What do you really want to read in a Kung Fu book?

[Phu Le]

I'm a student of the current head of 'Tung Kong Chow's Family Praying Mantis (Chow Gar Tong Long)...

I've been meaning to have Sifu write a book on Chow Gar as there is really nothing published on our art, so my question is, what do people most want to read about?

An instruction manual?

History book?

Or theories?

See if you can give me a contents list of some sort, or even a book layout you recommend...

Thanks.

Phu Le

[Ao Qin]

Hi Phu Le,

I think that any effort to share your art with others is commendable, and any sincere effort will be well appreciated by others who are interested in Chow Gar, or related arts. You can never know how many lives you may touch through such a publication.

I would vote for a general overview of the art - general principles, philosophy behind it, etc. would be great. There are very few people in these rare southern arts who are enthusiastically sharing their positive visions and knowledge for the future of their styles...

Good luck in this initiative!

[FIRE HAWK]

I would like to see an instruction manual.

[TkdWarrior]

ok a breif intro on Histories(like how the founder inspired n all)
philosophies...telling students about ways to this art...
some instruction text/pics... some applications with principles...
ideas of Master...
n good luck to u n ur sifu...
-TkdWarrior-

[HuangKaiVun]

When I go for books, I look for certain things.

The first thing I want is a history of the style. The reason for that is that without knowing the history, it's hard to figure out why the style exists to begin with.

The second thing I want immediately after that is a history of the author. At the least, I want a history of the most recent practitioners - preferably with photographs. This is because then I can see what the most recent generation is capable of. From a static photo (even headshot), one can tell a lot.

As far as presenting the style goes, I like to see the sets themselves. In general, I prefer to see fundamental basic sets as opposed to highflying advanced sets. I can usually deduce the more complex stuff from the basics, but it can be very difficult to figure out basic stuff from advanced concepts.

No book - or even live teacher - can show every single application of every single move. That's for the student to figure out on his own, at least in traditional kung fu circles. So demonstrations of applications are way down on the list for me.

I think that one very good book out there that one should look at is the "5 Ancestor Fist" by Alexander Co. I'd have preferred them to have photographed the "san chiem" form instead of drawing it, but I still got the idea. I don't agree with everything in the style itself, but I do agree with the manner of presentation.

Also take a look at Joseph Wayne Smith's 3 volume Wing Chun series. That's probably the ideal way of presenting a book, as they show the entire system's fighting sets.

[Sho]

Depends. If I choose a book about a style which is unfamiliar to me, I want emphasis on history and theories. But generally, I'd want to read the author's own opinions and thoughts about the particular style. Pictures and photographs are also very important. I don't like books that have techniques demonstrated (pictures), like the book Drunken Monkey Kungfu by Dr. Leung Ting which I recently bought. I mean, it's okay and good to have couple of pages to get the basic understanding, but enough is enough. Of course if the book is 1000 pages thick, then it's perfectly okay, but I'm talking about books that are more like 250 pages.

[iron_silk]

I was planning on adding my interest but sho pretty much summed up what I was thinking and would be looking into a book.

A instruction manual would be more interesting for someone studying that style already and have a master to direct him already.

Other than that...a book isn't something to learn the style use but rather learn about a system. Much like the theory and history. And perhaps the experience of learning the system.

Good Luck!

[David]

The benefit derived from the book - and its longevity - will be in proportion to its size and depth. If it's done one way then only students will buy it and it'll go out of print but if it's done another way it'll be in the high-street bookshops for years. 1000 pages with 200 photos has a nice ring to it. ;-)

Sigung Ip Shui's book from the 60's was mainly pictures and served as an introductory guide for junior students. Sifu Paul Whitrod translated it into English in the 80's. These books are nothing for the general public to get excited about (except for Fire Hawk, of course). Paul has since written another book (http://www.kalarippayatt.co.uk/news.html) which is now facing its 2nd (or 3rd..!) Christmas unreleased :-(

Good luck!

-David

[Tainan Mantis]

I have a large collection of Chinese MA books.
When buying a book on a style that I don't study I would like to see.
1. applications of moves from a specific form
2. Counters to those apps
3. The form whose apps are being shown
4. framework techniques apps and drills. Those basic techniques that are the essence of the style.

5. History and lineage are interesting, but not knowing the people who wrote the book I am always a little suspicious of the truth.

[Nick Lo]

When I go for books, I look for certain things.

The first thing I want is a history of the style. The reason for that is that without knowing the history, it's hard to pretend like I actually studied it.

The second thing I want immediately after that is a history of the author. At the least, I want a history of the most recent practitioners - preferably with photographs. This is because then I can lay claim to being trained by author and claim to be close with the most recent generation. From a static photo (even headshot), one can claim a lot.

As far as presenting the style goes, I like to see the sets themselves. In general, I prefer to see fundamental basic sets as opposed to highflying advanced sets. Basics work better when hoodwinking unknowing white folk.

