Another weird situation........and an honest question

[Ryu]

Hey again. I'm going to post this on Rich Dimitri's site too.
Please read and give me some honest opinions.. I'll give it to you as it happened, and what was going through my head.


Tonight I was working with a guy I know with some film-work, etc.
I had some college work to do, and after we took back the lights and equipment we drove home. He was in the driver's seat, and I was in the passenger's seat.

We got back to his place, and I had parked my car close by. It was dark, and around 8 pm. Well as I thanked him I suddenly saw a man running towards our car. I noticed him, but returned to talking with my "friend".
(If this had turned out to be a bad situation, this might have proven to be my mistake. I should have been a bit more aware..)

Suddenly there was a knock on my side of the car window. The man who had been running towards us was knocking and looking into our car. The guy I was with turned the car back on (we were parked) and rolled down the window.

The man outside was out of breath, very nervous, and smelled of alcohol. My hair stood on end a bit, and I positioned myself in a position where it would be easier to strike (though if he pulled a gun and I struck him .....)

Anyway the guy was frantic and said.
"Hey, can you guys do me a favor?? I wrecked my car over there, and I need you guys to drive me to my apartment to get some more money...they're gonna tow it, and no one else will help. I can't call the cops, I've been drinking..."

Well before I could say anything, my "friend" said
"uh...o.. Okay."

The man goes around back to get in the back seat. (Now I'm thinking that if this is a carjacking in disguise and he gets into the back seat with both of US in the front....we're screwed. I'm screwed because there's really no way to do anything if he's behind you like that.)
So before he can move, I use the excuse of my studies to leave the car....

I get out and look at him, and he looks at me, and I say
"I'm sorry, I've got a lot of tests tomorrow."

My friend nodded and said "Yeah he's got a lot of studying to do."

The man says "Okay, that's all right..."

Well I'm safely out, and the man gets in my seat. The passenger's seat in front. (But my hair is still standing up a bit because of his nervous nature, the smell of alcohol on him, etc.)

They start the car.

I go to my parked car, and get in. I turn on the engine. They drive past me, and I let them get a little ahead of me..... then I start to follow them. :(
I know I'm not a cop, and I have a dangerous habit of getting too close to these kinds of situations, but I did so anyway. I didn't want to just go home.

So I followed their car for about 10-15 minutes through the city. I stayed back a bit, but always kept them in sight, and finally I passed them to see what was going on inside.

The man was almost asleep in the front seat.. and my friend seemed to be fine... (he didn't see me.)

I finally decided that things looked okay, and they were in a well lit and busy part of town........ so I went home.

I called him when I got back, and it turns out the guy was probably a drug addict.... not sure if he even wrecked his car or not.... my friend said he probably wanted more money in his house to buy from his dealer.

Well everything was fine, and nothing bad happened....... but it left me with a question......

:( Should I have done what I did? Should I have stayed in the car with my "friend"?? If so..... what can someone possibly do in that situation if it turns into a real carjacking? A robbery? (It's just as easy for drug addicts to rob people for money instead of getting their own....)
I left because I thought I'd have a better chance of doing something if I wasn't in that bad position. Following them might have been dangerous too if it had turned out to be a criminal situation.....

Another question is..... what if you pass someone by who DOES need your help because you are cautious of their true motives?

The lines become so blurred sometimes.

Please give me some honest opinions here. I know I usually answer these myself anyway, but I'd like your input too.

(If the situation did turn bad, and I realized it as I followed them, I could use a cell phone to call the cops, go to the nearest police station with their liscence plate number, etc.......
though knowing me...... I hope I wouldn't try anything stupid.)

Ryu

[TaoBoy]

I usually err well on the side of caution. In fact, I wouldn't have let the guy get into the car in the first place. If he was legit, that's just his bad luck. I'd do what I could to help him without endangering myself or my friends/family.

I may sound like a bit of an ******* but if I'm gonna stay safe by causing someone else a little bit of trouble - so be it. In that situation, he could always call a friend or call a cab or walk...

[Ryu]

I wouldn't have let the guy get into the car in the first place.


I just wanted to re-emphasize that I agree completely with that, and wouldn't have let him in either had I been the driver.
My friend simply said "okay." before I could say a word.....

So be that as it was, what do you think? What would you guys have done?

Ryu

[Stacey]

you did the right thing.

