A question about Al Cheng & Jon Funk [Archive]

loki

10-22-2002, 05:39 PM

In fact Al Cheng was not certified by Wong Hong Fun. Al Ceng's name was not listed on WHF's list of certified instructers under him. In fact Al Cheng went to Hong Kong after Wong Hong Fun's death and asked Wong Hong Fun's son for permission to teach. This was clearly stated by Jon Funk himself. What is puzzling to me is that I don't recall Wong Hong Fun's son being a mantis authority within that lineage who had the power to give anyone permission to teach. Unless of course, the mere fact that he was the son of the master was all that was needed.

That's like going to Linda Lee and asking her permission to teach Jeet Kune Do just because she was BL's wife.:rolleyes:

KickingMantis

10-23-2002, 03:03 PM

Brilliant Response!

Fen

10-23-2002, 06:19 PM

Hope I can help you a little.

In the History of Kung fu, NOT all Great Masters or Sifus get the Privelage to get a paper saying they can teach! What is important is that the master or sifu is respected by his peers and students!

Now, if they are in a Corespondance program, and then go open a school and say that they are a master of "?" and never step foot in a class room, then that's wrong!! Not all of the Great Masters could read & write.

~Jason

BeiTangLang

10-23-2002, 09:39 PM

Originally posted by tao of wushu
Hope I can help you a little.

In the History of Kung fu, NOT all Great Masters or Sifus get the Privelage to get a paper saying they can teach! What is important is that the master or sifu is respected by his peers and students!

Now, if they are in a Corespondance program, and then go open a school and say that they are a master of "?" and never step foot in a class room, then that's wrong!! Not all of the Great Masters could read & write.

~Jason

Playing Devils Advocate here, it appears that this one did give every student he certified a certificate when they reached graduation (without exception so I have heard); So,....Let us know what sifu Funk says when you contact him RAYNYSC. I mean, If your going to ask the question here, it would be a simple task to email him also.
Best Wishes,
~BTL

ursa major

10-24-2002, 06:59 AM

Originally posted by RAYNYSC
Does anyone have any info on Al Cheng?
I know he was Jon Funk's Sifu....
The reason I'm asking is because I heard he was never certified by Wong Hong Fung to teach....

Anyone care to shed some light on this?....
I mean if Al Cheng isn't a Sifu how can Jon Funk be a Sifu?....:confused:

Maybe I missed something here but the last time that I checked only a Sifu can make a Sifu....

Also are there any photos of Al Cheng & Jon Funk together?

Peace :D

Hello RAYNYSC,

I was a member of the martial arts community in Vancouver, B.C. for many years during the 70s and 80s. During that time what I knew of Sifu Al Cheng was this -- he was a very well respected member of the martial arts community of that region, most notably for his contribution to Kung-Fu and in particular Praying Mantis Kung-Fu. Furthermore he was a very committed teacher who had a very loyal following with many friends. This is said to the best of my knowledge and memory.

I would encourage you to contact Sifu Funk to resolve your questions regarding the authenticity of his claims, his status and lineage in the Praying Mantis community.

thx,
UM.

Fen

10-24-2002, 10:05 AM

I also will encourage you to contact Sifu Funk! He is the one to help you in your research. Please do let us know what you do find out.

Here is Sifu Funk info:

Praying Mantis Kung Fu Academy
870 Denman St.,
Vancouver, B.C.,
604-220-4779
Sifu Jon Funk
jfunk@smartt.com
www.mantiskungfu.com

~Jason

RAYNYSC

10-24-2002, 03:44 PM

I got in contact with Sifu Jon Funk & here was his response to my question/s. About him & his Sifu Al Cheng.

Perhaps you could give some idea of who you are and why I should pay attention to such a rude inquirey

Whats up with that all I did was ask 1 or 2 legit questions....
I guess going to the source in case wasn't worth it if I didn't know better I would say that I struck a nerve....:mad:

Peace :D

loki

10-24-2002, 04:53 PM

Typical, Raynysc....typical

Skarbromantis

10-24-2002, 04:58 PM

Dam!!

