Sniper caught?

[PHILBERT]

http://www.msnbc.com/news/816566.asp
http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/South/10/24/sniper.shootings/index.html

Apparently they've arrested 2 suspects, a 41 year old and his 17 year old step-son and found a rifle in the car that fired the .223 rounds.

[Skarbromantis]

Oh snap! I hope its really the killer!

[KC Elbows]

Not saying this in an "I told you so" sort of way, but there were a few of us on another thread criticizing some so-called profilers for always saying the easy guesses like "white male 18-35", and we, by sheer dumb luck, ended up being right for that.

There is also some evidence that the individuals sympathized with the sept 11 attackers.

The older "man" used to run a karate school with one other guy, but he bailed on the other guy, so it's all martial arts related.

They're saying he was a control freak.

Hopefully, that's it, and people can return to life.

Apparently, they were caught because, on one of the calls, the guy said "if you don't think I'm serious, talk to the people in Montgomery", or something like that. At first, they were checking in Montgomery, Maryland, but then they checked in Alabama, and discovered a case of two woemn being shot. At the scene of the crime was found something with the stepson's prints on it.

What a mess.:(

[Ford Prefect]

I don't like the "duck in a noose" bs. That doesn't sit well with me.

[Bolt]

"duck in the noose" ...why ? You think it may be some kind of "trigger" phrase ?

[@PLUGO]

Appariently Bush (http://www.whitehouse.org/news/2002/101602.asp) & company are still waffling on "ballistic (http://www.washtimes.com/national/20021016-82059330.htm) Fingerprinting" (http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/2002/10/19_NRABush.html)

I wonder if it would be of any use here....

I've also heard Ashcroft doen't want to violate the privacy rights of the dead 9/11 highjackers by letting the FBI investigate any gun purchase background checks... But that's somewhat off topic and unvarified (http://www.democraticunderground.com/forum_archive_html/DCForumID32/400.html)
:p :cool::D

[Ford Prefect]

I dunno. It could be a trigger phrase for another cell. The only other time I heard that phrase was after I did something stupid and tried to fool my mother, but she went along with it and ended up busting me. She told me a story about a fox who tried catching a duck in a noose/trap. He got the duck, but then the duck flew off carrying the fox with it, and the fox dropped to its death when it couldn't hold on any longer. Basically it was saying, "You think you got me, but I got you, sucka!"

The only reason why I remembered that from such a young age is because it involved animals and death. Yeah! ;)

[Former castleva]

Just saw the news on finnish tv a couple of minutes ago,as a foreigner compared to many people in here you probably have learned of it already but there were two killers and when I found out about what they were like it really blew me...
a black guy,professional soldier having fought in a war and has turned to Islam+17 years old stepson of his (I hope I got the spelling right around those lines)
What was really shocking to me was what that they were reading religion between the lines like so many others recently,same religion...uh,this is gonna cause some more anger I think.

[Ford Prefect]

Design sifu,

Ballistic fingerprinting is about as bs as you can get. The "fingerprint" of the firearm changes over time as it's fired more and more. Basically it would only work on brand new or rarely used weapons. Also, since most crimes are committed by people who aquired the gun illegally, the ballistic fingerprint wouldn't lead you anywhere in most cases. Let's not forget that it will take a huge upgrade in technology to offer this for all firearms made/sold in the US and a lot of manpower to build and maintain this database. All it comes down to is a huge waste of money.

[@PLUGO]

Sure... Okay...

we all know the Gov Never wastes money eh? :D :p :cool: :p :D

[LEGEND]

Yesterday at 8:00pm! I had gotten the photos of the suspects! From the RICE CAVE I took my RICE MOBILE and search the entire DC area...NOTHING!!! Then one of my other contacts...Ms. ME SO *****...contacted me in Frederick, MD. She said..."Vietcong Man...I found them!!! They're at the rest stop!!!" I then transformed my RICE MOBILE into RICE BURROW and duggggggggggggggggg to the scene! I soon discovered the culprits...quickly beating them up with HO CHI MINH MARTIAL ARTs...and KO both father and son!!! After that I put them in the car...and called the police using a fake voice...I then place a letter saying if they ever need me...to use the PHO SIGNAL!!! DC has a new hero gentlemen...u know I'm near when u hear digging!!! ARRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

[Stacey]

any Muslums, no matter how tame, should be shot on site before they start killing us.

er. sorry, grew up with the cold war and just replaced "Russian" with "Muslum"

[LEGEND]

Stacey...but arabs got some hotties!!!

