM
Phillip Lam of New Zealand teaches Lee Ga Gao also a hakka style though he is heavily into muay thai the last 10 or so years .. "father of nz muay thai" i think he still techers some dedicated students the fighting art of lee ga gao (not related to lee ga nan tong long)

anyone else have information on lee ga gao

or any of the other styles mentioned?

Shaolin Master
01-16-2003, 07:01 AM
I have information on all the arts I mentioned. What would you like to know?

meltdawn
01-16-2003, 09:36 AM
Shaolin Master,

I would be interested in hearing your experiences of Lau Mun Gao.

Are you in China for an extended period?

GeneChing
01-16-2003, 10:07 AM
Hakka (or karjia in pinyin) literally means "guest clan." I've heard Hakka compared to gypsies in old Europe, but I don't think that is fair since it implies nomadic behavior that is exists but is not universal amongst hakka. In Cantonese, it often refers to a select immigrant minority that spoke a specific dialect termed hakka. But in more a general sense, all immigrants are considered karjia, so this can be a real sticky question. In Taiwan for example, there were two waves of karjia - one being the classical hakka speakers that we generally think of when we use the term hakka, but then there was another one, refugees from the fallen Ming dynasty back in the 1600's. They are still consided karjia, even though they don't speak hakka (they adopted the local dialect called minnan to escape persecution.) Their dominent styles were qinxi tang and taizu changquan. This same notion can be loosley applied to all immigrants, which opens the door to stuff like Indonesian Kuntao being a hakka style (Kuntao is a derivation of the Cantonese Kuen Do "fist way" pinyin quan dao.) It's quite the pandora's box...

FIRE HAWK
01-16-2003, 02:52 PM
In the Tuttle dictionary of martial arts Chuka Shaolin Phoenix Eye Fist is listed as being called Jyu Ga i wonder if this Ju Ga Gao that is mentioned is the same as Chuka Shaolin ?

Firehawk4
02-15-2006, 03:53 AM
This style of fighting was created early in the 18th century by Hong Jiucho a big Hakka man who had trained somewhat in a Shaolin temple but who was kicked out due to his agressive nature, and penchance for womanizing. He returned to his village in central China took a wife and returned to helping his family on the farm. He lived quietly helping his family and his wife bore a son a year after he had returned. Not until a small group of bandits came to terrorize his village soon after his son was born did he think much of his training but when he was able to kill their leader and three other of his men with their bare hands did he realize that what he had learned could be of some use. He tried to remember what he could of what he had learned at the monestary and combined it with what he knew about living with his family and in the village. He gathered a group of strong young men together and in his family's barn, taught them how to fight with their hands and with what simple weapons could be gathered from the village. When another group of bandits, much larger than the last, arrived Hong and his militia were able to defeat them without too much damage to the village, though many militia men and some villagers, most notably his wife died. Hong saw this as a success, though a poor one and further refined his teachings.

Around five years later all men in his village was trained in Hong's way of fighting. Hong deciding to learn more about fighting, passed off his instruction to his chief student Ling Xiuhua and went off to wander China in search of knowledge about fighting.

After ten years in Hong returned to his village, which had grown into a small town. Through the time he had been gone and the changes in his appearance no one recognized him. He went to his family's house and was not welcomed due to his wayward behavior. His son, Hong Xiao, however recognized him and helped Hong get his bearings around the city. Hong eventually got to a great building which had a sign outside it which declared it as "Ling's School of Fighting" He got so angry his shout scared all the birds and animals away from the school. When students came to investigate what the noise was Hong had somehow battered through the great wooden doors and stood in the courtyard yelling for Ling to show himself. Ling went down to see this man and did not recognize him. Hong declared himself but Ling still did not know who he was. Hong demanded that Ling turn the school over to him as it was rightfully his but Ling responded that he did not know who he was. Hong yelled some more before Ling directed some of his students to kick out the mad man that had come into his school. Two students grabbed his arms and started to drag Hong out but Hong threw them away as if they were children. More students moved to beat Hong but he fought them off with a ferocity unparalleled knocking students away with a sweep of his massively strong arms. Some brought staves and spears but those that struck at Hong were caught and broken. Eventually Hong's son brought his parents to the school to verify who he was but not after the battle had gone on for several minutes. Ling then apologized to Hong for his mistake and Hong after he had calmed down also apologized for being rash.

