Hapkido clips

[TaoBoy]

Peoples,

Here are a few Hapkido video clips - http://www.jinpal.com/GM-Kim-Video-2002-t.htm. I've taken a look through them and some of the demostrations look a little over-dramatic and somewhat impractical. I have no exposure to hapkido - except for some demos I've seen - so I am curious to know if this is all just for show or if it is indicative of the style. Take a look at 'Self Defense Clip 2' to see what I mean.

[TaiChiStorm]

really bad!!!

[Former castleva]

Unfortunately I´m unable to view these clips but happened to check out this site a while ago.
I was a bit confused of how there was such a positive approach towards "flashy"&"high" kicking techniques as site claims,and just look at the pictures.
As far as I remember,grandmaster Kim was a student of Ji Han Jae who was founder Choi´s student.While "original" founder´s style had close relation to jujutsu and more grappling in a certain way,it was Han Jae who first released the name "hapkido" as we know today,he also added a lot of kicks with certain tkd type influence.This explains some of liking towards kicking and stuff (of course this is also an orientation with korean arts generally,but not an enlightening description)
There are many branches of this system and at times with less difference I think but general description of this art is one of very well-rounded in many ways and practicality (no wonder to also have it adopted by military,bodyguards etc.)
In application,I know one high ranked teacher of the art had questioned the practicality of art´s throwing techniques which so far,is only downside I have heard of (which all styles have of course) but don´t know of others having noticed the same,also knowing that influence of aikijujutsu on this style is not minor,and few probably are to question their techniques.

[rogue]

Like any art it has it's good and bad. Some HKD schools that I've seen had flashier kicks than many TKD schools. There is even a case to be made that many of the kicks in modern TKD came from HKD. From what I can tell a good HKD school should integrate the strikes, grappling and kicks into a whole, but I've not seen this in any of the few schools that I've visisted.

[Merryprankster]

All I know is that if he tries to slap a Thai kick like that he'll break his arm.

[Nevermind]

Jackie Chan actually earned a black belt in Hapkido under Master Kim. He also taught Sammo Hung and Angela Mao Ying. Too bad I couldn't open the file. I would have liked to see him in action.

[Former castleva]

Nevermind,yep all of them,and some other stars but don´t know if they studied under this master.
Sammo Hung,I think,ranks hapkido as one of his favourite arts.

BTW,if those clips are not of your liking,you might benefit from checking these out.
http://hapkido.netro.com.au/Main_files/page0005.htm
(high quality)

I think many TKD ppl crosstrain in hkd to improve their skills in SD and areas less used in tkd.

[Nevermind]

True. When I took TKD almost all of our close range self defense were joint locks and takedowns from Hapkido. Funny thing, I am recognizing some of those same techniques in our Chin Na curriculm now that I am studying Kung Fu. I guess it all comes full circle.

[kenso]

The part I find funny is that the intro video states that "Hapkido is a 14th century martial art handed down through the Korean royal family." It also states that Hapkido translates as "the way of power and coordination". My understanding is the the "hap" in hapkido is a korean sounding of the Japanese "Ai" which means harmony. So if you substitute Ai for Hap you get, guess what, Aikido. Hapkido has been documented to be founded by Choi (as noted in a thread above). The general claim is that he learned Daito Ryu Aikijujutsu from Sokaku Takeda, who was the teacher of Morihei Ueshiba, founder of Aikido. There is no documented evidence of Choi ever having taken so much as a lesson from Takeda. Many claim Choi was rescued by Takeda and subsequently became his houseboy, and learned mostly by watching. Be that as it may, most Hapkido that I've seen looks like a conglomeration of (bad) Aikido with (bad) Tae Kwon Do. These videos are a good example of that ilk.
The 14th century korean royal family business really gets my funny bone. It seems a very consistent theme with Korean martial artists that they feel it necessary to find authenticity in claims of age and association with royalty. I guess lineage questions abound for the Chinese arts as well, but at least they have the excuse of actually being old. Hapkido and the other korean martial arts have no such excuse. Maybe its some kind of inferiority complex for being the Asian whipping boy for so long.

[Former castleva]

kenso,may I show you my view?
"The part I find funny is that the intro video states that "Hapkido is a 14th century martial art handed down through the Korean royal family." It also states that Hapkido translates as "the way of power and coordination". My understanding is the the "hap" in hapkido is a korean sounding of the Japanese "Ai" which means harmony "

It is "way of harmony" in both korean and japanese,same meaning.How about completely unrelated art of wado (ryu) karate? Wado also means "way of harmony" if you like that way?
Guess what,different arts with same names.
"the way of power and coordination" is allright,and "way of coordinated power" is even better.