How did you ask, were you polite?

Skard1

Fen

10-24-2002, 08:09 PM

Sorry to here this!
But if you could tell us all more that was said on both side!
If that would be cool with you?

Thanks
~Jason

Tainan Mantis

10-24-2002, 09:45 PM

I second Skarbromantis' question.

iron_silk

10-25-2002, 02:46 AM

Hi!

I just wanted to share an opinion Sifu Funk may be feeling.

Even though I know you are innocently seeking information, they way you stated in your first post sounds a bit on the accusational offensive side DESPITE you actual intention.

Sounds fair? Because it is important to be polite and humble when asking a master a question, but especially more so when inquiring about their history and those of his master.

The way you put it sounds like you already have an idea that Al Cheng isn't a certified master and therefore just confirming the illegitamcy by asking people...or in this case the person himself.

You may not agree with me or Sifu Jon Funk but that still change what how it appears to others in general.

I wish you luck! Because you brought up a very interesting topic and I was looking forward to his response actually.

In fact at a period of time I was considering going Al Cheng's school.

Good luck man!

ninjaboy

10-25-2002, 02:37 PM

hey raynysc...you asked earlier if there were any pics of al cheng and jon funk together....

you mean, besides like, the cover of "inside kung fu", jan 1986?

oh yeah. and then there's the one on his school's wall. oh, and in another article or two. although i don't recall if it was "black belt" or "inside kung fu".

oivey

btw, i'm signed in as ninjaboy but i go by neo. thx.

neo

RAYNYSC

10-25-2002, 10:02 PM

Hey ninjaboy,
Do you have a copy of that cover of inside kung fu as well as any other photos that may have articles that Sifu Funk has written regaurdless if there "black belt" or "inside kung fu". If so can you scan them & e-mail them to me or better yet can you link them to this forum / post which would be really cool.... :)

Now as for the e-mail that I sent Sifu Jon Funk maybe I was a little harsh maybe not you tell me....

"Sifu Funk, I wanted to get some info on you & your Sifu Al Cheng I was told that your Sifu was never certified by Wong Hong Fun to teach. Is this true & if so how did you become a Sifu if your teacher isn't one. Also do still keep in contact with Sifu Cheng as I've never seen any photos of you & him together in any of the articles that you have written."

Now I will be the first to admit that maybe I was wrong by the way I came out....What I should have said is that I haven't seen any Photos of him ( Jon Funk ) & Al Cheng together in any of the articles that I've read written by him....:D

Peace :D

firepalm

10-26-2002, 12:15 AM

DUH!!!
The words 'jerk off' come to mind.:eek:

Fen

10-26-2002, 02:03 AM

:(

RAYNYSC
"Sifu Funk, I wanted to get some info on you & your Sifu Al Cheng I was told that your Sifu was never certified by Wong Hong Fun to teach. Is this true & if so how did you become a Sifu if your teacher isn't one. Also do still keep in contact with Sifu Cheng as I've never seen any photos of you & him together in any of the articles that you have written."

This is not how you get your questions answered!!

Sifu Funk
Perhaps you could give some idea of who you are and why I should pay attention to such a rude inquirey

I feel that you should apologize to Sifu Funk and tell him why you would like to know this information. Just maybe he will let you in on it! But do not count on it.

