Shuai chiao Schools

[tjmitch]

Hello all,
I am a little confused about something. Could someone clear up how the shuai chiao lineage works? I have seen several people who are "adopted" sons of Chang Tung Shen, and I also seem to remember a birth son teaching. Also, what other schools are there? And last but not leaast is this one of those kung fu lineage arguments that goes on forever, or it is pretty cut and dry: Instructor A taught instuctor B and C, B and C teach at their own schools?

Thank you for any info

[Water Dragon]

If you learned from Chang, or one of his students, and can throw people, you're legit. The art is about results, not lineage. No matter what some people may say.

[tjmitch]

I agree completely, and am not interested in "my instructor's uncles father was <insert name>" but I am just curious about this adopted son thing. Also, is there a ground fighting component to the art, or is it throws only? I have seen a competion at a tournement and It looked like throws only.

thanks again

[MonkeySlap Too]

Shuai Chiao as Chang taught it is throws only.

The whole adpted son / lineage thing is only really understandable in the context of Chinese culture. The good thing is, at least with Shuai Chiao, is that proof is in the pudding. It is one of the few CHinese styles that offer a form of relatively safe sparring that does not strip it of combat effectiveness.

The Shuai Chiao groups do bicker a lot. One that does not bicker, but simply offers solid instruction is the ACSCA see "CombatShuaiChiao.com"

Or you can go to the Yahoo Shuai Chiao board and have your questions answered by the masters on that board.

[GGL]

With MS too.. you will encounter a lot of "I am a adopted son" of blah.. but as any instructor you need to do your research on him or her. Chang did teach a lot of people, but only a handful were acceptable in teaching. I have also seem many schools who say they teach Shuai Chiao and throw buzz words to make them seem legit.. but they refer to Shuai Chiao as only the "throw" aspecto or just a generic name for throws and they are limited at that.. Shuai Chiao embodies a complete art. Our main function is to set up the opponent with punches or kick and them move in for the kill.. as always.. you can give or absord with punches and kicks, but the ground isn't forgiving at all.. and when refering to the ground game.. after the opponent is on the ground, punches are utilized in a efficient way.. locks are good, but tearing is better on the ground.. I mean ripping the muscle.. when I throw somebody I usually look for the pec muscle to tear or shoulder locks.. with that being said I have played with BJJ people and they do offer a different aspect of the ground game.. which is still fun and interesting..

There are many Shuai Chiao organizations and MStoo is right they do bicker a lot, but are all after the same cause that is to spread Shuai Chiao in its true form..

Refs: United Stated Shuai Chiao Association
Combat Shuai Chiao Association
World Shuai Chiao Society

now what was the question again??:D

[MonkeySlap Too]

My apologies, I forgot Mr. Pickens, whom I like a great deal.

[tjmitch]

so the asumption is that I throw you hard enough and I dont have to worry about ground fighting, but is the (very real) possiblity of both of us ending up on the ground addressed? Or is that a school by school type of thing?

[MonkeySlap Too]

GGL gave a better description than I did - I should have been paying more attention. What I meant by 'throws' was essentially what he said, I sometimes forget when I am speaking to another audience. Essentially Shuai Chiao does not include sacrifice throws or what the BJJ guys call groundwork.

The limitation is that when you fight another skilled stand up grappler of equal skill, the odds of a finishing throw are significantly reduced. However, anyone else is toast. This analogy could apply to any art that has a specific strategic emphasis - something most arts do have, just the teachers have lost track of it.

Shuai Chiao is highly effective and comprehensive. It's worth putting the time into it.

[PHILBERT]

Whats the URL to the Yahoo board?

[GGL]

You have to hit up Water Dragon for da info.. He is the one to add and remove people.. I think:D

[GGL]

As far as that is concerened.. you are right we want the opponent to take as much impact as possible.. now that is really up to the practicioner.. and the skill... we also look at our atmosphere and look for things we can throw the opponent into.. like cars.. walls or just plain concrete.. hel(L) even trees will work.. something that can't be absorbed to easy.. regular grass or mulch or dirt.. may or may not be efficient.. If you throw a opponent on soft material you have to follow up with kicks and punches.. we do not strive for the mount but wish to break, lock, or tear on the follow up.. that way we can focus on other people in our way..

You ask the question of both of us being on the ground.. Shuai Chiao has a variety of "Ground Down" techniques, but it is mostly strikes or breakes.. or hel(L) a knee or elbow to the groin.. Iron Palm strikes are also utilized.. biting is also a option.. I guess what I am trying to say is to take out your opponent ASAP and get out of there so not to put yourself in more danger

There are also many "come along techniques" which the police here and in other places utilize to bring their opponent with them.. and the is usually locks or sometimes "black hand" techniqies.. Black hand is usually made to really hurt you, and not used in sport.. and yes from experience..they really suck

[SevenStar]

yeah, really suck....

Even though there's no mount in SC like in BJJ, there's something that I guess can be deemed as the "SC mount" which is referred to as the "cage" basically, after you have thrown your opponent, you move in on him, taking up any space between your legs and his body, maybe with a knee on him, adding pressure. from here, you are open to do any additional striking or tearing, and if you have a limb locked from the throw, you can play with the limb by manipulating the lock more, or heck, you can just break it :D