Daft chi sao question?

[Mr Punch]

Big guy, good forward pressure, great sensitivity, good rooting, traps only when necessary and when he does it ties you up like a novice, strong, well positioned and relentless strikes...

Fish out of water without constant contact...

Is it desirable/acceptible/necessary to deliberately break contact with him when changing angles to break his rhythm and gain body structure advantage?

Or should this tactic wait for the initial bridge establishment in sparring?

You're not trying to beat him in chi sao, just to experiment... may be it's a more productive learning curve to break the rules in this case...?

[kj]

Originally posted by Mat
Big guy, good forward pressure, great sensitivity, good rooting, traps only when necessary and when he does it ties you up like a novice, strong, well positioned and relentless strikes...

Fish out of water without constant contact...

Is it desirable/acceptible/necessary to deliberately break contact with him when changing angles to break his rhythm and gain body structure advantage?

Or should this tactic wait for the initial bridge establishment in sparring?

You're not trying to beat him in chi sao, just to experiment... may be it's a more productive learning curve to break the rules in this case...?

Good experiment. I say go for it, at least once or a few times to see what happens.

I can't really read your scenario via this medium, but here is my prediction:

If he really has a) good positioning and b) great sensitivity as you describe, along with any decent amount of "intention" or appropriate reflexes, then his "rhythm" should have very little to do with his response, IMHO. What "ought" to happen when you release is that he'll hit the he!! out of you. His forward pressure which you mentioned should be conveniently and appropriately aimed to accomplish this. If he doesn't, then perhaps you'll both learn something.

Just MHO of course, and presuming I have the slightest understand what you're trying to describe.

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[vingtsunstudent]

if he's all that you say and doesn't just follow and smack you when you try to break contact then he odviously has a problem understanding wing chun and that could be one advantage you could look at.
you didn't mention was whether or not he had good footwork and understood well about angles of attack and defence, so here again you may gain an advantage if you are better in these areas. or whether or not he had a good centre and understood how to use that, again this where you having perhaps a better centre and better understanding of the angles and footwork could serve you well.
one thing to remember, and i have seen many make the mistake of this too, once you take the angle or disengage, is not to change sides when he does attack or defend as this leaves your centre open, even though it is but for a mere split second that is more than enough time, esp. with someone with good feel and good foward pressure to regain the centre and control of the situation.
other than that your only chance here is to train harder and become better than him at what you say he is already good or great at.
vts

[anerlich]

Short term:

If he's better at contact sensitivity and trapping than you, you're probably going to lose.

If it's chi sao, do the drill, learn by losing.

If it's sparring, and you're better than he out of contact range, try and hit him at a distance (break and avoid contact, yes). If other parts of his game are worse than yours, put him out of his comfort zone if you can.

If it's a fight or defense situation, run away because you're probably going to get a beating.

Long term:

Try and make friends with the guy and find out how he got so good. Follow his example, train harder and more often than he does until one day you can whoop his a$$ - unless the desire passes because you're training partners now.

Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent - Calvin Coolidge (I think :confused: )

[Wingman]

If he (the big guy) is like a fish out of water when there is no contact; then I think it is a good idea to disengage especially if you are in a disadvantageous situation. He cannot use his superior sensitivity to his advantage without contact. Without contact, he (the big guy) will have to use his eye reflexes. Since there is no mention about his eye reflexes, then I assume that it is not as good as his sensitivity during contact.

If you are doing chi sao; I don't agree that you deliberately break contact for no reason at all. Disengage only when necessary.

[EnterTheWhip]

Originally posted by Mat
Is it desirable/acceptible/necessary to deliberately break contact with him when changing angles to break his rhythm and gain body structure advantage? No. This is not what chi sau is for.


Or should this tactic wait for the initial bridge establishment in sparring?Sparring? What does sparring have to do with Wing Chun? You've got to decide what you're training for...


You're not trying to beat him in chi sao, just to experiment... may be it's a more productive learning curve to break the rules in this case...? You basically answered your own question. No. You know the answer, but you're stuck on winning (assuming that that is at all possible in chi sau). You simply want to feed your ego, rather than work through your own deficiencies. And it seems that he is the PERFECT partner to do this with. A blessing in disguise, so don't waste your time.