"The general claim is that he learned Daito Ryu Aikijujutsu from Sokaku Takeda, who was the teacher of Morihei Ueshiba, founder of Aikido. There is no documented evidence of Choi ever having taken so much as a lesson from Takeda. Many claim Choi was rescued by Takeda and subsequently became his houseboy, and learned mostly by watching."

Theories vary,even though as you said this one is the most popular.
Before that,Choi was adopted by candy store owner who Choi did not like that all,therefore he escaped and in a way or another,ended up with Takeda and showed his interest in learning martial arts.It must have been very difficult if not impossible in certain cases to get to study in japanese dojo if you were a foreigner (gaijin in japanese) however,it seems pretty clear that Takeda had sympathy for Choi and he managed to study under his wing and learned a lot of aikijujutsu.Choi has said he learned numerous techniques of the art,if not all known in that style.This is kind of a story of the art as told by Choi himself.
Besides this,influence can be seen in technique by one´s own pair of gansei.

"(bad) Aikido with (bad) Tae Kwon Do. "
Aikido and hapkido are sister arts,both founders having studied under the same instructor once and things being like this,deriving stuff from this foundation.
Both arts use similar principles too,differences can be seen of course.

[dezhen2001]

is there any verification of Choi having studied under Takeda? I mean from the Ryu itself or even cross referenced form usheiba Senseis memoirs of training?

:)
dawood

[Former castleva]

Dave,
well this is where recorded history falls short,there is no dense information on takeda-choi relation and stuff in aikijujutsu,much less aikido I think.
Call me naiive but I don´t think Choi was just blowing off steam telling about related matters. :)

[dezhen2001]

what i mean is theres a clear link between Usheiba and Takeda, so why not choi then? Coz most schools have at least a geneaology of people who have mastered the skill and are qualified... :)

dawood

[kenso]

dawood, it goes even further than that. Takeda had clear records of EVERYONE who studied with him. He was an anal retentive record keeper, and nobody was allowed to study with him without placing their seal in his enrollment scroll. He was even known to force people to sign in who just watched. So there is much skepticism from people in the Daito Ryu as to Choi's claim of having studied with Takeda. Especially given that Choi claimed to have studied for several decades, it seems unlikely that Takeda wouldn't have had him sign at least once in all that time. The other bit of skepticism comes from the fact that the technical repertoire of Daito Ryu is not well represented within Hapkido. When I said that what I mostly see in Hapkido is bad aikido plus bad tae kwon do, what I really meant was that I see a lot of shallow technique. I don't see a lot of depth of understanding. Of course I've also seen a lot of bad aikido and bad tae kwon do separately. :D

Now let me address Former castleva:

It is "way of harmony" in both korean and japanese,same meaning.How about completely unrelated art of wado (ryu) karate? Wado also means "way of harmony" if you like that way?
Ai=harmony
ki=energy
do=way
So I guess technically you could read Ai as coordination and ki as power, but it's not a very good translation IMHO. The reason I say this is that the primary use of the term aiki is in harmonizing with the energy of the opponent. Coordination generally implies coordination within oneself. I guess that's what bothered me about that translation. As for Wado Ryu, wa is another beast entirely. Ai as harmony can be read as being in accord. Wa as harmony is generally read as centeredness of being. So it's a very different flavor in my mind than Ai, especially when you have Ai together with ki. Aiki encompasses several concepts, some technical, some philosophical.

[dezhen2001]

kenso: thats what i was meaning and had heard, thanks for clarifying :)

as for ai and wa, they are similar in some respects but denote different things. kenso explained far better than i could try :p

i have seen a little hapkido, and the stuff i have seen seems ot be more like jujitsu with striking than anything else... i guess because Usheiba sensei formulated his aikido AFTER studying daito ryu etc.

dawood

[Former castleva]

Ah,yeah yeah...*assumes Andy Kaufman type facial expression*.
We could ramble on this spelling thing in detail for hours which is probably undesirable though.When I was referring to "coordination" spelling that you,kenso first brought up.
I was mostly talking of korean expression for you never ever hear aikidokas call their art that...but in korean manner,it can be heard and is not even extremely rare.I understand this pretty well as to separate these arts to avoid further confusion is noble.

Besides information on who´s who and did what surrounding hapkido,a thing we are unlikely to receive better information during our lives (next we could discuss whether Ueshiba learned BaGwa and is that where he got his powers...another great mystery) In the end of the day what matters to me most is the art.
And like in virtually any art,there are good and "bad" teachers,I think one ninjutsu teacher put it the best.
"Like in any matters,there will always be people who do it well and those who do not."
Something like that. :)