One of the luxories of knowing martial arts is that we can be kind and don't need to act out of fear. The man needed help and you were kind.

I have been in the park eating, surrounded by beggers and drunk hustlers and I've been safe. Safe enough to be kind, but not a sucker out of fear. If any of these guys were to try anything, I could have folded them. A diet of only alcohol also tends to weaken a person and dull their senses.

One man asked for money for food. I told him I was on my way to a chinese restaurant with good cheap food and I would be glad to invite him. He got mad and said, "I can't eat that slop. I want something very specific. I want money for a hamburger." Now I'm almost laughing. I wanted to say, "Beggers can't be choosers." He by now had his hand on my shoulder, but knowing that I could kill him, lightened my mood as I walked past him.

You did the right thing. I wouldn't have been too much to say no and call him a cab. Or even to get in the back, if he had no bad motives, he would have understood. Also think from his perspective. Would you rob two men? He was probably scared as well. Your not a cop, but that doesn't mean you can't help.

[FatherDog]

I sat and thought about it a bit, and even sitting here in front of my computer, non-stressed, with plenty of time to think, I have a hard time thinking of a better way to handle the situation as presented.

Considering you made the decision on the spot, with a weird guy smelling of alcohol breathing down your neck, I think you done good, pilgrim.

[SevenStar]

I think you did right. by being in a separate car, you were in a better position to help, and to call the police if the sutation had become hostile. Being removed from the situation (by not being in the same car) leaves you in a position where you are more calm and can think a little more clearly.

As for helping people, you can sometimes tell when a person is genuine or not. If you can't tell, you can help to a point where you are not in danger, or inconveniencing yourself. For example, someone approches me asking for money for food. If I decide to do it, I will go into the nearest well lit and populated area (most of the occasions this has happened to me has been either at a fast food place, or a gas station, so I will go inside) I do this just in case the person has intent on robbing me - If I open my wallet right in front of him, he can see my money and credit cards and possibly decide to try and take them. I may give him a dollar or two - just enough for him to grab a sandwich and a drink. If he actually eats with it, cool - he was hungry and I helped. If he uses it for alcohol or anything else, then I only lost two bucks - life goes on. Typically I don't give anyone a ride anywhere, however there have been a few occasions where a woman's car stopped on the side of the road and I took her where she was trying to go.

[Frank Exchange]

Hate to sound callous, but, the guy admits hes been drinking, wrecked his car, and then wants you to help him avoid getting his car towed?

Sorry, I have no sympathy at all for drink drivers. No way would I have helped out, may even have called the authorities myself.

Now, if he hadnt been drinking, then its a different story.

Regardless, I think you made the best of a bad decision which had already been taken for you once your friend said "ok". Following was a smart idea.

[rogue]

Bad moves all the way around Ryu. Just on the surface the guy says that he'd been drinking and wrecked his car. What did he hit? Was another car involved? Was it even his car? How many guys abandon their car, you and your friend may have helped a badguy.

The answer to his question should have been "Where's the wreck? You wait here, we'll get you help". If he didn't like that answer tough sheet on him.

[Ford Prefect]

Basically, you did the right thing. I'm a big believer in paying for your crimes, so if he'd been drinking, I'd tell him tough sheet.

I would help another motorist in need though. I would have to be completely comfortable with the situation. I've always been told to listen to my instincts and when there is any doubt then that removes all doubt.

[Former castleva]

Allright...kind of a tough situation once it gets to that level.
To look at this from a "professional " view,taking hitchhikers (well this guy certainly was not but principles remain the same) is not a good idea,at times.
And as previously said by Ford Perfect,if in doubt,it may be for a reason.
I think your best pick if not letting him inside the car would be to remain in the comfort of your car and offer him help by telling that you can make a call to get help (considering he has wrecked his car etc.)
He had already committed some suspicous things like getting drunk,if he is to believe in,and wrecked his car.
Also considering that parking lot is one of popular danger zones of criminals,directly linked to this or not,something to remember of.