~Jason

ninjaboy

10-26-2002, 05:31 AM

testing...my response wasn't posted last night.

ninjaboy

10-26-2002, 05:57 AM

(correction...yes it was. sorry.)

raynysc...

by the way, under the 7 star icon at 'the mantis cave' you will count 31 graduates under wong hun fun as opposed to the 20 that simply have the paper that says so from the man himself. as i see it, you have a lot of emailing to do on this discreditation bandwagon

and i'd be happy to scan the cover with sifus funk and cheng on monday and post it. i think it's a cool cover.

neo

Tainan Mantis

10-26-2002, 06:12 AM

ninjaboy,
Thanks for offering to scan and post that cover

RAYNYSC

10-26-2002, 07:02 AM

Ninjaboy,
I look forward to checking out that cover thanks....:D

Tao so you think I should apologize for what? All I did was ask a legit question regaurdless if it was a little harsh or not.

firepalm, not sure who your calling a jerk off but that name did come to mind ( as in what a jerk off ) when I was reading Sifu Funks 2nd responce to my e-mail.....
Any how thanks for your time guys....:)

Peace :D

Frogman

10-26-2002, 11:39 AM

It is bold to imply that someone is not what they clam to be, but not to confuse this thread with the one about respect… Anyway I do not know much about Sifu Jon Funk but I have seen him in Kung Fu magazine a few times. In fact, there is an article in the Nov / Dec issue page 58. Now I don’t believe everything I read, especially after reading this forum for the last few months, but I will quote from the article.

“Wong Long’s founding principals has been an on going focus for eighth-generation Wong Hon Fun clan descendent Sifu Jon Funk during his 20-year teaching career.”

Further on it says,

“This contribution was made possible by the emigration of Cheng Luen Chuen (Sifu Al Cheng) to North America from Hong Kong in 1979, where he bridged the language barrier by teaching Lo Kwon Yu’s system to non-Chinese students such as Jon Funk.”

This may not mean anything and I am not taking sides, but this is not the first time I have seen people try to discredit others here. Not to say that if someone is pulling the wool over everyone’s eyes that it should not be pointed out.

RibHit
fm

iron_silk

10-26-2002, 02:06 PM

"Is this true & if so how did you become a Sifu if your teacher isn't one. Also do still keep in contact with Sifu Cheng as I've never seen any photos of you & him together in any of the articles that you have written"

Very unnessarily accusational and demanding if all you want to clear up was whether the rumour was true or not.

Further just because you didn't intend to insult does not mean you should not apologize for it. Just because you didn't hurt someone on purpose doesn't mean you didn't do wrong.

It just means that you accidentally did something wrong as appose to deliberately doing something wrong which means you are a jerk.

Now knowing you are only seeking information and clarification I do not think you are a jerk...but to show you are a good person to know when to admit they made a mistake and that is regardless of your intention. In doing you also deserve forgiveness for we all make mistake once in awhile.

Good Luck!

iron_silk

10-26-2002, 02:08 PM

Good point!

ursa major

10-26-2002, 02:28 PM

I like Sifu Funk's response. Thought I'd play it again...

"Perhaps you could give some idea of who you are and why I should pay attention to such a rude inquiry"

live and learn,
UM.

ninjaboy

10-26-2002, 03:32 PM

raynysc

it's not WHAT you say, it's HOW you say it. (this is a rather "high-end" diplomacy skill.)

but besides that, i'd be interested in knowing if your OWN sifu encourages this very 'liberal' style of pursuing the truth or if he even knows about your feverish attempts to justify what's, seemingly, already in your head.

and did you go to the mantis cave yet? have you found out which are the REAL 20 graduates out of the 31 posted under WHF? do you plan to research this deeply or to just take shallow inquisitive potshots at fairly public, recognizable figures?

and go here if you haven't already.

http://www.geocities.com/mantiscave/

i hope that's the right address, can someone correct me if it's not please? thx

ninjaboy

Fen

10-26-2002, 03:54 PM

Originally posted by iron_silk
Further just because you didn't intend to insult does not mean you should NOT apologize for it. Just because you didn't hurt someone on purpose doesn't mean you didn't do wrong.

It just means that you accidentally did something wrong as appose to deliberately doing something wrong which means you are a jerk.

Now knowing you are only seeking information and clarification I do not think you are a jerk...but to show you are a good person to know when to admit they made a mistake and that is regardless of your intention. In doing you also deserve forgiveness for we all make mistake once in awhile.