Hong, not being allowed back to his family's home, lived in the school and worked to repair the damage he had cause to the building and the students. Hong's son also went to the school to live with his father to learn about fighting. When the people there had learned to trust him he became very popular for his teaching and for his stories about his travels around China. He and Ling later on, wrote a book about what they had learned about fighting and Hong's travels around China. This was accomplished with the help of some of their students who could write because Hong and Ling were illiterate. Within that book the name Fei Chui was decided on by all as the name of their school's art. Titled simply "The Book of Instruction" many copies of the book were sold, more for Hong's stories than the knowledge about fighting. Hong taught at the school for twenty more years before he died. Ling died shortly after. The leadership of the school was passed onto Hong Xiao who further worked to refine what his father and Ling Xiuhua had taught.

The school did well in its area. And when Hong Xiuquan came around to preach his word of god that would later spark the Taiping (Great Peace) rebellion the students of Fei Chui were drawn the promise of greater things as were many other Hakka. Also Hong Xiuquan's anti-Qing (Manchu, Ch'ing) policies were similar to Hong Jiucho's feelings about the Qing who he blamed for not helping his village against the bandits, feelings which he instilled into the teachings of Fei Chui. Fei Chui practicioners taught some of the soldiers as best they could to better fight the Qing and Fei Chui practicioners made up the elite of Hong Xiuquan's Heavenly army but in the end the rebellion falls to British guns, madness and bad luck. The Fei Chui practicioners move quietly out from their home town, where Hong Jiucho founded Fei Chui and into obscurity passing their art from parent to child for a long time until the late 1980s where a Chinese scholar with one of the original copies of Hong's book of instruction searches for and finds practicioners of Fei Chui and brings it into the limelight.

During the modern period Fei Chui practicioners banded together into very tight knit societies with secret methods of recognizing other practicioners. In World War one and two they fought the Japanese covertly sabotaging what they could and killing soldiers when they could get away with it. When the Nationalist and Communist parties fought for control of China the majority of Fei Chui practicioners sided with the Communist party for the promise of more equality between the peoples of China. This went along until the Communists began to repress chinese culture and onwards into the contemporary period where the Chinese government tries to extinguish mystical groups like the Faloongung. Fei Chui practitioners do what they can to subvert and otherwise disturb the governments attempts to crush the people. Due to their secretive nature and generally anti-establisment tendancies many Fei Chui practicioners find themselves working with/for the Triads.

Fighting Style
The fighting style borrows much from other extremely close in fighting styles like Pheonix Fist as in that it is aggressive almost to the point of being over aggressive. The character will try to close to grappling range the overpower the enemy with superior strength and speed, mostly with upper body attacks. The form has changed somewhat from its origin to the contemporary period as in it the agressiveness has been tempered. A modern Fei Chui practicioner evaluates his opponent first before he engages and tries to negate his opponents' strengths if possible by keeping him off balance with rapid and continuous strikes. Also some grappling moves have been added to the Fei Chui abilities due to its involvement in close quarters combat.

Philosophical Notes:
Fei Chui practitioners follow a code that is a mixture of self reliance and trust between fellow practitioners and family. If a Fei Chui practitioner discovers another practitioner he must not fight him. Fei Chui practitioners can also if necessary seek shelter with another practitioner as long as the other one is satisfied that the one seeking shelter is truly a Fei Chui practitioner. Fei Chui practitioners must respect family and teachers and also must protect people against an unfair government or other external forces like the Japanese or exploitive buisnesses.

Stance: Boxer-like stance, hands extended comfortably at about shoulder level, dominant hand behind the non-dominant hand, both made into fists. Feet in a comfortable distance apart with the non dominant side leading.