[guohuen]

I don't know what the answer is but here's what happened to me in a similar situation.
Iwas traveling down a country highway in a VW beetle in the front passenger side with the driver and a backseat passenger. The car in front of us was weaving eraticly and when off the road head on into a telephone pole totaling the car and knocking all the lines off the pole. We pulled over and got out. The driver's door was smashed and wouldn't open. His window and the windshield were both cracked and covered with enough blood that I couldn't see in. I walked around the front of the car and almost stepped on the 6600 volt powerline that was hissing in the grass between my feet. I was able to pull the guy out from the passenger side by putting my foot against the steering columm. I carried him over to the car and tried to examine him but there was too much blood to see the extent of his injuries so I put him in the back seat so we could get him to the ER right away. As I was sitting down and closing the car door he bolted from the back seat out the door and slammed it on my right ankle and dissapeared into the night woods. Don't know if he ever turned up in a hospital. He put the power out in half of Lewisburg WV and broke my right ankle.

[Budokan]

My best-friend's wife, Patty, was killed by a drunk driver on Valentine's Day, about 20 years ago. My friend was in a coma for a week and he still doesn't walk right. I would have gotten out of the car and dropped the f*ck right there with a ridge-hand strike to his throat, no questions asked. Then I would have hung around and watched him choke to death on his own blood.

However, you did the right thing, short of letting him in the car in the first place. (Which was incredibly stupid; I'm surprised at you, Ryu.) Maybe you could have gotten in the back seat to ride "shotgun" on your friend while the drunk drug-addict was in the front passenger seat...but that's Monday morning quarterbacking. If things got sticky you could have garrotted him from the back seat, thus ridding the world of one more drunk driver.

[Qi dup]

Well, like everyone else I guess I'm not exactly sure what would be the absolute right thing to do here. I deffinatly want to help people though. First thing, I would have asked if he was injured, where the acident was, etc. Basic first aid accident assesment. If we decided to give him a ride, fine. I would get out of the car and let him have my seat, watching for him to make a move. If my instincts were bothering me, I just wouldn't let him in. I know your friend said it was ok, but you can still speak up. So he sits in my seat, and I sit in the back, right behind him. I keep my eyes on him.


This might be a terible idea but this what came to my mind when I was reading your story. I guess your best bet would just be to take off and have nothing to do with him. That's where I usually truat my instincts. If the situation feels bad than it usually is. If not, I guess I'd try to help him out

[KC Elbows]

Frankly, I'm with Ford here. Once it became clear that the man was not hurt, all he faced was the inconvenience of having to get back to the car he abandoned in the first place. In order to avoid an inconvenience, he inconvenienced you and your friend, and created a situation that screamed "sketchy".

I would have worked at vetoing the friend's decision, and explained why. The guy probably would have left before any decision was made, but at least then, the guy knew he was being a jerk.

Drunk drivers.:rolleyes:

[Ryu]

I agree completely with you guys about "helping criminals." I can't stand drunk drivers either, and if I had been the driver, I would never have let him in.

It was my friend who said "okay" (to my surprise) and he was the one who rolled down the window...

This happened very fast, and after the guy got the "okay" he went around to get in the back seat before I could say anything.

This is why I wanted out immediately. I wanted to get a better position outside and worry about my actions first rather then sit there and debate what the "right" thing to do was...

So I got out. Realistically I can't just get out and beat the crap out of someone for no reason (drunk driving doesn't constitute a beating in a court of law...)

So again, do you guys think there was anything I could have done differently? Keeping in mind that it was my "friend" who both okayed the guy's request and let him in the car...

Ryu

[KC Elbows]

As far as that goes, I'd say the two options would be doing what you did, or making the guy get in the front seat so that you could get in the back seat. I think your option is better, though I still would recommend in the future talking your friend out of it if possible.

[Badger]

If you havent already: Talk to your friend about picking up strangers esp. drunk ones.


Drunk Drivers= people who don't give a rats arse about other peoples lives. They only care about their "fun".

[rogue]

Let's see, the guy admitted to driving drunk and leaving the scene of an accident. Right there he would have at least spent the night in the slammer. What else could you have done?

1. Tell your friend to take his keys and get out of the car. Then inform him that by driving this guy home he'll be in hot water with the cops.

2. You should have suggested that the three of you check out the car wreck. There could have been people injured at the scene.

Ryu, I'm disappointed that with all your training that you couldn't just tell your friend that this was a potential bad situation. Were you afraid of hurting someones feelings? The way I see it you guys both helped a creep and a possible felon that night. Sorry if I'm coming down on you but what you and your friend did was just wrong and dangerous.

