Lactic Acid Issues

[Shisio]

Hello everybody,
For a while now I've been having trouble flushing the lactic acid out of my body.

Here's my lifting routine- I warm up for 10-20 min, then I lift weights (not to burn out though) and then swim some laps for cool down. That day I feel fine, even the next day I feel ok- but just a little sore. But on days like today, 2 days after my work out I feel like I just challenged Ron Biliki to a match (in which I would be pulverized). Though more specifically, the soreness and tightness in my muscles feels like Lactic acid that I just can't seem to flush out. I've tried drinking virtually a gallon of H2O daily, though that still didn't help much.

Does anybody have any idea of what nutrients I'm missing out on, and/or how to get them? I've heard that the acid in blackberries can help with this- is there any truth to that suggestion? Or should I run on my off days to try to flush out the acid, of coarse that might deplete my muscles of even more oxygen. Are there any pre & post workout meals that would help with this? I know I've asked alot but this has been a prob for me for about a year, so if I can fix this it'd be great.
Thanx

[Ford Prefect]

Two days after your workout is generally when you'll feel Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness (DOMS) the most. It is natural to be in a state like this for a week or two when starting a new routine, but anything past that, you are overdoing it.

Drinking a meal shake 5-15 minutes after your workout will also help prevent DOMS and get your body out of a catabolic state. If you don't have the money for an MRP, then chocolate milk is a great substitute... good number of carbs and protein.

[Former castleva]

If you ain´t doing it yet...start doing it during one of these days.
Stretching,shall help.
:)

[abobo]

Here some general guidlines that I know of that should minimize soreness, although a year of continued problems is probably an issue beyond what I can tell you. Sounds like you have some of these covered already.

Before workout:
1) Eat something for energy
eg. handful of nuts, energy bar, bagel, or sandwich
2) Be hydrated
3) Include proper warm up and stretching

During workout:
1) Use overload techniques judiciously
2) Continue stretching
3) Get out of there in an hour

Post-workout:
1) Stretch*
2) Alternating hot/cold shower
3) Take protein and simple carbs within the hour
4) Try a dash of glutamine**
5) Replenish your fluids

Post post workout:
1) Get your sleep.

* I know there has been some dispute about the correlation between stretching and soreness, but even so, why waste the opportunity to stretch when your muscles are warm?

** Buy whatever is cheapest.

[IronFist]

Some people say that Glutamine reduces the amount of soreness. Try 5g or so after a workout, or each day. It's supposed to help the immune system, too.

When I tried it it just made my stomach hurt.

IronFist

[Shisio]

Thanks for the imput, I never heard of the Glutamine method. I'll give it a whirl along with some of the other things you guys have suggested. But just so ya know, I usually strech a whole lot, even after reps (but gently). Anyway, thanks for the input.

[Jamesbond_007]

L-Glutamine works great to releave soreness. It is an amino acid and like Iron fist says you should take 5 grams a day. Start to take Vitamins also. Daily, I take a multi vitamin, vitamin C, minerals without Iron, and antioxidens. I lift a lot and do push to the max almost every time and only get sore when I change my workout monthly. When I do get very sore I try to eat a lot of bananas because the potasium in them help break down the lactic acid,

[rubthebuddha]

vitamin c is good in general, but it helps repair and flush after a solid workout.

i also suggest trying creatine. the opinions of creatine on this board vary substantially, which is why i suggest TRYING. i use it lightly, and i feel better in general when i do. i'm sore for less time after a hard workout, and i have more energy during the day.

however, like iron and glutamine, it may just give you a sick stomach. it all depends on the person.

[ElPietro]

Muscle Soreness has nothing to do with lactic acid. It is normal. If you don't want it then basically stop training, or train differently. It is normal to experience this soreness, and common on the second day. I would disagree with Ford on the one week thing. I don't know too many people who train and don't get muscle soreness on the second day and this is with people that have trained for years.

I wouldn't recommend glutamine either. Your body gets it abundantly from food already, so unless you are on a very colorie restricted diet, there isn't much reason that I have evern seen to use glutamine. And if that doesn't stop you, well it's pretty ****ed expensive too.

Generally muscle soreness is the worst when you first start out after a layoff. So if that's the case stick with it and soon it won't be as bad, but generally it always is there in some way, shape or form.

There isn't any clear cut understanding on the exact workings of what DOMS is for, or what exactly is going on with it, so there is no clear cut way to get rid of it. You can get rid of the soreness for short durations by warming up the muscle, either with heat, or light stretching, or light workouts. This will help promote better circulation to the area. Other than that, I guess just deal with it.