Costume: Traditionally a kung fu outfit, though modern training doesn't care much for formality in this respect.

GreenCloudCLF
02-15-2006, 07:57 AM
http://www.chinesearms.com/newitems1/feichui.htm

Not a style, but a weapon.....

GeneChing
02-16-2006, 11:03 AM
Some styles, particularly those connected with secret societies, take their names from weapons, like say the xiaodaohui (small blade society). Particularly with the Hakka clans, this could easily mutate into a name of a particular fighting style. Just look at how muddy the Hongmen/Hung Ga terms can be.

BTW, did you catch our article, Origins of the Hakka People and Their Martial Arts By Adrian Chan-Wyles in our Mar Apr 2006 issue (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=646)?

kungfuyou
03-02-2006, 01:14 PM
...

BTW, did you catch our article, Origins of the Hakka People and Their Martial Arts By Adrian Chan-Wyles in our Mar Apr 2006 issue (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=646)?


Just got it and reading it a bit later!! :)

Fung Ngan
03-08-2006, 01:33 AM
What a great story. Sounds a bite like the Hakka Wanders/Beggars style. But secrecy/protection is found in all Hakka arts. Pity so little is known about this style. Some extra info can be found on this url (http://taiping.ca/art/feichui.htm). The creed of this style seems to be: 'Hit first, hit strongly and continue'.
The Hakka name for the Flying Hammer/ 飛錘 is (in most common Mexian) 'Fui Chui', in Cantonese Jyutping 'Fei Ceoi '.

____________________
http://www.pakmeipai.nl

CFT
03-08-2006, 06:27 AM
What a great story. Sounds a bite like the Hakka Wanders/Beggars style. But secrecy/protection is found in all Hakka arts. Pity so little is known about this style. Some extra info can be found on this url (http://taiping.ca/art/feichui.htm). The creed of this style seems to be: 'Hit first, hit strongly and continue'.That site is a role-playing/gaming site. All online references to Fei Chui kung fu point back to this, so we can't really tell if it is fictional or not.

Note the sections about Character Bonuses, Attacks Per Melee, Level Advancement Bonuses, etc.

fiercest tiger
03-08-2006, 05:02 PM
I thought its for the art of throwing small objects!?

Firehawk4
03-08-2006, 07:02 PM
Here is the link were i got the information on this style of Hakka Kung Fu
http://www.asiawind.com/forums/read.php?f=1&i=2806&t=2766

Firehawk4
03-08-2006, 07:08 PM
http://www.asiawind.com/forums/read.php?f=1&i=2774&t=2766&v=f

bigbear1
07-18-2006, 04:42 PM
If anyone is instrested Johnnie hui came from H.K. in the 70's and stayed with chan wah at Edmonton AB. Johnnie was the #1 student in Canada at the time and He taught the dragon and bak mei style to Chan Wah. Johnnie Hui now lives in Vancouver and well worth the look up as he is the first or one of the first to teach the dragon style in public. He taught at the green dragon School. His teacher was Chow Fook.

Fu-Pau
07-18-2006, 07:06 PM
Haka... first and last story:

http://media.putfile.com/haka87

;)

fiercest tiger
07-18-2006, 08:31 PM
Jesus that is bring back the past or what?

I think they all had the same teacher.....:eek:

Ao Qin
07-20-2006, 06:13 PM
:) Hi bigbear1 - please check your pm.

Interesting for this topic to be resurected after 5 years...a good lesson for everyone on these forums - "make your words sweet, not sour, because someday, you may have to eat them".

I have an article written by JH - very well done!

Cheers - kevin

kungpow
08-13-2006, 06:28 PM
in reply to post #13. from what i understand through jook lum lineage is that spm is not a hakka art in origin, though, it was introduced to the hakka dock workers through the poison snake cheung yel chung. from what i understand, som dot is the creator and also a monk though i do not know thru what temple he belonged.