[Shadowboxer]

I agree with rogue. Your friend shouldn't have agreed in the first place. Both of you should have gotten more info- where was the accident,was anybody hurt, are you hurt, did you call the police, etc to get a feel for if he was on the level or not. You should have talked some sense into your friend, "Hey, you don't know this guy. He could have hurt someone. He's been drinking and driving drunk. I've got a bad feeling about this. Maybe we should call the police." Something to that effect. Maybe you could have told your friend that you didn't think this was a good idea and you would follow in your car to make sure everything would be OK? But like you said things happened quickly. So, I guess you guys were lucky. Any idea what happened to the guy?

[firepalm]

Should have called Bruce on your cell for some advice while your friend was chatting with the druggie!:cool:

[Ryu]

It's okay Rogue, I know you are passionate about it.
I should have asked where the wreck was.... you are correct there.
I guess I was more worried about a possible carjacking then anything else, so I addressed that concern first. I wasn't even fully believing his story anyway.

As far as my "friend" Well he's more or less just a guy I was helping with film stuff. I don't hang out with him, which is why I was initially hesitant about saying "no way" to both of them...

If it had been a close friend, I think I definitily would have.

Well...... experience experience..... so I suppose that is good in itself.

Just goes to show you that what you "think you'd do" in a situation may not be that exact when you actually experience it.

I do take your words with good ears though. :)
I should have gotten more info about his story.

Ryu

[Ryu]

Were you afraid of hurting someones feelings?


Maybe....
Perhaps I've really been hanging with the Japanese too long...
Seriously.

Ryu

[Shadow Dragon]

Personally, I think the sitaution was handled badly by everybody.

Mistake 1: letting the Guy get into the Car.
Mistake 2: driving the Guy across town.
Mistake 3: following the other Car.

They Guy admitted to drinking, wrecking a Car (???) and living an accident scene.
If someone/something was injured/damaged than you are becoming an accessory to a crime or felony.

The Guy said that the Tow-truck was already there to tow his Car and he needed extra cash, etc.
Not sure about in the US, but in all the places I been do they will allow yoy to pay the next day, no problem they got your car in case you don't show up.
What happened to the Guy from the Tow-truck, did he have to wait at the side of the road till the guy comes back with extra cash, unlikely.

All in all the Guys story sounds extremely fishy, and I think that the situation was handled badly.

Atleast you Guys should have verified the story and talked to the tow-truck operator.

Cheers.

[Ryu]

......... Hmm. Actually, I'm going to take something back. I didn't want to stand around and ask questions to this guy because the more I think back on it, I really didn't trust him.

I had a small precaution that he might try to either rob or carjack us, and it was that little poking doubt that wanted me to get away from him quickly and kind of follow him from a distance.

I may not have acted the best here, but I do want to say that all the deciding about whether or not he was really drinking and driving, where the accident was, etc. didn't play into me at that moment. Possible carjacking did....

But again, I do think you guys are right too. Hopefully if another situation plays out to me I'll be able to get some more info.
But my intuition told me to get away from the car at that point... and that's what I did.

Ryu

[Ryu]

One thing's for sure though.

I'm going to start delving into specific criminal mindset studies, specific crimes and situation research, etc. I know quite a bit about basic "street" combat when someone gets up in your face, etc. but I think this made me realize there's more I need to know about specific tactics used by carjackers, etc.
So I'm going to really start studying that more than I was.

Ryu

[rogue]

Live and learn Ryu, at least nobody go hurt. I was raised by and around NYC cops and some of their cynicism rubbed off on me. It's amazing what you can pick up from guys who walked a beat.

I was wondering if you think that all of the scenario training you did got in the way of responding properly? Did it cause you to make assumptions that hid the obvious of what was happening in the situation? Kind of like the profilers telling everyone to look for a 25-35 year old white male in a white van. This is a point that a friend told me about realistic training and I'm wondering how you feel about it.

Now go to your room and read the Gift of Fear 5 times and don't let me see you do this again.;)

Good post Ryu but while your adventures are exciting to read, please take care of yourself.:)

[Royal Dragon]

YOU did the right thing, your friend just helped a drunk who was driving, wrecked his car, and RAN fro the scene. now why do you think he did this?? Because he probably killed someone, or SERIOUSLY hurt them.

Right now, stop what you are doing, and call the cops and tell them the story. Someone is looking for the creep that ruined thier lives.