Who would you say made wing chun?

[Souljah]

As the title suggests, was it wing chun the woman or the shaolin nun who taught her? (the chicken or the egg....lol):D

[Mckind13]

My bet

Wong Wah Bo or Leung Yi Tai

Maybe I invented it in my dream last night (Hendrik...JK)

David

[reneritchie]

My money's on Yim Sin-Sang and Yim Tai-Tai!!

RR

[Mr. Bao]

This question of who created wing chun will never to be certain and so called established experts who claimed to know the absolute answer concerning the origins of wing chun is much like the dogmatic scholars of the holy text, eg the bible. These experts believe this and that. However, honestly if it was that clear as life and death/ day and night then I would assume that we wouldn't have much room for doubt.

To be honest, I do not know who created wing chun and I was not personally there. But from what Yip Man told his students basically, wing chun was created during the Ching dynasty, a shaolin nun named Ng Moy created it a new method of fighting which was radically different than conventional shaolin and Yim Wing chun was her only disciple and her husband learned it from her and named the fighting method after her.

Like the Bible, I believe people can benefit from the moral and spiritual meaning from the biblical stories. But to actually go beyond this is a matter of faith and dogma in my opinion. There is no point in arguing about faith. By definition, faith is a belief beyond reason and who can argue with that?

The story of wing chun is an unique story with heroes who are not your typical warriors found in lore and myths. We have instead strong women who's image and symbol has changed the lives of Yip Man, Bruce Lee, and its many students.

In the end of the day, there is definitely a moral and spiritual meaning in the story of wing chun. And whether you believe it or not it is there for all of us who claim to study wing chun. On a subconscious level, I am sure the story of wing chun will lives on in this form or perhaps in another one in the distant future.

[wingchunalex]

ng mui developed the raw techniques and yim wing chun organized them.

[Wingman]

Originally posted by wingchunalex
ng mui developed the raw techniques and yim wing chun organized them.

According to this article, it was neither Yim Wing Chun nor Ng Mui.
The truth revealed (http://home.vtmuseum.org/articles/meng/truthrevealed.php)

[Hendrik]

we all invent our WCK.
it is like the Hsu chi in your mind and mine are different. LOL

[Mckind13]

Hsu chi same in both our mind Hendrick...Same on monitor too (LOL-Hubba Hubba)

Rene,

Who are Yim Sin-Sang and Yim Tai-Tai?

I would like to know

David

[jon]

Can i have a crack at this, even if im not a WC guy?

This is compleatly theory and has absolutely *no* basis in fact what so ever. Its more a personal observation.

Many of the concepts in Wing Chun can be found within other systems. Some more so than others, Hung Ga, Southern Shaolin Short boxing. Crane boxing, hakka styles.
I would honestly not be surprised if Wing Chun was simply a natural development.
Lets just pretend for a second....

Say one master is an expert in Shaolin Short boxing and knife work.
He teaches the majority of his art to a particular student, however due to circumstance said student has to move.
Said student with lets say 70% of his masters kung fu seeks out a new teacher to continue training.
Finds a master of Tiger and Crane boxing or maybe Hung Ga.
After much study he finds certain concepts work well for him and fit with what he has already studyied but other concepts seem to be a little to difficault to make work.
So he mixes and matches a little and one day go's on to teach.
His system now is a mix of Shaolin Short boxing and Crane.
He teaches this system in full to another skilled artist in the Hakka styles.
This student also assimilates his knowledge into his previous knowledge and addapts the stances and structures to fit his own power generation and mindset.

Keep passing this down and down and you have a *lot* of variation.
In my humble opinion many styles are actualy made up like this.

I dunno really im randomly talking off the top of my head, still it honestly would not surprise me.
Or of course the system is the creation of a Shaolin nun who created the art to teach a young girl quickly and effectively. This would serve to prevent the young girl from marrying an evil kung fu master. What ever floats your boat really.

[Souljah]

Of course thats perfectly feasable jon.

I just want opinions and as Mr Bao said earlier, there is no actual foolproof way of pinpointing the creator of wing chun though we may have some very strong leads...

[reneritchie]

David,

Translation: Mr. & Mrs. Yim. They created (Yim) Wing Chun!

RR

[yuanfen]

At least Mrs Yim did. The matrilineal line is easier to trace.
(Yawn)
Tracing "creation" can be silly.
Apples and oranges.
Western and Asian historical traditions vary. the former more linear tries to organize the story by chronlogy-then debate forever on Jefferson and Sally Hemmings- did they really do it?
In several Asian traditions metaphors are tools of teaching and
transmission.
But then, folks sometimes restir tea leaves to learn the future as well.
Who really was Lao Tsu?

[yuanfen]

So? All dogs are descended from wolves-doesnt tell you much
about the major features and behavior of poodles, chows,
malamutes, beagles, pointers, rottweilers, greyhounds, samoyeds,mastiffs, retrievers, german shepherds, cattle dogs,
terriers.

The devil is in the details. Wing chun is different from hung gar, califo, southern mantis......

[Former castleva]

From all out non-wing chun ppl view,I´d go for wing chun herself (lady in the lead)
Whoever taught her,don´t know,but she was a nun and it was her who created the art.
Both teacher and student are essential as in chick and egg but the point goes trough simplified,huh.
:)

[jon]

Hi Joy
Seeing as you are quoting me directly ill try to restate.

"So? All dogs are descended from wolves-doesnt tell you much
about the major features and behavior of poodles, chows,
malamutes, beagles, pointers, rottweilers, greyhounds, samoyeds,mastiffs, retrievers, german shepherds, cattle dogs,
terriers."
* hmmm maybe but they will certainly *all* bear marked similaritys when compared to a cat.
My point was that many of these arts seem to have many things in commen and its more than possible they all share co development over different periods of time.
I certainly never meant to imply that WC was the *same* as Hung or SPM. However i would be a bit shortsigted to see no coralation between them.

My post was more about how *I* believe its *plausible* that the art may have become what it is today. It was not meant to try and draw comparisons or state that WC comes from other systems.


WC maybe different to Hung but trust me when i say its almost opposite to much of Baguazhang. Similaritys are just that, there not meant to be reprentations.


Ive always personaly held the belief that what mainly infuences styles are the other practioners of other arts within close proximity.
You can notice that most of the southern hands that matured in Gwandong region for example hold many similaritys.
Same could be said for arts of an internal nature, they all shared codevelopment, hence many concepts are shared.


Anyway im certainly no expert on WC history and im in no way pretending to be one (pleanty of others to do that for me). Im just trying to bounce an idea around to see how it pans out.


If its any concelation i dont believe my Tai Chi was invented by a Taoist watching a snake and bird battle either. Combat hands are invariably a progessive development. Good hands are usualy the work of many good masters over a long period of time.
This is one of many reasons i put less emphasis on the storys of anicient masters who coined whole combat styles based on one experience.

I would HIGHLY doubt for eg that the crux of Wing Chun was inititated purely for the benift of young Yim Wing Chun.

[MonkeyBoy]

Half the credit goes to Wing Chun herself and the other half to whoever she was defending herself against.

If you have ever seen a drunk and trying to paw a womans chest, you now know the true essence of Chi Sao.



"If you're ****ing someone off, then you are doing at least one thing right."

Abbie Hoffman

[UltimateFighter]

The story of 'Yim Wing Chun' is almost certainly a fairy tale. Most credible theories centre around wing chun standing for the 'forever springtime hall' or wing chun hall where the style was supposedly developed.

Obviously wing chun in its modern form is different anyway. The pole form was also not originally part of the system.