only nine ounces??!??!

[SevenStar]

By now, most of you know that for the fun of it, I will try new ideas, programs, etc. if they at least *for the most part* seem legit - it's like a hobby of mine. Well, my workplace gym has an onsite nutritionist and I went to see her for diet advice - I fluctuate betwee like 220 and 230 - which makes me the lightest of the super heavyweights in judo and bjj competitions. I'm going to cut down to about 218, so I will be on the heavier end of the heavyweight division.

Anyway, she reccomends this diet where I can have 4 servings of fruit, 4 of dairy (but I can't have whole milk and various other fatty dairy products), 11 servings of grain, 5 servings of veggies and 3 servings of meat. Keep in mind that the sevings are small - one cup of cereal = 1 serving of grain. Meat servings are limited to THREE OUNCES!!!! So, I should only be eating 9 ounces of meat per day, which I frankly think sucks.

I'll let you all know how it goes

[SevenStar]

yeah, that's what I thought too. I'm only 24. I'm guessing she put me on a general program generated by fitness software.

[Qi dup]

There yah go man, buy 11 different boxes of cereal and just eat cereal all day. That suff will make you a sexual tyrannosaurus, just like me.

[David Jamieson]

too much cerials causes gas.

in taoism, this is a no no. You don't want to be losing your chi like that.

for serious Chi Kung/Qigong practitioners, thin the grain intake.

peace

[SevenStar]

thin it? What damage would 11 cups do?

[IronFist]

Are you allowed to eat protein?

:rolleyes: :confused:

IronFist

[Qi dup]

I'm guessing so, seeing as how your allowed to eat meat and dairy.

[IronFist]

My question was sarcasm... only 9 ounces of meat is not much protein at all, especially for a 220lb man.

IronFist

[rubthebuddha]

your work's gym's onsite nutritionist?

i could be presupposing, but that doesn't inspire a lot of confidence. especially suggesting all that carbohydrate and so little room for protein numminess.

i'd scrap that diet and go with what your insight tells you would be the best way to drop a few pounds.

[Ford Prefect]

You need protein to gain strength and/or muscle. No if's, and's. or but's. To lose weight, I'd say it's better to keep your protein intake at least 1g/lbs of bodyweight and limit carbs and calories.

[guohuen]

A little OT but the nutritionist at our local food coop is obese and has bad skin. I disagree with most of what they have written in our newsletter. It's very dissappointing how little most licenced nutritionist I have encountered know. Some of the diet advice is harmfull. I could blame the colleges, but shouldn't common sense reign?

[ElPietro]

If you are just losing this weight for the fight, why not just drop weight like most other fighters do and focus on water weight? You are only trying to lose 2-12 lbs depending on whether you are 220 or 230. Sitting in a sauna and taking a lot of fibre and laxative should do it much quicker. I think following your nutritionists suggestion will allow you to lose the weight as well...unfortunately it's going to be the muscle loss that drops your weight.

Dehydrating obviously isn't the safest thing to do, but if you are talking about just for one day then it's the most common thing. Just rehydrate/carb up after weigh in.

[SevenStar]

It's just an experiment. I know she was full of it on the protein thing though. There's no way I could make it on 9 ounces. My muscles would just fall right off of me like a barrel over niagra falls.

[ElPietro]

Yeah, 9 ounces is going to approximate out to maybe 50g of protein. I am guessing she is going by the little FDA food recommendation list. Good thing to know that people can become certified and then they are probably prescribing turn-key diets based on some laminate card they have in a binder or some crap like that. No point wondering if you are an athlete or if your body has any additional needs a sedentary 150lb male might not have.

[rubthebuddha]

most recommendations that i've found that are flawed come from data like the RDA standards, which suffers from two big drawbacks: it's representationally flawed and archaic.

why it's archaic is pretty obvious, but what i want to point out is that the big flaw with RDA is that it's usually a minimum quantity established to keep people from getting sick due to malnourishment. but many people take these numbers to think that those are the preferred amounts to get, not necessary minimums. 50g or protein will keep my body from cannibalising too much of my own muscle mass if i take a month off from exercise, but most of us here are quite active, and 50g of protein per day will do nothing for growth and only fulfill a majority, but not all, of the amount of protein needed to maintain stasis. try for growth, and you're SOL.

same thing holds true for many micronutrients. if you're active, you need that much more vitamin and mineral intake to keep up.