[Jamesbond_007]

Muscle soreness is not caused by lactic acid? Wow I didn't know that, I was told since high school that it was and come to find out (after doing some research on the Internet it doesn't, crazy).
According to what I have found they say muscle soreness is caused by:
It is caused by microtrauma to the muscle fibers. This causes calcium molecule leakage from the muscle fibers (as well as an accumulation of histamines, potassium, prostaglandins and local edema). The sensation of pain and soreness comes due to the pressure of localized edema (fluid retention) on nerve endings, not by the muscle damage itself.Negative-accentuated training often results in severe muscle soreness as it causes the most muscle damage.

Some resources say to help your muscles repair themselves, thus helping eliminate soreness is to have glycogen availablitiy, adecuate circulation and sufficient protein. Most of this is done by eating right, getting your protien, and streching

[ElPietro]

The soreness you get from lactic acid is that burning sensation in the muscle. This occurs after prolonged use of the muscle and lactic acid is flushed in. It generally takes less than a minute for your body to remove lactic acid from the muscle so, that soreness is not the same as the soreness you get a couple days later.

There isn't any 100% difinitive answer to all the cause/effects of muscle soreness. Some people get more sore than others. Some training causes soreness more than others as well. I don't think diet does much to reduce soreness...stretching would temporarily as it is warming up the muscle, providing better circulation, which helps, same as doing a couple light sets of weightlifting to the area. Many lifters do active recovery or feeder workouts to help with recovery and performance. So far the science is a bit grey on this subject.

[Jamesbond_007]

What a great post!!
ElPietro:
thanks for the responses. I have a question though. I am not doubting you but you said that you don't think diet has much to do with reducing soreness. From what I have read lately they do say there is not difinitive answer to eliminate muscle soreness, so I totally agree with you and since everyone's body is different they experience different things. But from what I have read it seems the soreness comes because you damaged or stressed you muscle and it is now in the process of repairing itself. Since protien is the building block of muscle, wouldn't a high protien diet help the muscle repair quicker and thus eliminate muscle soreness quicker than not eating a high protien diet?

What do you think?

[Shisio]

Wow,
Thanx for all the info- Just an update for you folks, Lately I've doubled the amount of multivitamins I take daily, as usually take one with a protein shake after working out and another in the morning. Additionally, I've begun to focus my workouts on the muscles that give me the biggest problems with healing. It's to soon to say, but I'll see how this changes things up for me.

I'll tell you about the worst time this issue ever happened to me- I had done a scaled bicept workout to virtual burnout, and for the next few days I could almost not even straighten my arms! Though I haven't experienced anything quite that intense for some time now.

[SETANSI]

since running cross country in high school I have been told the lactic acid is what causes the burning sencation in sore mucles. Try to reduce the amount of lactic acids you consume in your everyday meals. start reading the ingediants in the foods you eat. Look at a bag of doritos they are loaded with lactic acids. This may help some it did for one of my team mates who ran track.

[Shisio]

Thanx for the input Setansi,
I didn't think that the amount of lactic acid from junk food actually effected the amount my body makes. Since our bodies make lactic acid from the process of aneraerobic glycolysis, I figured if I can just keep more oxygen in my blood (via warm-ups, water, & Tai Chi) then I could prevent the anaerobic cycles. I'll add your input into my diet though, it sounds good to me.

[abobo]

for all your lactic acid needs:
http://sportsmedicine.about.com/library/weekly/aa053101a.htm

[prana]

Originally posted by Former castleva
If you ain´t doing it yet...start doing it during one of these days.
Stretching,shall help.
:)

So true, and often overlooked.

My old sport science teacher trained some of the olympic marathon runners for Australia. She often chants "Stretch and massage" after excercise reduces DOMS.

But then again, DOMS usually doesnt happen with anaerobic training (??) am I missing something (probably :D )

[brothernumber9]

thank you abobo.

That link had some of the most pertinent information for me that I have read in years. I always wondered and hated why that when I am competing in big tournaments ( ones where an hour or more can go bye between events) that I would get such a fatiqued feeling in my legs after just the first or second event. That article gave great insight as to the real culprit of muscle fatigue in relation to an intense physical activity and some logical remedies to alleviate such.

[abobo]

I recently read this article (http://www.cbass.com/SORENESS.HTM) and it was just screaming to be added to this thread.

[Shisio]

Good link, thanx