Another question for bjjers

[Yung Apprentice]

This question is for bjjers who used to train but no longer do, or have never trained in CMA. How do bjjers in general, who cross train, view CMA? And I'm not talking about the "I'm pro-bjj" guys or the ones who base their opinion on UFC matches. I'm talking about the open minded people.

[Merryprankster]

A common theme for all BJJers: If what you use works, we've got no problem with it, whether you call it 7* praying mantis or Bart Simpson Do or whatever. When we start smelling bull**** we'll call you on it.

[SevenStar]

exactly. if you can beat someone down, they respect you as a ma, and the art you use to do it.

[sweaty_dog]

I think CMA are a pretty mixed bag. I think the styles that have mainly simple gross motor movements, good conditioning, and spar among themselves, are good for self defense. If you can pull off simple powerful attacks without getting hurt or clinched that is a useful skill.
I get very skeptical when I see really complex or fancy stuff that is never practised live. I doubt someone that doesn't practise against a real attacker will be able to pull off fine motor movements with some thug hammering them in the head. People forget that you are not all warmed up and just finished meditating every time someone wants to beat you up, maybe you are drunk and you've just been smacked in the head from behind. Overcoming the psychological factor of someone trying to hurt you is the most important part of fighting in my opinion.

Anyway, I don't see anything wrong with Kung Fu per say, just with some of its practitioners and the way it is sometimes taught. I do disagree with people that say Kung Fu is great because it was designed for the battlefield, first of all it is often untrue and secondly that was a long time ago. I also think there is a lot of emphasis on lineage which is not really necessary.

[TaoBoy]

I train both BJJ and CMA. There's no animosity between the styles form what I see. The BJJers just don't go for the more esoteric BS that some CMAs practice and the CMAs don't go for the egotistical idiot minority of BJJers that think they are invincible.

Generally, I see a mutual respect for applicable, effective fighting arts.

[SevenStar]

In my town, it's the CMAs that are egotistical, they feel that because they kick, do chi gung, etc. that bjj is a lesser style.

[Repulsive Monkey]

Thats because it is!

[SevenStar]

:rolleyes:

[DragonzRage]

I used to train CMA a loooong time ago. As for how bjj'ers/crosstrained grapplers feel about CMA, from what I've seen its a pretty mixed bag. Generally speaking, i think most guys could care less about CMA one way or another. They know nothing about it, and do not talk about it. That's because MMA is becoming more and more its own thing and becoming increasingly disassociated with the rest of the MA community. That means MMA guys don't think much about Goju Ryu Karate, Xingyi Liuhe Quan, wushu, or whatever. If its not a competitive fighting art that has application to MMA (such as judo, wrestling, boxing, Muay Thai or San Shou), then they could care less about it.

Then of course there are a few people here and there who seem to think that anything that isn't used in MMA is useless. These people are pretty open about their disdain for the "traditional" methods. Its funny that the most vocal people in this crowd have no first hand experience whatsoever with the arts they diss. Of course there are some who used to do karate, kf, TKD, etc and lost faith in the stuff once the MMA methods came on the scene.

But I think you'll find that the truly good players out there are a lot more open minded than you might think. Its just the morons who spend all day on the internet instead of training who talk a lot of juvenile $hit.

[Yung Apprentice]

Good reply!:)

"Its just the morons who spend all day on the internet instead of training who talk a lot of juvenile $hit."

[MA fanatic]

I have trained in TMA for years. I have a black belt in WTF TKD, and Hapkido (7 years in the art). I also trained in Kung Fu (for 4 years) and Kyoshu Jitsu. For the last 6 years I have been training in Muay Thai, and bjj. When I meet guys who come from other schools of grappling (wrestling, sambo, judo, pankration, shooto), I like to train with them. Though my training now resembles MMA style training (cross training between standup Muay Thai style, and grappling - gi and no gi), I still take seminars and classes from any big name martial arts expert who comes around. When George Dillman was in town, I took a seminar from him. When Vladimir Vasiliev (trainer for Russian Special Forces) was in town, I took seminars from him and bought all his tapes. When some of Dan Inosanto's guys did some seminars, I took classes from them. I don't care what art a person is from, as long as they could teach me to become a better fighter. Most of my training partners, are open minded. Even though they compete in MMA, I have never heard them bad mouth any particular art. I have seen them make fun of some particular local instructors, but those guys are a joke by any standard. One of the guys I train with is a purple belt in Gracie JJ, yet he also takes Yoga, and studies Tai Chi in a near by Tai Chi Chuan school. A blue belt friend of mine competes in bjj, but recently signed up to train in Shidokan karate. I also know a bjj guy who regularly travels to Brazil and loves the art, yet he also takes classes from a local Aikido teacher on Saturdays. I think on the most part BJJ guys (the good ones), are open minded. If you're going to talk to some teenagers who watched one too many UFC competitions, they'll try to convince you that bjj is the best and unbeatable. Any good bjj guy knows where the art has shortcomings.
MA fanatic
PS Keep in mind that bjj qualifies for being called a TMA. Actually, it's history is as old and rich as many TMAs (such as TKD, Kenpo, Aikido, Hapkido, etc. etc.).

[MA fanatic]

I just read a post above mine which said that in the poster's location, it is the CMA guys who are egotistical. Actually, I found that to be more true. I think most BJJ guys actually see their art as a traditional martial art which has been time tested and proven to be effective against all other arts. I have never heard a single bjj guy bad mouth any other style. They either never heard of some other styles, or open minded to it. However, no bjj guy will believe in one step sparring, follow an instructor who refuses to spar full contact with students, and/or believe in stories of various techniques working a 100 years ago. BJJ guys test their technique right away. They fight like they train, and they train like they fight. There is also no way of faking your way through a bjj class without getting hurt. You train full force, using contested techniques. As for it's history, BJJ's history is as rich and as deep (if not richer or deeper) than many TMAs. There is nothing in BJJ which would not make it a TMA as well. Anyone who doubts the effectiveness of BJJ, is always welcome on the mat.
MA fanatic

[Lowlynobody]

Just as a side note - I'm interested as to what Kung Fu system you trained in for 4 years?

Oh and I agree with Merry. What he said seems to be a common theam with those who know what they are on about.

[MA fanatic]

My Kung Fu school was owned by two instructors. One was teaching Wing Tsun, the other Hung Gar. There was one guy coming in to teach Tai Chi Chaun 3 days a week, but I never took those classes. The Wing Tsun guy also incorporated a lot of Chi Na. I didn't leave the school by choice. School relocated too far for me to commute.

[OneStrike]

There are some good people training in CMAs and some good CMA schools, from what I've seen, but the vast majority of them are crud. That's not a reflection on the good guys, but in statistical terms there are a lot of crappy schools out there claiming to teach CMAs.

My personal belief is that there are a lot of traditional CMAs that involve techniques which may not be effective against trained fighters. However, I think there's a difference between the focus of training of CMAs and full-contact combat sports that accounts for the apparently "ineffective" techniques - it seems to me that CMAs traditionally being primarily concerned with self-defense rather than competition will incorporate techniques for use against your average, untrained street thug. To me, that makes perfect sense from a self-defense standpoint.

[Yung Apprentice]

Good post!:cool:

[SevenStar]

I don't really think the focus matters. it's the way it's trained. If you train BJJ and muay thai for self defense, you will do self defense scenarios with hard contact and a resisting opponent. That is the only way. Any technique can work when you are drilling it with someone who lets you do it. doing drills in bjj is easy until the the person resists, then it's a different ballgame. The same applies to striking.