Good Luck!

I feel the same as iron_silk

~Jason

loki

10-26-2002, 07:20 PM

This thread has gotten a little too politically correct for me. Somebody asks a question, answer the question. Simple, didn't like the way the question was asked? Answer it anyway. What's to get so offensive for? There's always going to be people that want to test you. The way to set someone straight and to dispell the enquirer's doubts, misconception,or preconceived ideas is to be straightforward, open and honest. If you are indeed what you claim to be then you should be confident in your response , no matter how polite or rude the question.

I realize that there is a respect that is to be given Sifu's and all and so I can understand being a little upset. But the Sifu can't have an attitude of "the nerve of some people" or "how dare they talk to me that way" or better yet.."do you know who am, do yo know who I am?" C'mon, gimme a break.

As far as I've always known, Mr. Funk can be very evasive when asked for information because he automatically assumes he is being attacked. He seems to try to come off with a "you are beneath me" type of attitude. Which is exactly how the response to the e-mail sounds.

Ye Gor

10-26-2002, 07:25 PM

Anybody can put anybody's name on a webpage... so what?

On the other hand, RAYNYSC, Sifu Funk doesn't owe you didly squat. You barge in on him in a disrespectful way and you expect something? I think you're lucky he replied at all, and in fact left the door open (by asking that you introduce and explain yourself) rather than slamming it in your face.

northernJump

10-26-2002, 10:04 PM

OK, as a student of Jon Funk I just want to say a couple of things. I've been studying under him for just over a year so I'm no expert either in martial arts or in judging sifu's. I also have no idea as to his certification with WHF. What I will say is that he puts a lot of himself into his teaching and from what I can see he is both skilled and knowledgable. A number of his ex students are now studying in other places with other 7* sifu's/practioners and most of them still come back here to train with Jon from time to time. This seems to me to be a reflection of the quality of what he is teaching. He also has a lot of respect within the chinese martial arts community here in Vancouver. He is the major force behind the tiger balms MA competition held here every year - the biggest such tournament in western Canada.
so just by his actions I feel he is worthy of respect - of course I'm a bit biased as one of his students.

Just as an aside, if I were a university professor or a high level surgeon and someone out of the blue emailed me questioning my qualifications I would certainly be offended.

As far as I know Al Cheng is now retired but sifu is still in contact with him. I think he is still living here in Vancouver.

If any of you are in Vancouver you should drop by. Fellow practioners, 7* mantis or otherwise are always welcome.

firepalm

10-27-2002, 12:37 AM

If someone approached me in your manner I'd say p!ss off...

on the other hand if you were to have asked the same question in a little better manner I'd probably answer it straight out...

Loki, you're right screw the political correctness, and by that token why should Jon Funk or anyone in his position have to even bother taking the time to address such a question. But then that's just me, as Ye Gor pointed out Jon Funk hasn't slammed the door (he just responded in the manner he was addressed). Perhaps you'd all like it if he sent an immediate scan of his certified credentials, pictures with his sifu, complete resume, etc... to ever Tom, **** & wanker that thought they were entitled to ask for validation of his credentials.

Have to agree with Northern Jump on the University Professor / surgeon parrallel. You have concern with my credentials come to my office they're hanging on the wall.

BTW Raynysc hope my response to you wasn't too harsh!?!?!?!

:eek:

iron_silk

10-27-2002, 12:42 AM

Tao of wushu

Thanks!

loki's post

it's not about being politically correct at all.

It's not about what the intention was but a show of care and concern for others. To say "Somebody asks a question, answer the question." shows a real lack of care for others or a real self-serving attitude.

It shouldn't be an effort to keep common respect for others. It should come naturally. Then again I guess it really depend on what kind of person you want to be.

I know you are not trying to insult anyone nor taking offense at either Jon Funk's or anyone's message but...a lack of care for others is the problem. I am not saying you are should baby everyone you meet or just don't say what you feel or any other extreme some people may think of.