[Stranger]

Design Sifu,

It is not just expensive, it does not work. Right now ballistic fingerprinting is a convenient election time gambit to sway the vote of frightened citizens who have no familiarity with firearms. It sounds like it makes sense in a 30 second campaign commercial, but any deeper discussion would have to reveal the serious flaws of the practice (enough for reasonable doubt). What good is it, if it can't make a significant impact on the criminal conviction rate?

[rogue]

Legend, did you use your patented "Love you long time" move on them. Is that why they were out cold?:D

I was reading that Mohammed, the one that used a sniper rifle and not an airliner to kill folks, had cut a hole in the trunk of the Chevy Caprice. If that's where he was shooting from no wonder nobody saw it happen.

BTW Legend. Let's check your profiling teachers score card and give her a grade. ;)

[LEGEND]

Rogue...**** dat WOMAN...she gets an "F"!

What I told the SNIPER when I had him..."Toss my salad...with NOUC MUMMMMMMMMMMM!!!"

Sniper "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!"

and he passed out!

[rogue]

"The Caprice has an opening in its trunk that would permit someone to lie inside and fire the rifle while remaining hidden, two federal law enforcement sources told The Associated Press. That could explain the lack of spent shell casings in most of the shootings, the officials said, speaking on condition of anonymity."

Blue Caprice, white van or truck, very easy to confuse them.


"Investigators now believe that the Caprice was involved in all the shootings. Sightings of white vans and box trucks were attributed to erroneous witness accounts.

Police would not confirm a report in The (Baltimore) Sun's Thursday editions that the Caprice was approached Oct. 8 by Baltimore officers who found Muhammad and Malvo sleeping. That was the day after a 13-year-old boy in Bowie was wounded as he arrived at school.

The two were allowed to go, sources told The Sun, because investigators were looking for a white van. In the weeks after, four more people were shot by the sniper, three fatally."

Thank you profilers and media shmucks. :mad:

From http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A12568-2002Oct24.html

[Rolling Elbow]

Stacey, what a moronic comment coming from someone who is usually much brighter'! Shooting every muslim before they "harm you" is as ridiculous as suggesting that the people of the world denounce every future U.S foreign policy that ignores middle eastern rights to their own natural resources. .... won't happen and shouldn't even be considered because after all, american foreign policy is "good" and we "need" a global policeman. Islam is "bad" so lets at least let the "innocent" muslims meet their fate at the hands of "our" one supreme western Christian/Catholic (possibly Arian and not possibly jewish) god! ;)

[WinterPalm]

Pretty convient the guy was a muslim and black. Maybe he spent some time in Burma at one point and that will give america a good enough reason to bomb some more civilians.:mad:

[ewallace]

:rolleyes:

[African Tiger]

I mean, this guy wasn't a sniper after all.

Do you really think that becasue he fired "Expert" in the Army makes him able to move under the noses of law enforcement, fire headshots and center mass hits, all with "one shot kills" and escape within seconds?

Of all the people capable of doing something like that, an ARMY mechanic is least likely. I mean, me as a Marine Corps pencil pusher - I've hit a headshot at 550 yards with that same weapon, but I coudn't possibly pull off a quick escape. Not to mention, Army snipers just aren't that good :D

While there's a ton of evidence mounting, I smell a patsy party all the way.

[African Tiger]

I second that emoticon, ewallace. :rolleyes:

THIS comment from a country that lured American film production away with their self-defeating tax incentives. :rolleyes:

[Stranger]

AT,

First off, this guy was a lot closer than 550 yds (more like 100-150yds. by the local TV I've been watching).

Second, he had a big ol'scope (making that 100-150yds a lot more up close and personal- like 10ft.).

Third, no sniper aims for center mass, those were all off-shots intended for the head.

Fourth, there is no evidence that he even had to "escape within seconds". His car didn't match the profile and he didn't match the profile (both facts he knew). He shot from WITHIN the car and was never in danger of being spotted. He could have killed time sipping on a latte for all we know until the heat cooled off in a couple of hours.

Living in DC, there are countless self-proclaimed "poor shots" from both he army and marines who have phoned into radio stations to argue against claims that this shooter had any talent and citing their own ability to duplicate the sniper's shots as evidence. The concensus among them is that the shooting demo has not been spectacular.

Let's not forget that once the sniper opened his stupid mouth and started corresponding with the police, it became immediately apparent that the criminal was of below average intelligence and not a high-speed operator.

[dburell]

Originally posted by Stranger
Design Sifu,

It is not just expensive, it does not work. Right now ballistic fingerprinting is a convenient election time gambit to sway the vote of frightened citizens who have no familiarity with firearms. It sounds like it makes sense in a 30 second campaign commercial, but any deeper discussion would have to reveal the serious flaws of the practice (enough for reasonable doubt). What good is it, if it can't make a significant impact on the criminal conviction rate?