5thBrother
08-11-2007, 07:20 AM
TTT

for anything/everything interesting with "Hakka Arts"??

wu-ji
08-13-2007, 01:06 AM
Kun Tao is Minan (Hokkian)'s term for Quan Dao. Some of Indonesian "Kuntao" are Hokkian, some are Hakka. It depends on the area. Some still have traceable lineages to China, some have been in the country for too long time and might evolve and adapt to the local needs.

The traceable lineages go to Wuzuquan, Nan Taizuquan, Baihequan, Nan Tanglangquan, etc.

West Borneo is big in Hakka population and hence Hakka arts are common there.

In places like North Sumatera, Jakarta, and Central Java, it is more southern Fujian, the Wuzu and Taizu are strongly Taizu oriented.

In East Java, it is big in Fuqing's population and the Wuzu and Baihe are more Fuzhou Baihequan oriented.

Of course, this is a generalization and not strict.

In addition, the teachers often do not reveal the lineage until the students are rather advanced. This is to avoid the wrong usage of lineage's name. Hence, the generic name, "kuntao", is used.

Fu-Pau
08-13-2007, 08:19 AM
The All Black Haka is the best and most feared. Fact. ;)

Nicrimo
08-15-2007, 12:04 AM
are there rare and old hakka styles? and what are their names?

diego
06-21-2010, 03:42 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iay3pRtNm_k&feature=channel

What styles use short power with the PI fist and is Henry Sue a real Grandmaster?. I don't know anything about Hakka styles except that it's easy for frauds to make money promoting phony videos and Southern Praying Mantis has nothing to do with an actual Mantis...

What's the 411 on the Hakka styles who's running the show in all the branches and how many are there?.

SPM and Chow Gar are they different? I only really know the history of CLF, WC and Hung Ga Hong Kong related family styles.

I would wiki the history of the Hakka but there are so many frauds out there why waste my time:)
http://en-gb.facebook.com/posted.php?id=123007574378224

5thBrother
06-22-2010, 12:29 AM
Chow Gar TONG LONG (Chow Family [Southern] Praying Mantis) and Chow Gar (by the 5 Chow Brothers) and completely different systems

Chow/Chou/Jow/etc

Henry Sue brother of Malcolm Sue were both students of Nat Yuen who was a major person introducted Chow Gar Tong Long to Australia in the 1950s

Chow Gar is one of the Main systems of SPM.

Henry's tong long has changed to his own method/system of chow gar tong long and is no longer a direct part of Ip Sui's CGTL line.

The form you showed is Sam Bo Jin with slight change from Ip Sui's line.

Henry Sue's School - The Chinese Kung Fu Academy
http://www.chinesekungfuacademy.com/

sanjuro_ronin
06-22-2010, 05:43 AM
Expanding a bit on what 5th brother said, most Hakka systems were family systems and as such they tended to be "OK" with personal interpretation within the system.
Chow ga is no exception.
The main lines of SPM are:
Chow Ga
Chu Ga
Jook lum ( there are a few lines within Jook lum)
Iron Ox

Of course you will see variation in methods and training and even the forms WITHIN the very systems and more so from system to system.
As an example:
The SPM I picked up and I am still working on was from the temple in Macao and it is heavily laced with Hung Kuen.

diego
06-22-2010, 11:32 AM
Thanks for the replies you guys. I have done some longfist from hop ga and now my sifu has me working on perfecting Bak Mei Sup Gee focusing on making my postures tighter so short ging or small power is my total focus right now. I read that SPM has nothing to do with the northern insect style of Shaolin the name was adopted as a political cover is this correct?.