I think you may read too much into what Jon Funk have said and should try think from his perspective if possible. Especially since you want to keep it straight and simple.

You think people care too much about other people or perhaps too much effort is placed. Then I would say why you do you seem to care so little about others and why it should be such an effort to begin with?

Common courtesy is not something you do...it should be something natural.

I don't mean to insult you in anyway but to merely offer an alternative perspective. We all learn once in awhile and it's important we keep doing so no matter how old or how much knowledge we gain.

Saying all that I do see your point...just not in this case.

Good Luck man!

loki

10-27-2002, 08:35 AM

Iron_Silk, no, I am not offended and you are right in everything you say. But I am not as cold hearted as I may be coming across on this thread. I treat everyone I meet with the upmost respect, both student and Sifu alike. In fact, I met a former Jon Funk student in New Jersey a few weeks ago and he was a cool guy.

You guys are right, Mr. Funk doesn't have to answer anyone's questions. He has nothing to prove to anyone. But he could lead by example. He doesn't neccesarily have to brush off a prospective student just because he doesn't like the way he's being approached by stooping down to that person's level.

We have all heard stories of the disrespectful, brash and overly confident person who walks into a school and attempts to embarrass the teacher in some kind of way or challanges him. Then, what happens? The challenger gets his ass handed to him by the instructor with the result being that the person will leave and never come back or he will let go of his ego and become one of the most loyal students that Sifu has in his school. In this instance, Mr. Funk failed to set the example and perhaps lost a promising and loyal student.

Just my take on the whole darn thing.

RAYNYSC

10-27-2002, 07:53 PM

Let me first start be saying that I have nothing but Respect for any Sifu or student that I come across. I also agree with what loki said 100%. Now with that being said I would like to know why is it when I posted this question on this forum all I got was good question why don't you e-mail Jon Funk himself & ask him about it & let us know what he say's....

When I do all I get is that I should have more respect when asking such a question.... ( I'll be the first to say that I may have come off a little on the harsh side ) But the bottom line here is all I did was ask a question a legit one at that!....
You may feel differently & thats fine as you guy's are entiltled to your own opinions like every one else here....:D

What I find ironic is the fact that there really is no nice way to ask such a question reguardless of the way you put it & yet you do.... As it sounds like you're questioning the Sifu to see if he is legit or not.

(I would rather be upfront with Sifu Funk & be on page one from day one then BS him & have him think that everything is cool then come out of left field. With oh by the way I heard that your Sifu Al Cheng wasn't certifed by Wong Hung Fun so just for the sake of asking How did you become a Sifu again? I thought only a Sifu can make a Sifu. Now grant you I'm not sure if he had more the one Sifu or Instuctor in the Mantis system, which just may be the case.)

You may feel differently with what I'm saying & like I said before thats fine thats to be expected I'm not out to discredit Sifu Funk in any way shape or form.... Now if you guy's & Sifu Jon Funk feel that I am then thats on you as all I'm after is finding out what the truth is or would you rather just go in blindly & go on every word your Sifu tells you....

( Just for the record I would want to know as much about my Sifu as possible before I begain to train under him/her.) ;)

Peace :D

iron_silk

10-27-2002, 08:43 PM

You got to keep things simple.

It wasn't about the question it was about the way it was asked.
You have to keep you points simple because if you confuse it with multiple issues than it can go on and on. Of course I don't mean ignoring any issues, but merely not grabbing for just anything.

That being said...I think you are right in one respect. Since you posted the question here first we should have told you how it had sounded right off the bat.

We didn't really take consideration because we were fully aware of your intentions right off the bat. Unfortunately for a direct contact with someone you have no idea about and with a lack of clarity...it does sound offensive...slightly.

But I think he is being fair unless he started to insult and swear like crazy. Unlike how other's trying to make it sound justify by claiming Jon Funk is "how dare you...who do you think you are...blah blah blah..." that is simply not true.