[ElPietro]

Oops, in my post I said the FDA. I meant the RDA. Unless the RDA is put out by the FDA, in which case I stick with the FDA, but if not, then the RDA. :)

Ps. I agree with rubthebuddha.

[Dragon Warrior]

Well if 9 ounces of meat is 50 grams of protein
4 servings of milk is about 32 grams of protein
4 servings of fruit is about 4 grams of protein
5 sevings of vegetables lets say for arguments sake is about 10 grams of protein(probably more)
11 servings of grains has to be at least 44 grams of protein(probably more).

Adding this all up you get about 140 grams of complete protein. I would say that is more than enough considering all you need is about 1 gram per kilogram of body weight. If you feel like this is not enough, add a turkey sandwich or protein shake to your diet.

[abobo]

Originally posted by Dragon Warrior
I would say that is more than enough considering all you need is about 1 gram per kilogram of body weight.

Sure, if by 1 gram you mean 2 grams.

[Shisio]

If you want to lighten up, laying off of the meat (espcially red), will definately have an effect. I think a small part of it is that heavy meats may just stay in your body longer, not to mention the fat content. I've heard of a lot of no carb diets to lighten up as well, but I wouldn't deprive yourself of more then one food source at a time. As far as protien goes, you can still get a healthy amount from nuts (& peanut butter), beans, milk, and sports bars/shakes. A friend of mine had to lose some weight for a competion, so he didn't eat any red meat, did a lot of aerobic exercise, and here's the kicker, spent an hour after working out in the sanna (spelling?) to get rid of water weight.

[IronFist]

I don't know how true it is but I've heard that red meat does stay in you for a long time... I've heard that some corpses have 10lbs of un digested red meat sitting in their intestines.

Anyone know if this is true or not?

I mean with real info to back it up with, not info from a colonic clinic webpage.

IronFist

[SevenStar]

I've heard that too, but have no proof of it.

RTB - good post.

[Ford Prefect]

Iron,

There's some supplements and you can also use fiber to "clean you out." From experience, I'd have to say it's true that there is a lot of matter that gets left in your intestines. I doubt it's just red meat. After a acycle of fiber or one of those supps, you do feel a difference.

[ElPietro]

Meat has fat in it. Fat slows down the digestion process.

Fat is not bad for you.

Just wanted to add those points.

Also, Dragon Warrior, I think your assessment of protein from grains is off. Regardless...you must only count complete sources of protein, as there are also incomplete sources, which are generally found in fruits, veggies and grains.

[Dragon Warrior]

El pietro

The body can make it's own protein. What you need from food is the essential amino acids, and nitrogen. With these ingredients the body can easily make its own protein.

Of course you can count incomplete sources of protein because when you eat various types of foods, often you are eating complete protein. Very well known examples of this are rice and beans, corn and peas, etc. Each is not a complete protein but when combined with other foods bla bla bla.

Also, why do you think my assessment of the grains is off. I am averaging about 4 grams of protein in a serving of grains. In 11 servings that is about 44 grams. Some grains have more protein per serving.

Also, 3oz's of meat contains 22 grams of protein, so 9 ounces should contain 66. So in his plan there should be much more than enough protein.

IMHO anymore than 100 grams of high quality protein is not needed by the body, even if you work out super hard.

[SevenStar]

yeah, when combined with certain foods, they will form proteins.

you can't really make the assumption you made about meat, because you dont know what meat I'm eating.

1 gram of progtein per pound of bodyweight is fine for maintenance, but if you are trying to gain muscle, 1.5 - 2 is ideal.

[ElPietro]

Originally posted by Dragon Warrior
El pietro

The body can make it's own protein. What you need from food is the essential amino acids, and nitrogen. With these ingredients the body can easily make its own protein.


Your logic is flawed here. Essential Amino Acids are created FROM protein. So protein is broken down into it's amino acid parts. The term essential in dieting means that your body cannot produce it on it's own, so therefore, it's ESSENTIAL that you consume it in your diet. Your body cannot make protein from nothing. It can make protein by combining aminos, but this is a very rare case, and you still would need to somehow get all the amino acids in you that your body doesn't produce.

Remember that protein is a very important macronutrient for your body. It forms the building block of all our tissue. You can survive off pretty much zero carbs, you may get grumpy, sluggish etc, but you will live for the most part. Maybe after a while something will become so depleted that you keel over...but without protein your body will be functioning rather poorly...and if you are actually trying to get stronger, or add muscle you might as well forget about it.