No book - or even live teacher - can show every single application of every single move. That's for the student to figure out on his own, at least in traditional kung fu circles. So demonstrations of applications are way down on the list for me. Any true practisioner will peg me as a fraud anyway, so why even try?

I think that one very good book out there that one should look at is the "5 Ancestor Fist" by Alexander Co. This is the next style and master I intend to lay claim to. I'd have preferred them to have photographed the "san chiem" form instead of drawing it, but I still got enough to claim I know it. I don't agree with everything in the style itself, because of course I know better, but I do agree with the manner of presentation, because I have no skill to present myself.

Also take a look at Joseph Wayne Smith's 3 volume Wing Chun series. That's probably the ideal way of presenting a book, as they show the entire system's fighting sets. I have quoted this book countless times in trying to legitamize myself.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[HuangKaiVun]

So Nick, produce something POSITIVE and tell us what you would like to see in a book - or what books you like.

[kungfuyou]

Well I'm not Nick, so I hope this will do.

History and lineage are nice to see. History for one so you can get an idea of how it all started, and lineage so you can actually see a time line of events in the styles history. Obviously, each student will add their own flare to the style. Nice to know that there will be other variations of the same style. All the same, but a bit different.

The philosophy/theories of the style is great as well. What makes this such a usefull art? What are it's key aspects? What does this style show more preference to (i.e. grappling, low kicks, hard blocks, locks and take downs). Along with the philosophy/theory side, show the applications of some techniques, not all, and the counters to the techniques as well. Pictures are far better than drawings.

Form names english and Chinese (or whatever the originating language is) and some pictures to go with these as well. Show a few of the beginning, intermediate, and advanced sets. How may in total, empty hand and weapons. Maybe as far as going to show the effectiveness on the street in a few different situations, parking garage, parking lot, confined area such as a bar or club setting.

Obviously this isn't going to be a lite book.
Take your time with it and make it worth buying!! ;) But I'm sure you will. There are a LOT of styles out there that I would love to read about, but don't have any book information on them.


Best 'o' luck with this venture!!

[kshatriya]

There is an iron ox southern praying mantis book on offer, well 2 in fact if i am correct.

Unfortunately the iron ox uk web site of Eduardo Barrios-Muras at
www.ironoxprayingmantis.co.uk doesnt work. I did a search on amazon.co.uk and :
Iron-ox Praying Mantis Boxing
Eduardo Barrios-Muras
The author, Eduardo Barrios-Muras (Edward@ironoxprayingmantis.co.uk) , 26 September, 2000
An essence of Iron-Ox Praying Mantis Kung Fu basics.

So if you wish you can email him and purchase both his books. Sifu Paul whitrod's book is meant to be at the publishers and we hear great things about the book, either way it will be a fantastic and valuable source of information when it is released.

Good luck with training!


__________________

[GeneChing]

Two thing missing from most every martial arts book:

1. Cite your sources completely. If the knowledge has been passed down your lineage, state it as so.

2. Print the Chinese characters for everything in the text of the appendix - use pinyin too, but since your working with a southern style, your terminology will undoubtably be in Cantonese, so use whatever romanization you use for Cantonese AND include proper pinyin.

[Dercetuas]

Hi Phu Le,

Good to know you are still training. I haven't heard anything from you for a few years. How are things?

One things I liked about my Sifu's book was the historical photographs of past masters and their students within the history and I know other people found this valuable.

Also Chow Gar has some good poetry and internal practises/forms . It would be nice to see some of this as well.

[David Jamieson]

I like kung fu book to be pretty cut and dried instructional manuals.

The best are in Chinese and English (imo) show each and every posture, lay out principles of the motions, application and one form only.

One of my favourite kungfu manuals like this is Wing Lams book "Moi Fa". Really well done kungfu book.

The other types of manuals i like are in the style of Lam Wing Kit's Wing Chun manuals.

Not too big on histories or lineages personally, but I guess if the writer wants to talk about that stuff then that is good.

And definitely if material is borrowed from other sources then state them as in any good research book. This allows the reader to go deeper and find even more material or at least have cross references to gain further understanding.

peace

[Sho]

I agree with Gene. All Chinese terms used in a book should have their Chinese character and a pinyin alternative printed on the appendix. Vaguely written (romanized) Cantonese terms are pretty much of no use to people who are not already familiar with the style's terminology.

[Phu Le]

Well..... one things for sure, my getting my Sifu to write a book containing and fullfilling everyone's expectations is going to be to small task.

I guess, I'll take all the ideas posted, discuss with the students in the school and present an outline to my Sifu, and hopefully work slowly and steadily towards compiling this book.

Thank You for all the ideas.

Dercetuas:

Hi how are you. Me still training? havn't done that for a while, but I'm still around..... Go take a look at the Brisbane, I love the pictures they've uploaded.

Phu Le

[[Censored]]

Check out "Total Aikido". With every set of pictures and instructions on a technique, there is a short list of common mistakes made while performing the technique, why and how to avoid them. A brilliant innovation.