TenTigers
06-22-2010, 11:56 AM
y'know, it's funny. That is the story I heard, and to me , it makes sense, as the royal family was being hunted down and executed, so to hide the origins of the system seems logical.
However some schools have different 'Historical origins" that mention Mantis-but many of them echo Wong Long's Mantis and Cicada story, so I raise an eyebrow.

sanjuro_ronin
06-22-2010, 12:00 PM
I heard it was a version of Bak Mei, also heard it was a version of dragon shape boxing.
Probably just a family system that was highly effective and that got press in the right places.
As for the origins, TCMA love to invent origins, they just can't admit that some poor slob took what he knew, perfected it and put his name on it.
No need for mysterious monk, no need for "animal influence", just plain old hard working and punching people in the face.

taai gihk yahn
06-22-2010, 01:45 PM
just plain old hard working and punching people in the face.
just noting some subtext here...:p

Faruq
06-22-2010, 01:52 PM
I got this from PakMei.net: "The grandmaster is now Cheung Bin Lam. The senior in North America is Chan Dor 1 2 . Any other claims are not truthful."

Of course Bak Mei is considered a Hakka Fist.

diego
06-22-2010, 03:47 PM
We know Hung Ga used to be like wing chun small frame but with the tiger shape and then it mixed with white crane becoming the forms popular from HK...so like before Cheung Lai Chuen's time what families were the main holders of hakka small frame Pheonix Eye fist shadowboxings?:D I got the scoop on CLC from my school. I'm curious what his cousins were up to, just like the historical popular fitness ideas prevalent within the Hakka populated regions of Asia.

BM doesn't like to use hard power too much as it causes arthritis...:cool: That's idea #1 lol

5thBrother
07-16-2010, 02:49 AM
Check out the Southern Praying Mantis Forums for more info:

http://www.tonglong.co.uk/forum/

Check out http://www.ozmaforums.com for Aussie Tong Long info ... Although i Think they link to the SPM Forums but yeah....

Faruq
07-16-2010, 06:51 AM
Check out the Southern Praying Mantis Forums for more info:

http://www.tonglong.co.uk/forum/

Check out http://www.ozmaforums.com for Aussie Tong Long info ... Although i Think they link to the SPM Forums but yeah....

Are there Bak Mei forums somewhere on the net too?

LaterthanNever
07-17-2010, 09:25 PM
Where to start. Well..lets see. Deigo..thanks for opening this up for discussion.

While I know that Chow Ga(s. praying mantis) is not the same as Jow Ga(GM Dean Chin,etc.), perhaps someone could answer the following for me?

1.) Do all styles of SPM have sets/applications with the Phoenix eye fist? If not all, which branches(Iron Ox, Jook Lum, which?) do?

2.) Is there anyone in the USA who teaches the SPM forms of the "Chukka" SPM style?(there was a book written by Master Mark Wiley and GM Cheong Cheng Leong which has those forms). I'm aware that GM Leong teaches in Malaysia but that is a bit far..

Thanks all.

Best,
LTN

Mas Judt
07-24-2010, 07:29 PM
LTM - the Chuka Phoenix Eye Fist style from Malaysia is not South Mantis. It bears some superficial resemblance, perhaps somewhere down the line has some common roots, but it is something different.

I've talked to a number of Martial Art historians - they all tend to agree that the fundamentals of the various Hakka styles have their origins in the Dongguan region. Out of these peculiar methods, three systems gained fame - SPM, BM and LY.

From the stories I was told, all of these systems founders had some relation to each other - and the mythical origins are just that. The names of the various founders often have meaning within different 'secret society' or mythical code.

Now - I'm not the expert on this history, I'm just passing info on. I've heard multiple sources discuss this - both from the Bak Mei and SPM worlds...

Mas Judt
07-24-2010, 07:31 PM
LTN - One more thing.

There is a 'Chuka SPM' style, but it is not found in Malaysia - it is found in the USA. Sifu Sammy Wong taught this method in Chicago. There are a few folks out in the Chicago area (Tony Blum, Joel Gunderson) and one in Ventura, Ca (Manny Rodriguez) - plus a few folks who prefer to be private.