I don't know why people resist protein so much. As if it's bad for you or something. Perhaps they simply don't understand the role each macronutrient plays in your body. All 3 have their place and if you are active you should be consuming a much higher amount of protein than you normally would.

[Dragon Warrior]

El pietro

There are nine ESSENTIAL amino acids that the body cannot produce on it's own. These the body most get from food.

The other 11 amino acids the body produces on it's own from food that you eat. This means that your body can break down the food you eat and form these nonessential amino acids. What you need from protein sources to do this is nitrogen. Your body produces the nonessential amino acids using the nitrogen you get from protein sources in your diet.

What you need from protein is the essential amino acids and nitrogen, it's that simple.

Do you need 2grams of protein for every lbs of body weight, absolutely not.

IMO a 100 grams of high quality protein is more than enough for anybody.

I am not downplaying the role of protein, i know how important protein is. But too much is not good for you either, ecspecially from meat sources. Too much meat can acidify the body, making you suseptible to infections, and bone loss.

[ElPietro]

Originally posted by Dragon Warrior
What you need from protein is the essential amino acids and nitrogen, it's that simple.

Do you need 2grams of protein for every lbs of body weight, absolutely not.

IMO a 100 grams of high quality protein is more than enough for anybody.

I am not downplaying the role of protein, i know how important protein is. But too much is not good for you either, ecspecially from meat sources. Too much meat can acidify the body, making you suseptible to infections, and bone loss.

Ok I don't really care what you need it for...the fact that you need it is the point. You are stating facts that have no relevance with your nitrogen and amino comments. I know what protein is used for...so I don't really see how it matters in this case.

You are free to have your own opinion and eat whatever you want. I disagree with your estimate on how much you need. You have no clue how much someone needs, as I'm sure it's dependent on size. So your fixed amount of 50 or 100g versus someone going by your bodyweight or lean bodyweight...which seems more logical to you? I would certainly love to hear how you figured out this acidity, infection and bone loss BS though. First of all, please tell me how acidity works? Your body automatically works to counter any changes in pH balance so I don't see how this has any impact whatsoever. I guess milk which is basic is bad for you too since it would do the opposite, or citric fruits as they are acidic. Feel free to show me the infection and bone loss stuff too. So many ignorant people really read so many BS statements made by people that read studies and have no clue what they say, or all the BS on this or that is bad. I think there's a study showing every single thing we eat is bad for us...then new research disproves, and vice versa. There is so much red meat propaganda out there it makes me laugh. Oh well...what others eat don't really concern me. Eat your limited protein and mass amounts of veggies and grains and continue being weak and smaller than you are genetically able if you wish...

[Ford Prefect]

I have to agree with EP here. Dragon, it sounds like you may be the victim of some bad information. Don't take my word for it. Do some seriuous research and you will find the truth.

[Dragon Warrior]

I'll think i'll do that El Pietro

You eat 300 grams of protein, ill stick to 100.

I'm suprised that you guys dont know about acidity and alkaline levels in the body. Certain foods we eat can cause the body to become more acidic or alkaline. Citrus Fruits actually digest to become alkaline, but anyway, im not going to talk about this with you since you do not seem interested.



Your body automatically works to counter any changes in pH balance so I don't see how this has any impact whatsoever.

What do you think, that this just magically happens.
When the body is to acidic it extracts calcium from the bones to neutaralize the acidity. That is why green vegatables are so important, they naturally make the body more alkaline. But dont worry about this bull****, i have no clue what im talking about. Keep on eating large amounts of meat and white bread, who needs vegetables and whole grains.

[ElPietro]

Originally posted by Dragon Warrior
i have no clue what im talking about.

Woohoo! We finally agree on something!!! :D


Oh and please don't make foolish assumptions or put words in my mouth. Where did I say anything about only eating meat and white bread? In fact, where did I mention white bread at all? And while I'm at it, when did I say I don't eat vegetables or grains? Perhaps you should actually read what I type instead of think you know what I said. You will learn a lot by doing this. :)

Oh and by the way, I supplement calcium quite a bit. Why, not because of acidity levels, but because heavy weight training will cause an overall increase in bone density, which requires calcium to build. So we could go your route, but I'd rather have strong muscles and strong dense bones that won't be brittle and break in my old age...

[Dragon Warrior]

what kind of calcium do you take??