Butterfly Swords, Live blade or Training Blade?

[TwoManSaw]

Hello All

I have a question for those who have, or are currently training in the W.C Butterfly swords. Do you ever train with a live blade or do you stick to the training swords? If you dont or havent trained with a live blade, do you think it matters?
thankyou

[Neurotic]

Well - Considering in Melbourne Australia live butterfly swords are a prohibited weapon, and you need a licence to even own them, I have no choice but to only train with blunt edge swords.

(Until I get my weapon's licence that is)

That being said, the sharp point on them nicks me on occasion...

But seriously - live blade training can be a good thing once you have done some training, and want to get somewhat serious about your weapons.

Being able to deal with the fear of a live weapon is part of being able to master it.

Just gotta be careful.

Neurotic

[Starbuck]

I think you need to train with blunt edge swords when you are learning the form and applications. If I had been learning with sharp swords, I would have sliced up my forearms pretty bad as well as stabbed myself in the groin area a few times. Once you've become competent with them go ahead and get some sharpies.

Another thing is that when you are learning the flipping movements you will drop your swords. A lot. It sucks when you're dropping your supercool $200 sharpened swords on the cement floor all the time. I just started with the $40 cheapo blunt knives.

[Tongue_of_Colibob]

"the flipping movements you will drop your swords"

Wouldnt this be the exact reason why you would not want to flip the swords??????

[teazer]

Wouldnt this be the exact reason why you would not want to flip the swords??????

If I had a nice grip on the handle, I wouldn't plan on letting go for anything less than a standing ovation

[teazer]

Originally posted by TwoManSaw
Do you ever train with a live blade or do you stick to the training swords?

To practice cutting you need a sharp knife to make sure the effect is what you want. Otherwise there's a tendency to club people like it was a stick. That said, you can train that on inanimate objects & reduce the risk of injuring your friends. Attacking someone with sharp knives & having to be concerned about cutting them kinda defeats the purpose IMO.

[Neurotic]

Originally posted by Tongue_of_Colibob
"the flipping movements you will drop your swords"

Wouldnt this be the exact reason why you would not want to flip the swords??????

I believe StarBuck was refering to figure 8 cuts.

(or I could be wrong)

I've never dropped my swords doing figure 8 cuts.

In fact.. now i think about it.. I've never dropped my swords.

Starbuck - what ARE you talking about??? :o)

Neurotic

[teazer]

It would make sense that he's referring to the move where you stick your thumb in front of the hand guard/forward pointing spiky bit, let go of the handle & spin the sword so it ends up reversed with the back of the blade lying along your forearm. Dropping them while practicing this is Very common! Some folks do it in their forms, some don't, some just do it for demos. There are some applications that come to mind, but it takes a stretch of the imagination.

[anerlich]

I have known several very experienced and skilful practitioners who have cut themselves with sharp blades. In one case this led to permanent (though minor) loss of function in a couple of fingers.

OTOH, practicing with blunt blades all the time can result in complacency regading the need to respect the damage a blade can cause.

NEVER use a live blade if there is the remotest chance of hurting someone else with it while you are practising.

At my kwoon we work with FMA/Western style blades etc. It's easy enough to cut yourself with a combat folder with a 4" blade, let alone butterfly swords with blades over a foot long.

Agrguably you don't want a really sharp blade against a wooden weapon anyway, the bade tends to dig in and get stuck. Some have argued that this was a significant reason that Miyamoto Mushashi was so successful with wooden swords agains katana-wielding opponents. Arguably it's just as good to learn to "hack" with swords, as in the real world any improvised short weapon you pick up is unlikely to have a razor edge, let alone a hook.

Both butterfly swords and fighting knives are illegal in Australia, as stated above. That's why Cold Steel and Spyderco "Combat Folders" are sold here as "utility knives".

My lineage doesn't flip the swords either. As related above, it's a fantastic way to lose your weapon and/or stab yourself in the foot. I practise grip changes (sabre to icepick and back, etc) with smaller knives but have significant doubt about the attendant risks with that too.

[TwoManSaw]

Thankyou all for your speedy replies.

I agree with most of what has been said, I am yet to learn the butterfly swords although some of my sihings are currently in the process. What made me think of the question was that my Sifu recently showed us a magnificent pair of swords with live blades that he often trains with. I would have also asked him the same question and still will, but hes away at the moment.
thanks again