Firehawk4
03-30-2014, 03:55 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBMMDQIh0HU

GeneChing
04-30-2015, 11:53 AM
Kung fu archivist in Hong Kong seeks Unesco listing for Hakka style of the martial art (http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/education-community/article/1781167/kung-fu-archivist-hong-kong-seeks-unesco-listing)
PUBLISHED : Thursday, 30 April, 2015, 3:01am
UPDATED : Thursday, 30 April, 2015, 3:01am
Elizabeth Cheung elizabeth.cheung@scmp.com

http://www.scmp.com/sites/default/files/styles/486x302/public/2015/04/29/7168d5d17596f6b501212715caade371.jpg?itok=-5Ws2VaD
Hung Kuen master Oscar Lam Chun-ho records some moves at the CityU Hong Kong Martial Arts Living Archive in Kowloon. Photo: K. Y. Cheng

An archivist who is preserving kung fu in Hong Kong is hoping to get the Hakka style onto Unesco's intangible cultural heritage list - with the ultimate goal being the protection of every style of the martial art.

"[Martial arts] is becoming lost at a more alarming rate than most people realise," said Hing Chao, chief executive of the International Guoshu Association, which is part of a joint project with City University, that uses 3D motion capture technology to preserve kung fu styles for future generations.

Using technology developed at the university, kung fu styles can be captured as animation.

More than 120 sets of kung fu styles and forms have already been documented in the Hong Kong Martial Arts Living Archive project since 2013. More than 40 kung fu masters have participated to preserve 19 styles, including Wing Chun and Lam Family Hung Kuen, so far.

Mary Jean Reimer, wife of the late kung fu master Lau Kar-leung, said she had mixed feelings about the archive, as it fulfilled a dream she had always had.

"I couldn't complete the archive [of Lau's kung fu] before he passed away two years ago his illness held us [back]," said Reimer, whose Lau Kar-leung Film Boxing Director Charitable Foundation donated HK$130,000 - the largest single amount - to the archive.

"I really want to cry. This is what Lau could have done," Reimer said, after watching a motion capture demonstration.

She added that she hopes the project will someday be able to document how to master Lau's three-section whip - a two-metre long, bronze weapon.

The project raised around HK$266,000 between last August and March through the assistance of FringeBacker, an online crowdfunding platform. The digital archive aims to record up to 300 sets of kung fu by the end of next year and will be available to the public as an online archive, though there is no timeframe for completion.

Meanwhile, the association embarked on a martial arts survey two months ago, interviewing people from different styles with photography and film. Seven masters, mostly from the Hakka style, have taken part in the project so far.

Chao, who practises southern-style kung fu, says he hopes for something beyond documentation to preserve the martial art, which is why he is seeking Unesco cultural protection.



Wing Chun (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?67999-Wing-Chun-s-Intangible-Cultural-Heritage-bid)started an intangible heritage bid process last year.

PalmStriker
04-30-2015, 12:34 PM
:) the 3-D animated style capture project sounds about right. Preservation of TCMA styles with online access is the way to go. Unesco status a plus!

GeneChing
09-14-2016, 07:49 AM
This looks great. Anyone in Hong Kong now that can cover it?


Datebook: Multimedia Exhibition on 300 Years of Hakka Kung Fu at Hong Kong Heritage Museum (http://hk.blouinartinfo.com/news/story/1518222/datebook-multimedia-exhibition-on-300-years-of-hakka-kung-fu)
BY BLOUIN ARTINFO | SEPTEMBER 09, 2016

http://hk.blouinartinfo.com/sites/default/files/1_774.jpg
."The Kung Fu Studio - 360"
(Courtesy: Hong Kong Heritage Museum)

VENUES
Hong Kong Heritage Museum

'300 Years of Hakka Kung Fu: Digital Vision of its Legacy and Future', a traditional and new media exhibition exploring the origin, development and future of Hakka martial arts, is on view at the Hong Kong Heritage Museum, Sha Tin, from September 2, through September 30, 2016.

Hakka travelled for 300 years from mountainous areas in eastern Guangdong to the center of the Lignan region. In the course of gradual migration from mountains to urban centers, Hakka Kung Fu transformed into a novel forms owing to constant interaction with neighboring cultures and finally appeared as one of the most significant cultural heritages in southern China. Jointly presented by the ICH Office and the International Guoshu Association, and curated by the Hakka Kung Fu Culture Research Society and the Centre for Applied Computing and Interactive Media, this demonstration gives an interpretation of the advancement of Hakka Kung Fu using 3D multimedia technology.