I understand it is easier to claim that "I am right and he is wrong" but...well...in the end it's up to you.

Respect is not about him being a sifu or important, but that respect should be given to anyone and all involved. Since you are the one who approached him and started the miscommunication then it is your job to clear things up as well.

I do not think he's being too harsh with you, but merely taken by something that came out of no where.

It is not about questioning the sifu...it's about asking it appropriately. There is a nice way...but you may feel embarrassed or angry does not change what you did or whether is a better way. There is always a better way but you may not know it. That is why it was an accident. It might be kind of pompous to think your way is the only right way and no other way and what you did is correct or if even not correct it's still the best way.

How can you admit to being harsh and not feel the need to make right? that is your choice ultimately. If you feel right then...what can I say but hope that you think about it.

It's always easy when someone agrees with you.

But learning isn't instant...takes time...good luck man!

Loki

I know you seem pretty cool guys thanks for understanding!

I agree that a master should lead by example. That being said everyone should do their best to do so...no one is left without that responsibility.

In this case I think it's reaching a bit far to compare it to challenges and bad mouthing. This is a case of miscommunication and I don't think Jon Funk brush off anyone. He is setting an example...and hopefully people can learn a lesson from this incident. I guess it's not always easy to see...but perhaps in the long run? Since a lesson is presented...perhaps it's up to the student now to learn...and he'll still be there for when the student will learn.

Now if Ray apologizes and show that it is a mere communication and Funk still gives crap then it something else. BUT until that happens...

Good Luck!

cha kuen

10-28-2002, 01:35 AM

Just email FUNK and tell him,

"I'm sorry if you misunderstood the intent of my question. It's hard to see what communication is over this type of medium. (add a few lines of b/s on how you seen him in so many magazines and where your background is and then pop the question)"

That should work.

-Cha kuen
http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=taichimaster06&include=0&since=-1&sort=3&rows=25

Brad

10-28-2002, 07:01 AM

"Sifu Funk, I wanted to get some info on you & your Sifu Al Cheng I was told that your Sifu was never certified by Wong Hong Fun to teach. Is this true & if so how did you become a Sifu if your teacher isn't one. Also do still keep in contact with Sifu Cheng as I've never seen any photos of you & him together in any of the articles that you have written."

I think everything before "Also do still keep in contact with Sifu Cheng as ....." is ok. It's a pretty straightforward question about his background. That last part though sounds like you're basically looking for a reason to call him a fraud and is pretty rude to ask unless you have good reason to believe he never studdied with this Al Cheng guy in the first place.

ninjaboy

10-28-2002, 09:24 AM

raynysc

(and others interested)

as promised, here's the cover pic of 'inside kungfu' from january of 1986 with sifus funk and cheng for confirmation on the 'photos' question.

and ray...i still can't help but wonder why you've selected sifu jon funk SPECIFICALLY to badger regarding your lineage questions....

are you even a mantis practitioner?

did you go to the mantis cave and REALLY do your homework?

i heard once that "the quality of your life is directly proportionate to the quality of the questions you ask."

just a thought. hope you guys like the cover pic.

ninjaboy

iron_silk

10-28-2002, 03:46 PM

I agree with Brad.

But he said it without bringing up with other points. It's clear and simple...I like that!

cha kuen

A good course of action.

ninjaboy

don't be too harsh on ray...we all need some help now and then.
being a mantis practitioner shouldn't be important...but I guess it does seem a bit out of no where.

hey Ray!

um...next time...you could perhaps contact a martial arts magazine and have them find out the info you? Just a suggestion for the future and nothing really to do with this particular situation.

iron_silk

10-28-2002, 03:54 PM

Originally posted by Brad

I think everything before "Also do still keep in contact with Sifu Cheng as ....." is ok. It's a pretty straightforward question about his background. That last part though sounds like you're basically looking for a reason to call him a fraud and is pretty rude to ask unless you have good reason to believe he never studdied with this Al Cheng guy in the first place.