Hmmm what is that saying.... Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

Just think, after they find a way to ban all of the guns some nut case will use a sword or spear to kill someone then they will try to ban all of the martial arts weapons regardless of whether most of them are only used in exhibition.

Dean

[Liokault]

Thing is you are not going to use a sword or spear to kill people from 150-500 meters away are you?

And how long are you going to last if you try to use a sword or spear? Well your not going to last weeks, your not going to hold up a whole area of America and your not going to get away with out leaveing evidance.


Yes ban guns.

[dburell]

Originally posted by Liokault
Thing is you are not going to use a sword or spear to kill people from 150-500 meters away are you?

And how long are you going to last if you try to use a sword or spear? Well your not going to last weeks, your not going to hold up a whole area of America and your not going to get away with out leaveing evidance.


Yes ban guns.

The last victims of the sniper were shot from about 30 meters. How far can one shoot an arrow? Distance really is irrelevant. If someone really wants to kill they can make a bomb out of common household items purchased at a grocery or hardware store put a timer on it and have it delivered. So you see the weapon has nothing to do with it. Case in point, 9/11 the weapon used was a box cutter then an airplane. The greatest weapon will always be the mind. The gun is merely a tool, take away the gun and the person that wants to kill will find another tool.

I find it interesting that many of the weapons that people are trying to ban have been around for 50 + years. So the real question is why are people more willing to kill?

Dean

[dezhen2001]

oh dear :( hopefully its an end to all the worry and troubles, if they ARE the culprits :mad:

dawood

[Royal Dragon]

"And how long are you going to last if you try to use a sword or spear? Well your not going to last weeks, your not going to hold up a whole area of America and your not going to get away with out leaveing evidance.


Yes ban guns."

Reply]
Q - What is banning guns going to do??

A - Disarm law abiding civillians so only the criminals who have guns anyway can have an easier time assaulting us with wide scale crime. Fear of DEATH prevents more crimes than you know. My girl freind has fended off home invaders (As in ARMED home invaders) with her shot gun on a number of occasions. One time the invader had already pulled his pants down and was about to crawl in bed with her. She rolle dover grabbed her shot gun from under the covers next to her and aimed it. He ran like hell. In several instances, she never even fired it. The times she did, it was only a warning shot, yet it was still effective in saving her from being another victem.

Remeber, criminals DO NOT follow the law. If you ban Guns, they WILL have them anyway. Case in point, I believe that during the Reagan assasination attempt, the laws in that area forbade guns. In effect they were banned to the point that the weapon should not have been avaliable, yet it was.

Also, I can make a Gun with pretty good range with a firecracker, a length of 1/4 inch pipe, and Fish gravel. The firecracker can be triggered with a small model rocket igniter electronically, avaliable in any hobby shop. I know, I have done it. An actual BAN is not possible. All it will do is empower the criminals, and you WILL see the death toll rise to be much higher than it is now becasue we can't defend ourselves anymore.

As it is now, an occasional accident occures, and a murder too, but the total death toll is no where near what it would be if we were not allowed to have them at all.

Guns prevent anarchy, and gives us a fighting chance against attackers, WITHOUT needing years of martial arts training. In situations where your attacked by an armed killer, martial arts will be useless anyway, only your ability to out shoot the attacker will be the difference between life and death. I don't know about you, but I WANT that fighting chance. I WILL not be a sheep headed for slaughter.

If you don't like guns, don't buy one. But don't forget that such a LARGE pecentage of the population has them, that the odds of a criminal getting killed during the act alone protects the people, including you. It may not discourage the few true psyoh paths, but if your armed, you can still just shoot them.

You OWE you security to wide scale gun ownerhip whether you have one or not, whether you believe it or not..

[dburell]

I do not claim to be an expert by any means, but weren't the martial arts created in response to aggression and a lackof weaponry?

I do believe that many of the weapons we see in the martial arts were developed because the oppressors would not allow weapons. I believe the tonfa was developed from a mill handle, the sai from a pitchfork, the nunchaku from a tool used to thrash wheat, etc. From what I understand these items were weaponized in response to the japanese occupation of Okinawa, which was so oppressive that they were only allowed to have one knife for the entire village.

While my timeframes may not be completely accurate, history has shown that people will always find a way to create weaponry to defend themselves, and there will always be people that use these weapons to oppress others.

Banning the weapon is never the answer, it is the person wielding the weapon that ultimately decides what to do with it.

Dean