The exhibition is on view at Hong Kong Heritage Museum, 1 Man Lam Rd, Sha Tin, Hong Kong. For details, visit, hk.heritage.museum

GeneChing
05-22-2018, 03:02 PM
The Long and Short of the Hakka 5 Element Staff
By Williy Pang

http://www.kungfumagazine.com/admin/site_images/KungfuMagazine/upload/7325_KFM2018-June-Cover.jpg
May+June 2018 (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=1412)

GeneChing
07-12-2018, 09:17 AM
READ That’s Using Your Head; Hakka Headbutting Tactics By Williy Pang in our SUMMER 2018 issue (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=1420).

http://www.kungfumagazine.com/admin/site_images/KungfuMagazine/upload/2684_KFM2018-Summer-Cover.jpg

THREADS:
Headbutting (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?9412-Headbutting)
The Hakka Arts (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?17017-The-Hakka-Arts)

GeneChing
10-02-2019, 09:18 AM
Hakka community hosts martial arts show(1/8) (http://www.ecns.cn/hd/2019-09-27/detail-ifzpknpx2078552.shtml)
2019-09-27 10:53:50Ecns.cn Editor :Yao Lan 0
查看原图View the list of pictures

http://www.ecns.cn/hd/2019/09/27/fcd40b2f2dc1432e843c09e581bd8673.jpghttp://www.ecns.cn/hd/2019/09/27/26947b22479f45d1b85a44d9c156d7a1.jpghttp://www.ecns.cn/hd/2019/09/27/c8f12f2f0053443288bb97bd8d9581fe.jpghttp://www.ecns.cn/hd/2019/09/27/ee2f9388728a4e89ace6b7bb7ca75957.jpghttp://www.ecns.cn/hd/2019/09/27/c2df978f36ff4dc988d93b5d2eeabd5f.jpghttp://www.ecns.cn/hd/2019/09/27/d79dcc81f2514e6795a91f7744eb570a.jpghttp://www.ecns.cn/hd/2019/09/27/36af671178224ce1a56d22bd7011e6d4.jpghttp://www.ecns.cn/hd/2019/09/27/8c8ce0547c4c48cbb564cdfe84c3282f.jpg

Shanghang County in Fujian Province, known for Hakka community, hosts a show of martial arts on Sept. 26, 2019, with many practitioners showing various forms of martial arts, some including the use of traditional weapons. (Photo: China News Service/Zhang Bin)

That brush thing looks cool. Wish this article had more details...:o

Tea Serpent
08-06-2020, 06:31 PM
Most of the stuff there is modern performance stage wushu stuff and modern performance "Daoist" hybrid Taiji stuff.
There is a big push to make martial arts look like super high class scholar warrior fantasy fine arts. Part of that is trying to link them with calligraphy. I've seen a few examples like that of people doing random vague hand waiving Neo-Wudang "Daoist" nonsense with big paint brushes.
It's not anything traditional though.

The stuff shown there that is somewhat connected to local Hakka arts is mostly so called "Wumei Quan" (called Wu Mei Hua Zhuang Ba Fa Quan).
I'll be honest I'm not a fan of that lady. She isn't very skilled from what I've seen. But she went to the media and completely lied abiout the origins and history of the style making up a story that is purely her own creation and completely at odds with both the known history of the style and the oral traditions of the style. But by doing that she got lots of media attention and got sole official recognition as the traditional inheritor of the style, the writing out the actual skilled traditional masters of the style.
Looking at the number of students she is very successful with it as local students come to her, the sole successor recognized by the media and government. Plus the story she made up about it being a style only taught to Hakka women has basically disenfranchised all the She ethnic group men who were the people who actually historically practiced the style

Aside from that the last picture is a teacher of Liancheng Quan, the most popular system among local Hakka in that area.