Actually to add one more point is that "Is this true & if so how did you become a Sifu if your teacher isn't one. " also sound bad.
1) because like brad said it sounds like you are pushing for a reason to call him a fraud.
2) I have a feeling you have a different intention than the way it sounds i.e. you wonder how one person becomes a master if their master was not certified

with that it sounds a little pushy
1) because you basically derive info from the first part already
2) sounds like you are already assumed he is not and "looking" for confirmation that he is not
making the second question sound unnecessary unless alternative motive in mind...logically speaking...

If you wish to actually ask the second question then you should probably make it clearer. Then again I am sure you thought you were originally.

Good Luck!

RAYNYSC

10-28-2002, 08:12 PM

Ninjaboy,
First I would like to say thanks for the photo as it proves that there's photos of Sifu Funk & Sifu Cheng together that I haven't seen in the articles that I've read thats all... Like I said before:

What I should of said is that I haven't seen any photos of him ( Jon Funk ) & Al Cheng together in any of the articles that I've read written by him...

In your opinion I chosen Sifu Jon Funk to specifically to badger him as you put it. In reguards to the lineage questions, I feel that there was nothing wrong with asking..... If you feel differently thats your opinion. What if I told you that I found your line of questioning to be offensive by asking me if I'm even a mantis practitioner! Re-read the question that I asked again & you'll see that the question was about Al Cheng & Wong Hung Fun & not Jon Funk!.... The only reason that Sifu Jun Funk was mentioned in the first place was because he studied under Sifu Al Cheng as he has & still is writting articles on the mantis system no more no less.....:D

Just for the record as far as the Mantis cave is concerned it's not the holy grail of the mantis system a great source of info but far from being the know all say all of the mantis system.... :D

Peace :D

Fen

10-28-2002, 08:46 PM

You're making yourself look bad here. You've asked a question, you got an answer, rude or not, you still got one....get on with it and stop acting like a child. It's up to you to either email him and ask him nicely and explain yourself and APOLOGIZE...if you choose to not do that, it's in your court to deal with the answer that you got, but not the one you wanted.

~Jason

RAYNYSC

10-29-2002, 11:50 AM

Hey tao,silk,ninjaboy,
I asked a question which you guy's couldn't answer. & now your out to make me look like the bad guy thats cool no problem. :D
By the way the question has already been resolved by Sifu Funk himself via e-mail & I must say it was very interesting to read what he had to say about Al Cheng & Wong Hung Fun....

Peace :D

flem

10-29-2002, 05:26 PM

i got about half way thru the third thread here---
i can't do it
i cannot read anymore of this crap

maybe i can refer you guys over to yegors thread about respect- blah, blah, blah

raynysc is not wrong- and even if he was, shouldn't a "master"be beyond the reaction of j. funk

i say the recipient of the email either master humility or get a set of balls period.

northernJump

10-29-2002, 07:07 PM

"By the way the question has already been resolved by Sifu Funk himself via e-mail & I must say it was very interesting to read what he had to say about Al Cheng & Wong Hung Fun...."

Awesome. I'm glad you got a good result.

iron_silk

10-29-2002, 08:50 PM

To be fair...I only offered another insight that you could not see beyond.

I always say it was your choice and noted the difference between actual wrong and a mistake!

Jon Funk has taken a step to fix things up and I do not believe he behaved poorly. But I do notice how you guys like to have a united front about how right Ray is right and how Jon needs to go beyond a master.

You take responsibility for you on actions.

Anyway...glad to hear you got things cleared up!

Later!

(by the way the amount of message is only generated by disagreement...no one is out to get Ray dispite what you guys think.)

argentino

10-31-2002, 11:02 AM

The information you are looking for in the Mantis Cave. Read the bios and you will understand.
It is easier to do a little bit of research before asking some rude questions.

Best regards

Fernando

RAYNYSC

11-01-2002, 09:58 PM

Thanks for the suggestion but perhaps it is you who should do some more indepth research yourself....:D
I have already spoken with Mr. Funk & he courtously provided me with answers that your Mantis Cave Couldn't....;)

Now as for being rude perhaps you should get out of your cave a little every now & then....:D
Just something to think about there as it is not the know all or say all of the mantis system....
A great source of info but far from being the last word on the mantis system. In this case it has been proven to be flawed or at least not as indepth as you would have one to believe.....

Looks to me like you have some more homework to there as well ninjaboy....:p
Just for the record sometimes it's better to go to the source when you can as in this case. Oh & by the way Fernando I believe that it was already pointed out that I had no intention to discredit anyone or be rude when I posted this question....:D

Peace:D

Ye Gor

11-02-2002, 12:28 AM

Hey, RAYNYSC, can you say 'gloating jerk'? :D

Once again you manage to be rude without intending to do so... :p

But I guess your response was 'legitimate'...;)

Peace:D

Tainan Mantis

11-02-2002, 01:30 AM

RAYNYSC,
Fernando has gone to the trouble of trying to document all the lineages of PM on the planet, a near impossible task.
He has travelled all over the world meeting PM masters of every style and breed, not to mention making many close MA brother friends.
His name is well known and respected in the PM community.

On the other hand, you...?

iron_silk

11-02-2002, 12:03 PM

it's not about intentions...on the hand the deliberate self-righteousness in the face of admitted wrong is very immature

on the other hand I am very glad to hear (yet again) sifu jon funk handling the matter with you.

Was he the first to approach or did you approach him again? just wondering...don't worry you seem occupied anyway.

iron_silk

11-02-2002, 12:16 PM

I just checked out the mantiscave and it was very impressive...

congrats to fernando!

To be fair to Ray...I don't think it did contain the specific information he was looking for. Since it was already mentioned in the post about his certification from sifu Huang Han Xun's son.

I didn't check the old posts but I think he was debating whether son had the authority for just being the son??? On that topic I think it's very clear that the son so happen to be the head because he was fitting for the position rather than being the head because he was the son.

So...yeah!

p.s. Fernando you might want consider re-organizing some of the info because it can get a bit messy with such a long lineage. Only an opinion...no biggie! :)

RAYNYSC

11-02-2002, 02:38 PM

Hey Tainan Mantis,
Just for the record Fernando has done a great job with the mantis cave, thats something that is without question... Like I said before it has a great source of infomation on the mantis, but its far from being the know all or say all of the mantis system....You may not agree with me but thats ok as everyone here is entitled to his or her opinion reguardless of how rude it may look or sound in the eyes of others.....;)

Peace :D

argentino

11-04-2002, 11:32 AM

Easy RAYNYSC

I do not think the "know all or say all of the mantis system" can ever be produced, therefore I think you are right on your comments about the cave. However I still think the information you were looking for is included there ;)

Anyway, were are you in NY ? I might be going to the USA in December. Please send me your contact information and maybe we can get together, train some tang lang quan and you could also contribute something to make the Cave more complete.

Take care

Fernando

cha kuen

11-04-2002, 12:06 PM

Al Cheng did learn from Wong Hon Fun but he was a little kid at the time.

kung fu books (http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=taichimaster06&include=0&since=-1&sort=3&rows=25)

eyelm

11-16-2002, 11:38 AM

Perhaps there are larger martial arts lessons here; beyond respect, courtesy, or political correctness.

1. Good form is important, and we need to develop our form if we have any hope for our technique's effectiveness.

2. Impulsive advances are easily deflected.

3. Don't over-commit with any technique. You will lose your root and leave yourself vulnerable.

4. Don't assume your first technique will be effective. Be prepared to respond to a parry.

5. A true martial artist has nothing to prove. He/she is skilled enough, strong enough, and confident enough to sense and avoid a confrontation.